04-23-2014, 05:24 PM | #155 |
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Damn it. Makes me want to get one now. I hate this forum.
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2008 E64 M6
2011 E92 l SSII l Fox Red - 145k and Totaled. 2012 Toyota Prius C - 145k and Totaled. 2002 Nissan Pathfinder - 301.6K and Junked. 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport - Rolled & Totaled. 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood - RIP. |
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04-23-2014, 05:32 PM | #156 | ||
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Does that include turbos/intercoolers? Or is it more of BMW playing with the numbers?? Quote:
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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04-23-2014, 05:44 PM | #157 | |
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04-24-2014, 02:26 AM | #158 | |
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Porsche is part of a pool of 10 manufacturers under the VW umbrella. The pools combined CO2 emissions is what counts when the 130g/km of CO2 has to be met. In 2012 the VW pool had a combined CO2 of 120g/km, allready below the 130g/km level required for 2015. BMW also has a pool, but only has BMW (incl. MINI), Rolls Royce and M GmbH in it's pool. In 2012 they had a combined CO2 of 124g/km, also below the 130g/km target for 2015. However, M GmbH's average CO2 emissions was 231g/km in 2012 and they have set a target at 151g/km in order to meet their pool's requirements for future combined CO2 numbers of 90g/km (in 2020). Even the F8x at 199g/km exceeds that target... AMG, in comparison, had a 2012 CO2 emission of just 177g/km and have the same target of 151g/km as M GmbH does. AMG is MUCH closer to meeting their CO2 requirements than M GmbH was back in 2012... (Quattro GmbH was at 219g/km and has a target of 147g/km). If we look at Porsche's CO2 numbers, as a company and not as part of the VW pool, we will see that they had a 2012 CO2 emission of just 188g/km and has set a target of 153g/km. This tells us that Porsche allready has a combined corporate CO2 number that is LOWER than the best M GmbH car (the F8x at 199g/km). M GmbH sold 6.375 cars in EU in 2012 Porsche sold 42.299 cars in EU in 2012 It's obviously easier for Porsche to make a few GT3's and such. They still only represent at VERY small percentage of total production numbers and make a small impact on corporate CO2 numbers. BMW could also do a limited production NA version, but just a 500 production number would mean 8% of total production... And I'm not sure if Porsche makes as much as 8% (or 3.400) GT3's at 289g/km CO2 each year If I'm not much mistaken the 997 GT3 sold about 1000 examples in the US over a two year period, and approximately the same in Europe. So 500 a year in Europe. 500 examples means 1,2% of total Porsche production. For M GmbH a limited edition model that makes a similarly small impact on total CO2 emissions as the GT3 does to Porsche would mean that they could only sell 76 cars per year in Europe (1,2% of 6.375). It's hard to make a good business case for such a small production... And M GmbH has to meet their 151g/km target... However, a NA engine and hybrid powertrain in addition (Porsche 918), that could be a VERY interesting scenario that creates LOW CO2 emissions and the best of both worlds The above calculations are obviously just simplified versions of a quite complex legislation Source on CO2 emissions: http://www.ademloos.be/sites/default...Oct%202013.pdf |
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04-24-2014, 08:44 AM | #159 | |||
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Sports car manufacturing has a tendency to adopt a me-too approach to product development. Everyone wants to scavenge the success of the leader, and the P1 is just too far out front right now. I'd expect a lot of copying of their formula, and that means hybrid power trains with extremely high specific-output, forced-induction engines.
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04-24-2014, 11:20 AM | #161 | |
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However as long as the GT3 remains arguably the most coveted,praised and somewhat attainable sports car in the world I can't see Porsche doing away with it's core asset, the NA engine. Last edited by solstice; 04-24-2014 at 11:31 AM.. |
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04-24-2014, 01:02 PM | #162 |
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And even Porsche is going FI in more and more cars The Cayman and Boxster are confirmed to be headed to an F4 configuration with up to 395 HP. There's no way they're getting to that HP number without FI.
I suspect the GT3 will be the last car in the world to go FI... at least I hope
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04-24-2014, 01:27 PM | #163 | |
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04-26-2014, 04:19 AM | #164 | |
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You just press the accelerator more gently and there you have it, lower torque. |
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04-26-2014, 04:39 AM | #165 | |
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Its totally clear that to be more gentle on the accelerator meens lower torque and therefor less wheel spin ... but that doesn´t define an fast car ...the fastest (idealistic) car is this where you have high hp and at the same time you doesn´t have to think about too much wheel spin. |
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04-26-2014, 06:16 AM | #166 | |
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If the F82 M4 is more than 10 seconds faster around the Nürburgring, BMW surely must have done something correct? If you are worried about wheelspin just leave the traction control on, and the electronics will take care of you being able to get as much power as possible to the ground. If not you have to rely on the driver being able to balance throttle input... A engine that has a on/off torque delivery will be hard to drive fast around a track, kind of like my old Sierra RS Cosworth that it is tricky to modulate the power on However a engine that has enough power/torque to break traction in low speed corners will also be able to pull more straight line speed compared to a engine that is barely able to break traction in the same low speed corner. In one car you can just mash the throttle through the corner and not worry about wheelspin. In the other car you will have to modulate the throttle and ease in on the accelerator. Both cars will have no problem doing the same corner speed, but the more powerful car will pull away on every straight as it has more accelerative power... The above is possible with a good driver. Put a bad driver behind the wheel of the powerful car, turn TC off, and you have a tricky situation Usually, turning power down doesn't result in quicker lap times Last edited by Boss330; 04-26-2014 at 06:27 AM.. |
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04-26-2014, 06:40 AM | #167 | |
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To make my statememt from above right, I must say that I am speaking from car with nearly the same hp-output (in the same hp-class) to make apples-to-apples ... I think in this case the car with less wheel spin issues would be faster - in the corner and as fast as in straight line. In my opinion more low-end-torque or more torque makes automatically no car faster on the track ... if this would be the case all US-Muscle-Car would be unbeatable in trackuse. |
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04-26-2014, 09:06 AM | #168 | |
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It definitely takes throttle modulation skills and a driver that has good reactions and "feel" for the car Also don't forget that with a turbo engine like the S55 you will also have the option of shortshifting out of a corner if traction is a problem. Just change up one gear and the engine will still be in it's torque band and give good acceleration but without wheelspin Just look at this years F1 driving style. To manage the high torque they often short shift coming out of a corner. US muscle cars (of the old school) didn't have the suspension or brakes to do quick lap times. But look at the new Corvette with it's large displacement engine and loads of low end grunt. Seems to do pretty well aroun a track And look at this guy tracking his M6 round the 'Ring. He carries quite a lot of speed into, through and out of corners. And that's in a car with heaps of torque... http://<div class="youtube-playerCon.../iframe></div> |
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04-26-2014, 09:53 AM | #169 |
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04-26-2014, 10:31 AM | #170 |
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04-26-2014, 12:34 PM | #171 |
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Now we know why everyone is so focused on the true weight of the f8x platform - how does the power delivery dynamic of the S55 and its torque characteristics play into track modulation? Now I see why the throttle is programmed so linearly however I prefer the trigger throttle and that all out boost feeling earlier. I get lazy of having to push the pedal that far
Short shifting out of a turn is safe but boring unless you are driving an F40 or something like that And the weight of the M6 and/or the convertible top (e93/f83) allows you to push hard through turns and know you will stick... So anti-drifting but not absolute |
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04-26-2014, 12:37 PM | #172 |
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04-26-2014, 12:41 PM | #173 | |
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a heavier car doesn't mean it has more grip. and the m6 has been ripped in many reviews for not having enough grip or enough chassis to handle the monster engine also, all a more powerful car takes is a little more patience on the throttle application coming out of a corner. this is the same regardless if its an N/A or turbo engine if it makes a lot of power. turbos and big engines IMO are fun on the track because you don't have to be on the razors edge of RPMs coming out of corners in order to have a lot of power blasting into the next straight. ive tracked cars with big torque and its a lot of fun blasting out of corners. this isn't a zr1 or some uncontrollable monster like a gt2 rs, its going to be great on track also, can you explain what you mean by your first statement?
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07-01-2014, 06:50 PM | #174 | ||
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01-06-2022, 02:25 PM | #176 |
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M4 2018 E Brake adjustment
Doesn't really fit topic and new to forum which has no search engine.....Either way, pardon the interruption. Does anybody have a link too adjust eh E brake on a 2018 M4? Video or print. Took off tires and can't see a standard adjuster.
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