6MT or DCT?

[Fjk]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I agree and I understand that that may be the case for you and many others but it is not the case for everyone.
In my case when I was ordering the M4 I had a 'Been There, Done That" attitude toward the MT and thought I would give the DCT a try and see how I liked it. Hopefully when I replace it in 3 years the options for an MT will still be there but I suppose that in a sense if I am not part of the solution I am part of the problem.

So now that I think about it I encourage everyone to reject DCTs and buy MTs to ensure that there will be enough demand and they will still be offered in 3 years in case I don't like the DCT.

I already found at least one thing I don't like about the DCT. In my garage in Manhattan I have to get the front of the car very close to the wall. It is difficult to smoothly creep up slowly with the DCT. It was easier with the Steptronic in my 335i which was not as easy as my Lexus SC300 5 Speed.

So if you see a post by me praising the virtues of MTs and cursing DCTs it probably means that I smacked the M4 into the garage wall.

Isn't there a creep mode? I mean, for creeping, not creepers.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fjk

Isn't there a creep mode? I mean, for creeping, not creepers.

There is but it's mainly for stop and go. It clutches out when you get on the brakes at such low speed and then you need to re-activate with the throttle and so on. It takes some getting used to compared to a slush box where you just need to use the brakes to fine-tune. You do get used to it though and it's not something I thought about after a short while with my DCT. The DCT don't really have any significant flaws IMO but it's very different from driving an MT. Different but also a good choice.

[CanAutM3]

Man, this thread...

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by solstice

There is but it's mainly for stop and go. It clutches out when you get on the brakes at such low speed and then you need to re-activate with the throttle and so on. It takes some getting used to compared to a slush box where you just need to use the brakes to fine-tune. You do get used to it though and it's not something I thought about after a short while with my DCT. The DCT don't really have any significant flaws IMO but it's very different from driving an MT. Different but also a good choice.

Torque converters are very good device for smooth starts. There are a few manufacturers who are combining torque converters with DCT gearboxes. The torque converter is locked up once the car is in motion but that's the case with most modern planetary gear automatic transmissions as well.

CA

[goliathonline]

Simply put, with a manual transmission you actually have to learn to drive the car. A DCT is just an overpriced nanny ladies and gentlemen. Might as well get one of those Tesla's that will steer the car for you too.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by goliathonline

Simply put, with a manual transmission you actually have to learn to drive the car. A DCT is just an overpriced nanny ladies and gentlemen. Might as well get one of those Tesla's that will steer the car for you too.

And my point is made....nah that's not
condescending or prickish at all! And yet there are those on this thread and forum who continue to argue and debate that MT proponents are perfectly objective! Ok folks let's call it a day on this thread, we're getting nowhere.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by goliathonline

Simply put, with a manual transmission you actually have to learn to drive the car. A DCT is just an overpriced nanny ladies and gentlemen. Might as well get one of those Tesla's that will steer the car for you too.

Of course a rockstar like you doesn't need nannies, it's all just raw talent right pal?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by goliathonline

Simply put, with a manual transmission you actually have to learn to drive the car. A DCT is just an overpriced nanny ladies and gentlemen. Might as well get one of those Tesla's that will steer the car for you too.

Simply put anyone that thinks that a DCT car drives itself is somewhere beyond clueless about high performance driving techniques.

Oh, wait!

Your on Mars.

Now your post makes sense,

[NewM3driver]

Just an observation. Every time I get into a new PDK porsche and drive it I can't get comfortable with the car. Then I get in a similar car with the manual tranny it's like AAAHHHHH!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Just an observation. Every time I get into a new PDK porsche and drive it I can't get comfortable with the car. Then I get in a similar car with the manual tranny it's like AAAHHHHH!

Like most technologies it takes some time to acclimate and there is a learning curve. I'm still struggling with left foot braking. It feels totally unnatural after years of using my right foot for the throttle and the brake. One problem with left foot braking in the M4 is the small brake pedal that is offset to the right. I am in the process of installing a larger brake pedal from an AT that reaches farther to the left.

CA

[rubber_ducky]

Originally Posted by Projectile

But surely you see how having a computer do the hard part, while one just mechanically pushes a pedal and a lever, can be considered "posing".

How many 6MT drivers around here downshift into 1st as they approach a crowded red light only to have the computer throttle blip perfectly so that when they let the pedal out, they get a perfect shift, and everybody notices the cool dude driving the manual, now gently revving the throttle at idle, and launching as the light turns green? Posing. You know it happens. And you know that downshift wouldn't have happened, and surely wouldn't have been very smooth, had it not been rev matched.



All I have argued is that part of what makes an MT engaging, perhaps the biggest part, has been lost in a rev matching MT. Notice that I have NOT argued that a rev-matched MT is not even the tiniest amount more engaging than a DCT. Only that a rev matched MT is getting closer to the disengagement of a DCT. Regardless of how may cars you've driven in the past (pedigree carries such little weight in these discussions and honestly ends up looking a little lame and embarrassing) can you really argue with that?

LOL @ pedigree. I was really trying to impress you when I mentioned my GTi.

I mentioned the fact that I owned two dual-clutch autos before jumping back into to an MT to show that I'm not an MT die-hard that isn't willing to try other things. But I did, in fact, revert to a "slower" transmission because, despite the auto rev-match, I have more fun in an MT car.

But to address your comment about rev-matching getting "closer to the disengagement of a DCT"?... yes and no IMO. Nothing is preventing an F8x MT driver from rev-matching themselves in any mode. Will the computer "true up" the revs if you don't stab the throttle enough in Eco and sport modes? Yes. Does this mean that you should stop rev-matching all together? Who am I to say? I do know that I got lazy pulling paddles in my recent autos. Will I get lazy rev-matching on this car knowing that the computer will do it for me? Not yet, but probably.

Clearly you feel that the rev-matching is the involvement tipping point for going full auto. But this isn't everybody's tipping point (it obviously wasn't mine),and this seems to be what you're not able to accept.

p.s. I don't know where you live/drive, but where I live "everybody notices the cool dude driving the manual" isn't a thing. I read posts here about drivers of white M3s and M4s getting thousands of thumbs-up per mile and bystanders breaking their necks as they try to catch a glimpse of these cars. Not in my world. People couldn't care less. That said, who exactly am I posing for?

p.p.s. I think that I understand why the people at BMW turned rev-matching off on a single throttle mapping so you won't hear me complaining about that. Is sport+ the right setting for this? For me... I'm not sure yet. I haven't spent enough time in all of the throttle mappings. If this car were perfect (it isn't), BMW would allow you to choose which one throttle setting doesn't rev-match.

[captainaudio]

I am able to accept whatever transmission choice anyone else wants to make since it has absolutely no effect on me.

I was seriously considering getting an MT but when I test drove one I found the rev matching to be very distracting. Heel and toe and blipping the throttle is totally ingrained and the auto rev matching threw my rhythm off.

Granted this was a 20 minute test drive and in no way parallels the experience of living with it on a day to day basis but IMO BMW should have a switch next to the shifter that lets you turn rev matching on and off at will.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I am able to accept whatever transmission choice anyone else wants to make since it has absolutely no effect on me.

I was seriously considering getting an MT but when I test drove one I found the rev matching to be very distracting. Heel and toe and blipping the throttle is totally ingrained and the auto rev matching threw my rhythm off.

Granted this was a 20 minute test drive and in no way parallels the experience of living with it on a day to day basis but IMO BMW should have a switch next to the shifter that lets you turn rev matching on and off at will.

the most knowledgeable and objective poster here.

[jgoldsmith729]

How does the Seat of the Pants (SOTP) acceleration compare between the DCT and manual transmissions?

I test drove both and the DCT felt faster (I know it is). When riding in my friends DCT m4, it also felt like it pulled harder. Of course this was after break-in.

Any thoughts? And could the gearing could make that substantial of a difference?

[WulsgG80M3]

DCT Every time

I would like to say !!!! for me as a man who drive an M4 F82 in the UK my attention is drawn to heads up display with speed limit display !!! We can only multi task so much before we get brain freeze !! so driving a M4 with 6MT would like listening to my wife and driving round the Nuremberg at the same time

[morgan302]

50 years of standard shift cars from drag racing, auto crossing and road racing. I love std shift cars. The other may be faster on changing gears but you can not get the control like you do with a manual clutch!

[VectorRalf]

I drive w/ DCT in manual mode 97% of the time. The other 3% I've got this. Worth it!!!

[snowghost]

I mean let's face it, there's no difference between the DCT and MT enthusiasts, except that the DCT guys sit down to pee.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by snowghost

I mean let's face it, there's no difference between the DCT and MT enthusiasts, except that the DCT guys sit down to pee and the MT guys pee their pants

Fixed

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Fixed

Depends on the curve.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by snowghost

I mean let's face it, there's no difference between the DCT and MT enthusiasts, except that the DCT guys sit down to pee.

LOL +1 :

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by snowghost

Depends on the curve.

Exactly.

"Depends" on the curve.

CA