01-15-2022, 07:03 AM | #1 |
Private
86
Rep 71
Posts
Drives: BMW M4, Chevy Colorado ZR2
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
|
Switching to E85 with some questions
Hey all, so I'm looking to swap to E85 with the BM3 kit and i just can't seem to find out if this fuel system can handle. I've spent the last few years in the corvette world where you cannot run e85 without pairing it with an upgraded fuel system (injectors and low side pump). So im just trying to make sure I can toss in the BM3 E85 kit and just tune and go.
Currently Im on the BM3 stage2 93 tune and I was looking to go to the flex fuel one. I've got catless DP's, cat back, intakes, top mount, and charge pipes. The car is in a good place just looking for the next little bit. I appreciate any feedback/assistance! |
01-15-2022, 07:13 AM | #2 | ||
Private
41
Rep 77
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
It'll work. A lot of us are on E85 and a stock fuel system.
__________________
2015 M4 - VRSF Catless DP, BMC HP Filters, Mishi HE, Mishi Catch Can, Mishi Charge Pipes, NGK SILZKBR8F8S, E85 Cary Jordan Tune S2 Hybrid, BM3
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 09:04 AM | #3 |
Brigadier General
2884
Rep 3,719
Posts |
You can run full E85 on stock turbos. The M engines have two high pressure fuel pumps so it can handle it just fine with room to spare.
__________________
2017 F80 M3 ZCP / AA GESI DPs / Akrapovic Evo / BBS FI-R 19" / Bend Calibration ECUTEK Flex Fuel | Bilstein B16 DDC + CS EDC / BMC Filters / BMS OCC / CSF HE / ESS CP / Nitto NT555R2 / PD Crank Hub / SPL Suspension / Uniden R7 / Wagner Top Mount IC
2021 Mini GP3 / BMC Filters / BM3 / Cary Jordan E30 / Wagner IC / Remus Race |
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 10:18 AM | #4 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
23794
Rep 190,150
Posts |
I ran full E85 on my M4 without any issues; at the time, I used a custom map by Cary Jordan.
With the flex fuel kit now available, you can run it without the need for a custom map
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 12:53 PM | #5 |
Major General
5394
Rep 5,123
Posts |
You can run full E85 on all stock no probs. When you run a Custom (Stage 2+) E85 tune it usually requires pushing the high side fuel pressure above 3600PSI and sometimes a fuel injector can break and leak (they do not stick from lack of lubrication [top lube does nothing], the internal gate breaks from running overpressure). You can simply ask the tuner not to push HPFPs too high, which limits the top end (no biggie, stock turbos decline at 6500RPM, no need or benefit from going to redline).
Another alternative would be an E60 tune (half gas, half E85) which allows the tuner to really give you awesome performance without pushing HPFPs into a risk zone. Torque and HP will be great (~550-575HP), just slightly less than "full E85".
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | '19 F82 Exec DCT | '18 F82 Comp Exec DCT | '23 G80cx
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 05:43 PM | #6 | |
Private First Class
113
Rep 141
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 07:34 PM | #7 |
Major General
5394
Rep 5,123
Posts |
I prefer a non-flex tune. It's cheaper and safer since it's less work and doesn't need to adapt. A "single tune" for a particular fuel still can adapt a little. You can buy 2 custom single tunes for the price of the flex kit plus install plus the flex tune. Just flash back and forth…only takes 60sec.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | '19 F82 Exec DCT | '18 F82 Comp Exec DCT | '23 G80cx
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2022, 09:49 PM | #8 | |
Private First Class
113
Rep 141
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2022, 07:16 AM | #9 | ||
Major General
5394
Rep 5,123
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | '19 F82 Exec DCT | '18 F82 Comp Exec DCT | '23 G80cx
|
||
Appreciate
1
TractionControlDelete4580.00 |
01-16-2022, 11:46 AM | #11 |
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
As someone who works in refinery's you should definitely change you mindset on filtration if you have written it off as useful. The OE system doesn't even come close to meeting Bosch spec for their high pressure injection systems and over time the extra material will also damage the pintle. Secondly, consider how good it is to have mismatched flow from all of your injectors as I've seen the reports come back from mildly used S55 sets of injectors which are all over the place for flows. Lastly, most additives will actually coagulate and create nasty gunk in your fuel tank so you're shooting yourself in the foot by trying to chemically treat a problem that can be solved with filtration.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
Appreciate
4
|
01-16-2022, 11:57 AM | #12 |
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
I'll also add this; fellow was adding Lucas products to his E85 in CA and this gel substance coated everything throughout his fuel tank over a year of use. Albeit this is an extreme case but just more proof. I'm not one to make things up.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
01-16-2022, 12:12 PM | #13 |
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
Some other fun examples…having knowledge of the light naphtha (very low octane garbage) which is cut with some sources of E85 definitely brings issues for some depending on the quality of the fuel supply. All E85 is not the same throughout the country. I also don't run the products from some refinery's I've worked at for this and other reasons. For SoCal folks, I like Propel.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
01-16-2022, 05:27 PM | #14 |
Major General
5394
Rep 5,123
Posts |
I try to keep an open mind, so now I'm concerned…
Commanderwiggin so the gel issue comes from ACN when mixed with Ethanol? Where does the Naptha come into play? For those running clean quality fuel or straight E85 don't the HPFPs provide good enough filtration?
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | '19 F82 Exec DCT | '18 F82 Comp Exec DCT | '23 G80cx
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2022, 06:06 PM | #15 |
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
The gel is from mixing additives mostly although could be from some varied blends of naphtha which is cut into the mix depending on the source…or just poor fractionation of the products. Gel/coagulation can be two separate issues.
You've got to imagine the fuel flow from A-B…most refineries are decades old and some approaching a century. When they're retrofit for E85 fuels or even just old storage tanks and piping there is every opportunity for particulates…trucking and gas station storage tanks as well. This is not unique to just E85 and I consider a very low micron filter a requirement for all fuels, Diesel, 91, E85, Race fuels even. You just never know what could be in the tanks/lines. It only takes one bad fill up to make a bad day and I sleep comfortable at night knowing I'm not sending trash into my HPFP and Injectors. Also there is no fuel filtration provided by a non replaceable filter element anywhere in the world. In these cases it's mainly to prevent any crazy large particles from entering the tight tolerance pump from having a massive failure. If the engine isn't getting fuel, it will not be as big of an issue from an OE perspective and will require the troubleshooting and replacement of full HPFP/Injector assembly most likely at that point based on ISTA recommendations. Low micron fuel filtration will prevent these specific failures.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
Appreciate
3
|
01-16-2022, 07:17 PM | #16 | |
Private First Class
73
Rep 196
Posts |
Quote:
Were those numbers from a car you drove? I would imagine whatever car they came off of was not feeling very good lol
__________________
14' Alpine White M235i 6MT, BM3 Stg2+, VRSF DP-CP-FMIC, Dinan Muffler, GFB DV+, 3.5 bar MAP, Dorch Stg1 HPFP, NGK 97506, BM3 Flexfuel Kit, CDV delete, KW V3, EDC delete, Powerflex Camber LCA bushings, VMR 801 18x8.5/9.5 et45, Conti Extremecontact 235/265
Next step: M2 Competition or Manual Supra MKV build Summer 2022 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2022, 07:18 PM | #17 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
4580
Rep 1,690
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
DSC, you say? Never heard of it
https://youtube.com/@tractioncontroldelete |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2022, 07:34 PM | #18 | ||
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
Quote:
Here's a vid of an ASNU GDI cleaner/test bench. There's other equipment out there too and just depends; just searched and this came up so it might even be a more detailed test. Most of the folks I've spoken with end up utilizing RC Fuel Injection in Torrance, CA for testing/cleaning. In regards to the flow tests, these were from friends I know in the car community. The one that had no flow from the injector ended up losing compression on that cylinder after running into the issue at a half mile event. A filter isn't going to save every injector from every scenario but it will definitely save them from getting full of contaminants.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
||
Appreciate
1
rtl3273.00 |
01-16-2022, 07:39 PM | #19 | ||
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
||
Appreciate
2
TractionControlDelete4580.00 HomoPirate84.00 |
01-17-2022, 12:54 AM | #20 | |||
Brigadier General
2884
Rep 3,719
Posts |
Quote:
Many thanks for your insight Would you avoid G&M E85? I don't have a propel station near by but G&M is everywhere.
__________________
2017 F80 M3 ZCP / AA GESI DPs / Akrapovic Evo / BBS FI-R 19" / Bend Calibration ECUTEK Flex Fuel | Bilstein B16 DDC + CS EDC / BMC Filters / BMS OCC / CSF HE / ESS CP / Nitto NT555R2 / PD Crank Hub / SPL Suspension / Uniden R7 / Wagner Top Mount IC
2021 Mini GP3 / BMC Filters / BM3 / Cary Jordan E30 / Wagner IC / Remus Race |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2022, 05:03 AM | #21 |
Brigadier General
1836
Rep 4,204
Posts |
I would not say the problem is centered around Lucas but additives in general. The better the additive the more it will be used and the name thrown around. Lucas Oil is known to be very good and a solid product....but a chemical combination reaction is what it is......
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2022, 02:13 PM | #22 | |
Major
2043
Rep 1,200
Posts |
Quote:
As for G&M E85 it's typically Pearson products iirc. I've filled up at them before but would lean towards Propel if given the option. And I think you already know my thought on filtration :P
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration 1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder |
|
Appreciate
1
hellokitty2883.50 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|