M3 v M4 VBOX Comparison

[solstice]

Originally Posted by mrkhanna16

IF YOU GUYS DONT LIKE THE RESULTS CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER OF VBOX NOT MRSSIIM3

Poor guy just wanted to share some info with the community....

Yeah since now vbox is deemed useless as well. Add it to the list of Dynojet, Maha dynos and fast Magazine times. In summary pretty much every measured times, speed and power recorded that points to a 12X mph trap speed or +425 hp engine is useless.

Don't you know by now that for the F8X the only valid metrics are the slowest measured magazine times with a 6 MT and the insoric measurements, everything else is USELESS. Though they are perfectly fine for every other car on the planet. Especially the E9X and the Vette.

[bimmerj]

Something off. Just me looking at the data and there is a huge chance I am wrong. I am a bit surprised you guys don't go to the drag strip.

[FogCityM3]

Seems more realistic, but have never seen an FBO E92 M3 that fast. There are several tests of the best tuned E92s in Europe that don't get these numbers.

Regardless, I think the comparison of the delta difference between the two cars is valid.

I also appreciate the OP's effort in testing and sharing the info.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It takes more than 0.21 sec to accelerate from 95.5mph to 100mph. I would estimate more in the 0.6~0.7 sec range. So the 0-100mph of the M3 is more around 8.4~8.5 sec. Not that far off the M4.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah since now vbox is deemed useless as well. Add it to the list of Dynojet, Maha dynos and fast Magazine times. In summary pretty much every measured times, speed and power recorded that points to a 12X mph trap speed or +425 hp engine is useless.

Don't you know by now that for the F8X the only valid metrics are the slowest measured magazine times with a 6 MT and the insoric measurements, everything else is USELESS. Though they are perfectly fine for every other car on the planet. Especially the E9X and the Vette.

lol I love it.

[bimmerj]

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=984354
Not the best comparison I guess.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah since now vbox is deemed useless as well. Add it to the list of Dynojet, Maha dynos and fast Magazine times. In summary pretty much every measured times, speed and power recorded that points to a 12X mph trap speed or +425 hp engine is useless.

Don't you know by now that for the F8X the only valid metrics are the slowest measured magazine times with a 6 MT and the insoric measurements, everything else is USELESS. Though they are perfectly fine for every other car on the planet. Especially the E9X and the Vette.

I think that about covers it, ha.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah since now vbox is deemed useless as well. Add it to the list of Dynojet, Maha dynos and fast Magazine times. In summary pretty much every measured times, speed and power recorded that points to a 12X mph trap speed or +425 hp engine is useless.

Don't you know by now that for the F8X the only valid metrics are the slowest measured magazine times with a 6 MT and the insoric measurements, everything else is USELESS. Though they are perfectly fine for every other car on the planet. Especially the E9X and the Vette.

Exactly.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

3.9 for the DCT
4.1 for the manual

lol.... This is 0-60! He said 0-62 Read it one more time

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by FTS

0 to 60, not 62.

Meh, As long as we're still using imperial here, I'll stick to 0-60

Also I find it hard to believe this car couldn't cover 60-62 in under .3 seconds.

[Boss330]

Impressive trap speed!

Will be interesting to see more of these runs, both VBox and "real" drag strip times and speeds

So far, we have seen a surprisingly large deviation between Vbox results, Magazine results and dyno results. And after reading the thread, I must say that most of the questions seem to be in order to understand why you got so much faster trap speed than what we have seen before. Not saying the V Box is useless or you are lying etc.

For comparison, here are a few other V Box results:

12,2s @ 119MPH (400m):
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=984354

12,58s @ 117,8MPH (trap speed) E20 fuel and soft launch - Max velocity at 1/4 mile was 118,7MPH
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1000665

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Meh, As long as we're still using imperial here, I'll stick to 0-60

Also I find it hard to believe this car couldn't cover 60-62 in under .3 seconds.

The point is that we need to compare apples with apples.

And yes, it can take a few thenths to accelerate those 2mph. According to BMW, there is a 0.2 sec difference between 0-60mph and 0-100km/h (0-62mph). For F8X DCT/6MT respectively, the BMW numbers are:

0-60mph = 3.9/4.1
0-100km/h = 4.1/4.3

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Meh, As long as we're still using imperial here, I'll stick to 0-60

Also I find it hard to believe this car couldn't cover 60-62 in under .3 seconds.

Largely depends on whether it requires a shift. Are we really discussing the different in 0-60mph and 0-62mph times?

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Impressive trap speed!

Will be interesting to see more of these runs, both VBox and "real" drag strip times and speeds

So far, we have seen a surprisingly large deviation between Vbox results, Magazine results and dyno results. And after reading the thread, I must say that most of the questions seem to be in order to understand why you got so much faster trap speed than what we have seen before. Not saying the V Box is useless or you are lying etc.

For comparison, here are a few other V Box results:

12,2s @ 119MPH (400m):
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=984354

12,58s @ 117,8MPH (trap speed) E20 fuel and soft launch - Max velocity at 1/4 mile was 118,7MPH
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1000665

The VBOX reports the speed at the 1/4 mark. A drag strip reports the speed over the last 60' of the quarter mile.

The drag strip uses lasers on a certified flat surface. The VBOX uses a 10 or 20hz GPS sample.

The VBOX will always give a higher and slightly less accurate number.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

The VBOX reports the speed at the 1/4 mark. A drag strip reports the speed over the last 60' of the quarter mile.

The drag strip uses lasers on a certified flat surface. The VBOX uses a 10 or 20hz GPS sample.

The VBOX will always give a higher and slightly less accurate number.

Thanks

The last link had a Vbox number that both posted trap speed and max velocity. Assume that your clarification also applies to the V Box trap speed calculation since that also depends on the GPS sample?

OP: Do you know if your trap speed numbers are the trap speed averaged or the max velocity numbers? (see graphs from V Box in my second link above)

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Thanks

The last link had a Vbox number that both posted trap speed and max velocity. Assume that your clarification also applies to the V Box trap speed calculation since that also depends on the GPS sample?

OP: Do you know if your trap speed numbers are the trap speed averaged or the max velocity numbers? (see graphs from V Box in my second link above)

I have a 20hz Vbox sport , the numbers are the GPS speed at the 1/4 mile mark not the last 60ft avg.

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

Largely depends on whether it requires a shift. Are we really discussing the different in 0-60mph and 0-62mph times?

Some people are actually claiming there's a difference that escapes 10ths of a second, so yes, I guess so. Also, .2 seconds is no unreasonable number in a sub-5 second 0-60 car.

[ASAP]

Can someone just go to a track please?

[solstice]

Vbox has been around for many years and it's well documented all over this forum and elsewhere ( many runs at the drag strip with a Vbox installed ) that the Vbox is very accurate but due to the difference in trap speed formula the Vbox reads about 1 mph higher but never 2 or more. The Vbox time is often slower than the strip but accurate within .1 s.

No need to go to the strip to verify Vbox numbers, there's enough of those comparisons out there if you search. Not to say that we don't want more strip numbers, we do!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Can someone just go to a track please?

+1

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Vbox has been around for many years and it's well documented all over this forum and elsewhere ( many runs at the drag strip with a Vbox installed ) that the Vbox is very accurate but due to the difference in trap speed formula the Vbox reads about 1 mpg higher but never 2 or more. The Vbox time is often slower than the strip but accurate within .1 s.

No need to go to the strip to verify Vbox numbers, there's enough of those comparisons out there if you search. Not to say that we don't want more strip numbers, we do!

Vbox is indeed well documented

I think what has caused the discussion is that this particular Vbox run had 3-4MPH faster trap speeds than the previous Vbox runs, and being higher than any 1/4 mile trap we have seen previously.

I think we have had one above 120MPH with the 120,9MPH by Autocar (possibly on a Vbox as well), and the rest varying from 114MPH to 119MPH (DCT and MT cars). A trap speed increase from 119MPH to 122,3MPH is roughly a 40hp difference according to generic trap speed calculators (which certainly aren't scientific and correct, but at least offers some insight).

It will therefore be interesting to see more "real" trap speeds set on drag strips. It will be amazing if we end up seeing the F8x DCT consistently trap at around 120-123MPH...

BTW, this trap speed (122,3MPH) is also significantly faster than P1 Motorcars simulation results. Wouldn't this trap speed (if considered representative) mean they don't have correlation between simulation and real world numbers anymore...

[MRSSIIM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Vbox is indeed well documented

I think what has caused the discussion is that this particular Vbox run had 3-4MPH faster trap speeds than the previous Vbox runs, and being higher than any 1/4 mile trap we have seen previously.

I think we have had one above 120MPH with the 120,9MPH by Autocar (possibly on a Vbox as well), and the rest varying from 114MPH to 119MPH (DCT and MT cars). A trap speed increase from 119MPH to 122,3MPH is roughly a 40hp difference according to generic trap speed calculators (which certainly aren't scientific and correct, but at least offers some insight).

It will therefore be interesting to see more "real" trap speeds set on drag strips. It will be amazing if we end up seeing the F8x DCT consistently trap at around 120-123MPH...

BTW, this trap speed (122,3MPH) is also significantly faster than P1 Motorcars simulation results. Wouldn't this trap speed (if considered representative) mean they don't have correlation between simulation and real world numbers anymore...

This is getting crazy lol. All I know is I tested my stock m4 with my vbox sport and that's the data

[solstice]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

This is getting crazy lol. All I know is I tested my stock m4 with my vbox sport and that's the data

Lol, I know right. Please don't feel the need to go to the track. People here are unreasonable. You used a well documented accurate method and went beyond what most drag strip run provides by doing runs in both directions to eliminate impact of slope and wind. Your method and numbers are good, likely better than most, you seem to know what you are doing when launching and brought another dynod car to compare. Anyone asking for more is looking/wanting to disprove, ignore them since they will never be satisfied with anything than the numbers they WANT to see instead of the actual ones.