6MT or DCT?

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

So the best part about owning a stick is so you can impress some ignoramous in a parking lot?

When I said "the best part" it was satire brah

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by m34m

Here's the real question: why are people's egos so connected to manual transmissions? Clearly this is an insecurity issue. Folks it doesn't diminish your manhood to choose a DCT. How's this for a statement: I love BOTH !!!!!!!!! Would drive either any time any place.

That's the most idiotic statement that I have read in a long time!! I guess my wife's manhood is threatened by the fact that she chooses a 6MT over DCT?? Our choice of 6MT had absolutely nothing to do with egos or insecurity!!

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

That's the most idiotic statement that I have read in a long time!! I guess my wife's manhood is threatened by the fact that she chooses a 6MT over DCT?? Our choice of 6MT had absolutely nothing to do with egos or insecurity!!

Leave your wife out of this. He's a very nice guy.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Leave your wife out of this. He's a very nice guy.

Yes, SHE is.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

That's the most idiotic statement that I have read in a long time!! I guess my wife's manhood is threatened by the fact that she chooses a 6MT over DCT?? Our choice of 6MT had absolutely nothing to do with egos or insecurity!!

A little more honesty on this forum would be refreshing. Didn't mean to offend your wife who I'm sure is a brilliant heel and toe driving, rev matching genius. It's all "second nature" for her I'm sure. Why can't you just admit in a stone cold honest way that many MT loyalists both on this forum and in general look down on and are condescending towards those who choose DCT. If it's not insecurity then what? Arrogance? Is that better? My points are simple: 1) to each their own 2) most MT drivers really stink at it whether they admit it or not and a strong dose of humility is in order.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by m34m

A little more honesty on this forum would be refreshing. Didn't mean to offend your wife who I'm sure is a brilliant heel and toe driving, rev matching genius. It's all "second nature" for her I'm sure. Why can't you just admit in a stone cold honest way that many MT loyalists both on this forum and in general look down on and are condescending towards those who choose DCT. If it's not insecurity then what? Arrogance? Is that better? My points are simple: 1) to each their own 2) most MT drivers really stink at it whether they admit it or not and a strong dose of humility is in order.

I guess I just travel in the wrong circles, because in my circles no one "looks down on and are codescending toward" anyone regardless of their choice of transmission. And when did it become a requirement to be a "brilliant heel and toe driving, rev matching genius" to select the 6MT option. DCT or 6MT is an option that BMW offers. It should not matter to anyone what someone chooses and should not be taken as a statement of the person's state of insecurity or arrogance - that is absurd!!!

[Krish_1]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I guess I just travel in the wrong circles, because in my circles no one "looks down on and are codescending toward" anyone regardless of their choice of transmission. And when did it become a requirement to be a "brilliant heel and toe driving, rev matching genius" to select the 6MT option. DCT or 6MT is an option that BMW offers. It should not matter to anyone what someone chooses and should not be taken as a statement of the person's state of insecurity or arrogance - that is absurd!!!

Seconded. I don't judge someone for their choice of transmission. I find it absurd when someone judges 6MTs a poser transmission, or a DCT with condescension.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Krish_1

Seconded. I don't judge someone for their choice of transmission. I find it absurd when someone judges 6MTs a poser transmission, or a DCT with condescension.

I find it absurd as well but every time there is an MT vs AT discussion there seems to be posts like this,

Grow some balls and buy a Manual.

I enjoy the manipulation of the car I'm driving with both hands and feet. If I want to text and drive, i'd get Dct. Lol

A DCT will never replace a true car enthusiasts fun factor/respect from others.

Never.

And before you give 1009292039 reasons as to why a DCT is better... All I need is one.

"Yeah but it's not a manual"

[zhangzeyuandss]

Having Had both 6MT and DCT... I can only say I missed the third pedal. But often time I felt kind of relieved. Because let's be honest, nowadays most people don't even know how to drive a manual. Let us say if you have something happened that you want someone else to take your car, or you got tired and want your spouse to drive a little bit. If you lived in a big city often time you would just be sitting in traffic shifting from first to neutral and to first again which is a major pain in the butt. The most satisfaction I get from driving a 6MT is the feeling when you banging through all the gears or nailing a perfect heel toe downshift. Let us be honest, normally in city driving doesn't happen that much. If you live in rural area. By all means pick the 6mt, if you lived in the city. I personally think DCT is more practical, but none of these choices is about ego or being condescending. It is a pure personal choice. I knew some people despite living in the city still enjoy 6MT and not be a smug about it..

[m34m]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I guess I just travel in the wrong circles, because in my circles no one "looks down on and are codescending toward" anyone regardless of their choice of transmission. And when did it become a requirement to be a "brilliant heel and toe driving, rev matching genius" to select the 6MT option. DCT or 6MT is an option that BMW offers. It should not matter to anyone what someone chooses and should not be taken as a statement of the person's state of insecurity or arrogance - that is absurd!!!

Absurd? Absurd you say? If this issue is so benign is that why we are on page 46 of this thread? 46!! If you don't judge good for you, you are indeed superior. Too bad you don't represent the norm.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I find it absurd as well but every time there is an MT vs AT discussion there seems to be posts like this,

Thank you captainaudio for providing a sampling of evidence. By the way I drive a MT in case some of you think I am defending DCT. Despite this I am man enough to admit my MT skills are average at best. I also recognize the annoying attitudes of many MT drivers.

[rr006rbc]

Driven both the DCT and the 6MT in the F80/82 both alike. I honestly think the engine is mated a little better with the 6MT.

The E92 M3 however I felt like the DCT felt more proper in that car. It seemed to shift effortlessly and at redline shifts the transition into the next gear felt GREAT and not abrupt and violent as the F8X DCTs. But I'm sure the absurd amounts of torque in the S55 plays a part in that. The clutch feel on the F8X cars are simply awesome. Just enough resistance and the engagement point is perfect for easy everyday driving or redline shifts.

On the E92 6MTs it seemed like the throttle didn't respond as well and getting the money shifts into the next gear were tougher due to the "weightless" feedback from the clutch. It reminded me of the clutch in my '95 Integra to be honest. My E92 6MT 335i had better feedback and clutch feel than the E92 M3 did.

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I find it absurd as well but every time there is an MT vs AT discussion there seems to be posts like this,

Then you have someone like this who tags 3 ppl and makes no point in the post

You're like DCT...

[solstice]

The most absurd notion in here is likely the one that one have to be a master of something to find it enjoyable. Man, there would be a lot of miserable faces in ski slopes and golf course for example if that was true when instead I see the biggest smiles from people just starting out. So what if someone rides the clutch or miss judge a heal toe, they can still have more fun than they would with an auto/DCT. The key word is "could" since it's up to each and everyone of us to decide what we like the best and run with it.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by m34m

Thank you captainaudio for providing a sampling of evidence. By the way I drive a MT in case some of you think I am defending DCT. Despite this I am man enough to admit my MT skills are average at best. I also recognize the annoying attitudes of many MT drivers.

I have a DCT in my M4 and had "traditional" planetary gear ATs in my 335i, Jaguar XKR and my 750Lix. Prior to that all of my road cars since I was 18 were manual transmissions.

I regularly drive cars with a wide variety of transmissions including DCT, AT, Sequential Racing Transmissions (with three pedals), fully synchomesh manual transmissions and manual racing transmissions with no synchros and straight cut dog gears that have to rev matched and double clutched. I find that my enjoyment of these cars is usually in spite of the transmission rather than because of it.

IMO if you are truly involved with high performance driving techniques operating an MT is one of the easiest skills to master. I can shift an MT as well as many drivers I know who are faster than me around a track.

A while back I asked one of the racing coaches who taught me how to heel and toe what he thought of the DCT in the M3 pace car he drives at Lime Rock. His answer was "It shifts better than I can". Well if it shifts better than he can it sure as hell shifts better than I can.

It is unfortunate that so many of these MT vs AT discussions evolve into pissing contests and in many cases instruction manuals for poor driving techniques.


CA

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by solstice

The most absurd notion in here is likely the one that one have to be a master of something to find it enjoyable. Man, there would be a lot of miserable faces in ski slopes and golf course for example if that was true when instead I see the biggest smiles from people just starting out. So what if someone rides the clutch or miss judge a heal toe, they can still have more fun than they would with an auto/DCT. The key word is "could" since it's up to each and everyone of us to decide what we like the best and run with it.

I don't think that you have to be a master of an MT to enjoy it. But if you are not a master you are not in much of a position to look down upon or ridicule DCT drivers many of whom are very skilled at driving MTs. I think that is the point that is being made. It's sort of like criticizing NASCAR drivers because they drive on oval tracks. Can you (the general "you" not any "you" in particular) get around Daytona as fast as Jeff Gordon? I sure as hell can't.

I would never dispute someone's preference it is the "Chicktronic", "Autotragic", "Nobody Respects DCT drivers", "DCT drivers want to text and drive". comments that I find rather silly. I personally don't take them seriously because in the motorsports circles that I am involved in nobody takes statements like that seriously but I can understand that many would find such statements offensive.


CA

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

Then you have someone like this who tags 3 ppl and makes no point in the post

You're like DCT...

I am like DCT, Cutting edge and blindingly fast.


And you're like MT. Obsolete but unwilling to come to grips with it.

Only kidding, only kidding!

[solstice]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I don't think that you have to be a master of an MT to enjoy it. But if you are not a master you are not in much of a position to look down upon or ridicule DCT drivers many of whom are very skilled at driving MTs.

I think that is the point that is being made. I would never dispute someone's preference it is the "Chicktronic", "Autotragic", "Nobody Respects DCT drivers", "DCT drivers want to text and drive". comments that I find rather silly. I persojnally don't take them seriously because in the motorsports circles that I am involved in nobody takes statements like that seriously but I can understand that many would find such statements offensive.


CA

I think a lot stem from the misunderstanding of some that it's all about what is the better transmission when for the MT driver it doesn't matter if the DCT shifts better. The auto/DCT remove an activity that the MT driver find enjoyable there's no way around that. It will always remain a trade-off independent of how good the DCT shifts. Now, how you rate the pros and cons is personal but the DCT will never be a full substitute for an MT.

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

And your like MT.

Obsolete but unwilling to come to grips with it.

Only kidding, only kidding!

I'll take that as a compliment. Rare but highly desired... ahaha

[captainaudio]

Touche!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by solstice

I think a lot stem from the misunderstanding of some that it's all about what is the better transmission when for the MT driver it doesn't matter if the DCT shifts better. The auto/DCT remove an activity that the MT driver find enjoyable there's no way around that. It will always remain a trade-off independent of how good the DCT shifts. Now, how you rate the pros and cons is personal but the DCT will never be a full substitute for an MT.

I agree and I understand that that may be the case for you and many others but it is not the case for everyone.
In my case when I was ordering the M4 I had a 'Been There, Done That" attitude toward the MT and thought I would give the DCT a try and see how I liked it. Hopefully when I replace it in 3 years the options for an MT will still be there but I suppose that in a sense if I am not part of the solution I am part of the problem.

So now that I think about it I encourage everyone to reject DCTs and buy MTs to ensure that there will be enough demand and they will still be offered in 3 years in case I don't like the DCT.

I already found at least one thing I don't like about the DCT. In my garage in Manhattan I have to get the front of the car very close to the wall. It is difficult to smoothly creep up slowly with the DCT. It was easier with the Steptronic in my 335i which was not as easy as my Lexus SC300 5 Speed.

So if you see a post by me praising the virtues of MTs and cursing DCTs it probably means that I smacked the M4 into the garage wall.

[rubber_ducky]

Originally Posted by m34m

Absurd? Absurd you say? If this issue is so benign is that why we are on page 46 of this thread? 46!! If you don't judge good for you, you are indeed superior. Too bad you don't represent the norm.

This thread has had recent activity in it because a moderator merged another thread, in which the original poster called 6MT drivers posers in his original post. That thread was at least 6 pages long when it was merged.

Personally, i couldn't care less what car/engine/transmission anybody drives and i do agree that some of the comments are juvenile. But those comments don't come purely from one side of the MT/DCT divide.