6MT or DCT?

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

No one is going to convince you that you are wrong. It is your opinion, even if it is wrong, and 4 pages of thread have not accomplished anything

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

[Wei718]

For me, I got the manual so my wife can't drive it!

[golovko]

Originally Posted by Jim B

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

One of the things that brought me to consider an M3 after I had started looking at a 535i. No manual option

Originally Posted by Wei718

For me, I got the manual so my wife can't drive it!

haha, one of my reasons too. Although I had insisted on getting the paddle shifters in her X3 so that I could drive it.

[RingMeister01]

The ratios on the 6MT are better.

[derpimpkar]

What if you bought a DCT because you want to drive it around on D1?

I'm also going to drill the front bumper for the European license plate frame.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Jim B

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

You better hope you learn public transport in the next few years as every car will be offered as some form of automatic be it tq convertor or dct.
People tend to resist change and like things to stay the same as familiarity is comfortable, but you can't argue objectively that dct is not superior to a traditional manual in every way .
Subjectively you can state that a manual is more involved driving , better feel, nostalgia, ease of maintenance, but that is all preference and will differ among drivers and needs.
As CAFE standards continue to rise and more consumers want more Tech in their luxury and performance cars , the replacement of MT with DCT completely will be a matter of time in the next few years.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by FC4

Of all the threads you post in and subsequently ruin, you make one normal post in this one then leave? C'mon now...start talking about the color of your dog's poop or your usual inane banter to round up all the simple ones and fade this thread to nothingness.

Thanks.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

you can't argue objectively that dct is not superior to a traditional manual in every way .
Subjectively you can state that a manual is more involved driving , better feel, nostalgia, ease of maintenance, but that is all preference and will differ among drivers and needs.

No one on here has argued that the 6MT is better and all have agreed that it is indeed a preference. It is a preference that I have and it does not make me some kind of neanderthal that is unwilling to accept change. BMW offers a choice.

[Falafel Combo]

Picking up my glorified automatic M3 tomorrow! Wo-hoooo! Weeee! Can't wait to join the ranks of the poser 6MT owners! It will be glorious!!! Zapa-dee-daaaa!!


PS: does anyone have a link to that thread about posers driving around in cars equipped with on board navigation systems?

[Falafel Combo]

PS: very generous of everyone here to entertain this fellow so far. Either that or ... Oh wait, it's sunday. Ok.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

This thread is dumtarded. It's like trying to convince someone why blue is your favourite color.....and why it's "better" than red......

After reading the trolls op and subsequent posts and then all the futile attempts by respected (and other ) members to reason or debate with it, it made me wish I could officially 'Appreciate' your post more than once.

[Doctor///M]

"glorified automatic"

Stick with theE92 OP.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by Projectile

"Because it's more engaging or fun" - right?

But if the 6MT in the M4 rev matches for you, then what you call "engaging" is just going through the motions, and what you call "fun" is, embarrassingly, just posing. I suppose you still have to launch the car, but that's a small fraction of the engagement and fun of driving a MT.

Sure, you can turn the rev matching off, but from what I've read in other threads around here, you can't do so without also accepting a throttle map that is hyper sensitive. I bet that most people rarely use this feature.

If BMW had made it possible to turn rev matching off/on no strings attached, then this could be a real 6 MT, but otherwise, it seems like a glorified automatic, and the DCT makes much more sense. The only motion you have to go through is pulling a paddle which'll be much faster.

I'm not a troll. This is really where I'm at in my thinking about the M4 transmission. I had a DCT e92 and I traded it out for one with a 6MT because I wanted a more engaging and fun car. But when contemplating what M4 to get, I think I might get the DCT. Or just stick with my e92.

The rev matching feature is actually pretty nice. There nothing poser about it. Either you can't heel/toe or you can. This car won't change that, but it will allow you downshift smoother anyway.

The 6MT is fantastic in this car. Get the DCT if you want, but don't just do it because you think this 6MT is no good.

[GarlicBun]

Originally Posted by Projectile

"Because it's more engaging or fun" - right?

But if the 6MT in the M4 rev matches for you, then what you call "engaging" is just going through the motions, and what you call "fun" is, embarrassingly, just posing. I suppose you still have to launch the car, but that's a small fraction of the engagement and fun of driving a MT.

Sure, you can turn the rev matching off, but from what I've read in other threads around here, you can't do so without also accepting a throttle map that is hyper sensitive. I bet that most people rarely use this feature.

If BMW had made it possible to turn rev matching off/on no strings attached, then this could be a real 6 MT, but otherwise, it seems like a glorified automatic, and the DCT makes much more sense. The only motion you have to go through is pulling a paddle which'll be much faster.

I'm not a troll. This is really where I'm at in my thinking about the M4 transmission. I had a DCT e92 and I traded it out for one with a 6MT because I wanted a more engaging and fun car. But when contemplating what M4 to get, I think I might get the DCT. Or just stick with my e92.

Can't believe its already 5 pages...
IMO....
i love the clutch with rev match, so nice
i love that i save $2900
i love the shift knob in leather better

so just stopping being a troll even though you already became one....

[rubber_ducky]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread (other than trolling). If the only enjoyment that you get from driving an MT comes from rev matching, and the F8x cars take that away from you, what do you think this thread is going to do for you? Get a DCT and move on. Do you think that the responses written here will magically make using a clutch pedal and a gated shift lever while not rev matching fun for you?

Well before my now wife became my wife, she went to a dealership and bought herself a MT car. She loves rowing her own. Sometime after her and i met, i picked up an MT e92 335i. I taught her about rev matching and H/T. She knew nothing about them. In other words, get ignorance toward rev matching and H/T had no impact on the enjoyment that came from having an MT.

Go buy yourself a DCT car for whatever reasons float your boat. And if you feel compelled to share those reasons, just post in one of the thousands of 6MT/DCT that already exist. Then try to accept the fact that people like my wife buy MT cars for reasons that don't 100% mirror your own.

[DandyKing]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I am beginning to doubt your ability to actually drive a manual, in all seriousness. If pushing the clutch in, changing gears, determining the appropriate throttle and letting the clutch out (whether rev matching or not) requires no skill, then why do so many people not know how to drive a manual correctly vs. an automatic/dct? Rev matching is just one 'going through the motions' skill which is really only mandatory on the track or braking abruptly.

You sir are, indeed, a troll. You know perfectly well you are perpetuating unfounded thoughts against the common well-established knowledge/experience of the collective thought which is the definition of a troll. Please stay out of manual cars.

[Colinv6]

Crazy how times change, you guys over the pond have always been known for driving mainly Auto cars, and yet it seems now that everyone on here wants 6MT, over here I'd say that 90% or even higher of M3/4 are DCT, any cars sitting in dealers with 6MT just sit there, prices getting slashed weekly because nobody wants them over here.

[oldkingdom]

Originally Posted by HokieM4

I have a DCT M4 and I think it's amazing on the track and in rush hour traffic. It's the in between the two where the manual can be more fun. I think most people that get the manual enjoy going through the motions and that's what makes them feel more engaged. Simply just a preference; nothing poser about it IMO.

Same boat. I miss it a LOT in between... But only in between.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

This thread is dumtarded. It's like trying to convince someone why blue is your favourite color.....and why it's "better" than red......

Dumtarded! Love it!

"But, but ... DUDE! Don't you get it? They don't make red like they used to ..."

[fueledbymetal]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Crazy how times change, you guys over the pond have always been known for driving mainly Auto cars, and yet it seems now that everyone on here wants 6MT, over here I'd say that 90% or even higher of M3/4 are DCT, any cars sitting in dealers with 6MT just sit there, prices getting slashed weekly because nobody wants them over here.

Times haven't changed - the most US drivers have no idea how to work a manual transmission. We fortunately have a small but vocal enthusiast base that keeps the manuals alive. Manual may not be as fast as the latest autos but it's still way more fun

[captainaudio]

I believe that a rather high percentage of the M3/4 owners who are getting the DCT know how to drive an MT and either have owned cars with MTs in the past or currently own one or more cars with an MT. On many very high performance cars such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Porsche GT3,etc. MTs are not offered.

I know a number of drivers who own (street) cars with DCTs who are experienced and successful racers. I find it somewhat amusing when someone implies that these drivers who have competed (and in some cases won) at LeMans, Sebring, Daytona 24 Hours, Indy 500 etc. are not real enthusiasts.

I also think that the DCT is viewed differently by drivers who are experienced with manual transmissions as opposed to drivers who have never driven an MT and are used to putting an AT into drive and taking off. Experience driving an manual teaches you what a transmission is for and how to keep the engine in the proper RPM range. This knowledge is very useful when driving a DCT or AT in manual mode.

I don't feel that I have a lack of control when driving either a DCT or a ZF 8 speed for that matter as the transmission can be placed in manual mode and gears can be selected. The AT and DCT will override the driver if something dumb (lug or overrev the engine) is attempted but otherwise the driver has control of what gear the car is in,

When I ordered the M4 I seriously considered the MT but quite frankly the fact that the rev matching could not be turned off in all modes was a big turn off. I found the feature annoying. I always heel and toe and rev match downshifts on an MT. I have been doing it for years, it is second nature now and I do it regardless of how fast or aggressively I am driving. I suppose it is possible to code it off but the rev matching was definitely a factor in my decision to go for the DCT. I know that many here like the rev matching, which is understandable, but it is definitely not for me.

All of that being said I hope BMW continues to offer MTs in the future and I respect the choice of those who prefer them as I respect the choice of those who opt for the DCT.

CA

[Projectile]

Lots of people chime in and say that they like the rev matching feature. I strongly suspect that most MT owners use it most if not all of the time. And why not? I've driven it and it makes up- and down-shifts very smooth - perfect every time. Some comment about how badly they seem to shift with it turned off, which I also experienced when I test drove the F8x 6MT. (Of course, I'm better in my e926MT b/c I'm so used to it).

But that's precisely the issue that I raised in my post. If you like manual shifting because a computer makes it easy and smooth, then all you're really doing is pulling a lever and moving your foot most of the time. Why not just pull a paddle?

A rev-matched 6MT is getting close to a DCT. Don't freak out: I didn't say that it IS a DCT, or that there's no relevant difference with a DCT, or that it's not manly, but it is less engaging and in that sense, more like a DCT.

What I'm saying is that a rev-matched 6MT makes the choice between 6MT and DCT more difficult because if one is after engagement with the vehicle, having a computer match revs for you removes perhaps the most engaging thing about a MT. Moving an extra pedal and a gear lever becomes more "going through the motions" rather than using your skill to make the car do precisely what you want it to do. The skill of moving a third pedal and a lever is hardly worth mentioning compared to the skill required to pull a paddle.

Of course, having the computer rev match for you and making the experience "the best ever" can be fun. I would never deny what one considers subjectively fun. But my point is that, for me, some of that fun and so-called "engagement" would be lost in the knowledge that what the car in fact sounds like, feels like, and is doing is because of a computer, not me. A few others have had this insight in this thread, too.

We can have fun while experiencing illusions. Many of us do that all the time in other contexts. The Matrix can be a great place and some of us would choose the blue pill while others would choose the red. That doesn't mean that it isn't an interesting choice.

Yes, rev-matching can be turned off, but not without paying a price - a price that it seems most are not willing to pay. Judging by the responses in this long thread, it seems that most people don't drive in Sport+ much if at all ...

I guess I'm just wondering if I'm going to let a computer take away what seems to me to be the truly engaging component of a MT, why not let the computer give my left leg and my right arm a rest, too? Doing so also provides a fast, more efficient, and versatile transmission...

If you think that my raising these points makes me a troll, then you're the one who should grow a thicker skin. If a car forum isn't about discussing these kinds of issues (how transmissions are evolving and what effect they have on our appreciation of and interaction with a vehicle), then perhaps you're just here to have your subjective impressions coddled. And just because we have subjective impressions doesn't mean that we can't have a conversation about how legitimate they may be nor how auto manufacturers may try to manipulate them. Reflecting upon our subjective impressions can change them.

Reflecting upon our experiences and sharing them while seeking out others is what the journey is all about, isn't it?