Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Jockey

So how many bans are going to come from the XM reveal thread?

All moderators on deck

[pbar]

Originally Posted by No Boost

All moderators on deck

Unfortunately, it's a BMW concept submarine and the dive klaxon is already sounding.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by dms-01

What I don't get is who is the intended audience for this thing? I mean do they sell more X3/4/5Ms then M2/3/4/5/8s?

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The company isn't stupid, despite what some might think. The intended audience is always changing.

….and yes, the X cars are extremely popular.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

In a similar way, it’s the Cayenne that put Porsche back in the black and saved them from bankruptcy. Today, Porsche sell way more SUV than sports cars. SUV do sell very well.

No one's really answered his question then.

It is impossible to find exact sales figures for M models, especially without our fella SickFinga. It is, however, very country-specific.

In the US, X3 and X5 decimate 3 Series and 5 Series models. X6 doesn't sell well at all. In Germany, the 3 and 5 Series are still more popular, though. M SUVs are rarer, too.

But given the popularity of the X5 in the US, it's 60:40 for the X5 M vs. X6 M worldwide, though the X6 M is much more popular in Eastern Europe, Russia and Middle East (as we've discussed some pages before). And seeing as most of BMW M GmbH's growth in 2020 came from Russia, China, Korea, it's clear BMW SUVs and thus high-performance versions are gaining on popularity. Of course, it's going to sell in certain markets.

35k F80 M3, 20k F10 M5, 11k F87 M2 N55 (and I suspect more M2 Comps). That's all we know.

Still doesn't mean it's ok to make their SUVs butt-ugly and present them as the first M GmbH car after the M1.

[stein_325i]

The question is whether BMW can succeed pricing wise. Will this car sell well, or will it sell well while also receiving the typical discount? BMW has always been known as the cheap lease or big discount brand before the sales shortage, and high priced vehicles above $130k have never been their strong suit (ex. i8, 8er (both old and new) etc.). I would think this XM (stupid name) will be the highest price BMW yet other than maybe the i8. It's definitely gonna be more than an X5M and bridge closer to the $200k mark. Will be interesting to see, that being said it's unknown when the market will return to normal.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by swagon

No one's really answered his question then.

It is impossible to find exact sales figures for M models, especially without our fella SickFinga. It is, however, very country-specific.

In the US, X3 and X5 decimate 3 Series and 5 Series models. X6 doesn't sell well at all. In Germany, the 3 and 5 Series are still more popular, though. M SUVs are rarer, too.

But given the popularity of the X5 in the US, it's 60:40 for the X5 M vs. X6 M worldwide, though the X6 M is much more popular in Eastern Europe, Russia and Middle East (as we've discussed some pages before). And seeing as most of BMW M GmbH's growth in 2020 came from Russia, China, Korea, it's clear BMW SUVs and thus high-performance versions are gaining on popularity. Of course, it's going to sell in certain markets.

35k F80 M3, 20k F10 M5, 11k F87 M2 N55 (and I suspect more M2 Comps). That's all we know.

Still doesn't mean it's ok to make their SUVs butt-ugly and present them as the first M GmbH car after the M1.

Do SUV's do well in China? I thought the Chinese prefer long limousines which is why you can find an extended wheelbase model of every sedan from BMW and MB in China.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Arcades

This will definitely sell.

We aren't the target audience but this will sell. Whether it will outsell a Model Y or X is another story completely. It probably won't based on all the current "wtf" reaction from… well everywhere.

All other brands needs to do is don't release a car that makes their brand look like a laughing stock. I have not seen a SUV look this ugly since… well this thing. I take dealing with stupid touchscreens than the XM.

This is a HELL no. If they are trying to draw some long time customers back with this, they are completely off the mark. Granted this car was probably in the making already when all the other ugly ass front end started happening but wtf is BMW thinking? Please for the love of god just fire ALL of their damn design team.

If you are still wondering why I left BMW as a brand. You shouldn't need to keep asking me after the XM reveal. Even the quiet reveal of the Taycan GTS trims was more exciting (albeit pointless).

My post was not an endorsement of that hideous XM, but rather just to point out that SUV do sell.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The company isn't stupid, despite what some might think. The intended audience is always changing.

….and yes, the X cars are extremely popular.

It may generate some short term gain but will result in long term pain for the brand.

Look back at the Acura beak grills or the Lexus predator grill - these styling cues killed the stature of those brands completely.

The current LS is the lowest selling car in the segment where at one point it used to consistently outsell the Sclass.

Mark my words - this radical change will further push BMW below MB and Audi as the general sentiment of the public becomes negative or too divided. Once consumers leave a brand, its not easy to win them back. BMW is losing sales to Tesla and other brands already, this new styling will only make it worse.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by R N M

It may generate some short term gain but will result in long term pain for the brand.


Mark my words - this radical change will further push BMW below MB and Audi as the general sentiment of the public becomes negative or too divided. Once consumers leave a brand, its not easy to win them back. BMW is losing sales to Tesla and other brands already, this new styling will only make it worse.

Those are your assumptions based on your personal feelings about the product. You may not represent BMW's target market. The general public isn't represented on these forums, nor on social media. Anecdotally, regular Joe's and Janes love these new vehicles.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Those are your assumptions based on your personal feelings about the product. You may not represent BMW's target market. The general public isn't represented on these forums, nor on social media. Anecdotally, regular Joe's and Janes love these new vehicles.

General public shunned Lexus and Acura, same will happen with BMW.

Let’s see where we are in 5years time for BMW brand.
My prediction is brand prestige has decreased, ///M is a joke. Sales of cheap models are up and sales of high end models are down.

Most successful ppl don’t want to be associated with a circus car. Typically that strategy for a brand never works. Those are not assumptions as we have historical data from other brands making same mistake.

BTW when ppl are forking over $100k over sticker like the do for new Gwagon then you can say ppl like this change. Most models that are super successful- 911, Sclass, RangeRover - don’t rely on gimmick styling.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by R N M

General public shunned Lexus and Acura, same will happen with BMW.

Let's see where we are in 5years time for BMW brand.
My prediction is brand prestige has decreased, ///M is a joke. Sales of cheap models are up and sales of high end models are down.

Most successful ppl don't want to be associated with a circus car. Typically that strategy for a brand never works. Those are not assumptions as we have historical data from other brands making same mistake.

I'll gladly take that bet.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'll gladly take that bet.

Let’s do it - the loser has to buy one of these massacred machines.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Those are your assumptions based on your personal feelings about the product. You may not represent BMW's target market. The general public isn't represented on these forums, nor on social media. Anecdotally, regular Joe's and Janes love these new vehicles.

So his assumptions and personal feelings aren't valid yet yours are?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by R N M

Let's do it - the loser has to buy one of these massacred machines.

Well, that's a bit of a stretch my friend. I'm not into SAV's (…and I've already owned two different X5's in the past). Plus, I'm off to Porsche anyway. Loser just acknowledges they were wrong. That's more than what most would be willing to do.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by alex2364

So his assumptions and personal feelings aren't valid yet yours are?

I didn't make definitive statements about a company's impending failure. There's a difference. I merely stated two facts: 1) The X BMW's are very popular and sell well, and 2) The target audience is always evolving.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I didn't make definitive statements about a company's impending failure. There's a difference. I merely stated two facts: 1) The X BMW's are very popular and sell well, and 2) The target audience is always evolving.

-said the Zune executive to his colleagues….


/s

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by R N M

It may generate some short term gain but will result in long term pain for the brand.

Look back at the Acura beak grills or the Lexus predator grill - these styling cues killed the stature of those brands completely.

The current LS is the lowest selling car in the segment where at one point it used to consistently outsell the Sclass.

Mark my words - this radical change will further push BMW below MB and Audi as the general sentiment of the public becomes negative or too divided. Once consumers leave a brand, its not easy to win them back. BMW is losing sales to Tesla and other brands already, this new styling will only make it worse.

Last I looked Lexus is nose to nose with BMW and MB for luxury sales in the USA so there's zero evidence the predator grill has had a negative effect on the brand.

Originally Posted by R N M

Let’s do it - the loser has to buy one of these massacred machines.

You best start saving as you have kind of lost the plot here and don't realize that enthusiasts on automotive forums are the last of a dying breed. It sucks but the reality is that we aren't really relevant as far as the big picture goes in the automotive world. We are niche and don't represent the average automobile consumer at all.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Do SUV's do well in China? I thought the Chinese prefer long limousines which is why you can find an extended wheelbase model of every sedan from BMW and MB in China.

I was just blindly going by the BMW press release, however, I've read this regarding October 2021 sales in China:

Crossovers and SUVs lose market share with sales down 7.2% to 45.8% share, while sedans outperform the market at -3.3% to outsell crossovers at 47.7% share.

In 2020, the best-selling BMWs were indeed the weird elongated 3 and 5 Series L.

5er L 160k
3er L 156k
X3 135k
X1 95k
1er 39k
X2 25k
iX3 0.9k

But I'm not sure about this list because the X5 and others were nowhere to be found in their top 585. I've a strong suspicion these must be only cars produced in China.

Here ,they mention imported cars like the X5, Porsches, etc., but the figures are behind a paywall.

Another source:

Among them, the annual cumulative sales of BMW X model was nearly 323000, with a year-on-year growth of 12.3%. The sales of BMW X3 and BMW X5 exceeded 134000 and 43000 respectively.

So, yeah, suspicions confirmed.

And BMW Canada is apparently dealing with smugglers taking Canadian cars into China.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Last I looked Lexus is nose to nose with BMW and MB for luxury sales in the USA so there's zero evidence the predator grill has had a negative effect on the brand.



You best start saving as you have kind of lost the plot here and don't realize that enthusiasts on automotive forums are the last of a dying breed. It sucks but the reality is that we aren't really relevant as far as the big picture goes in the automotive world. We are niche and don't represent the average automobile consumer at all.

Look at the cars Lexus sells - all cheap FWD models.
They used to have strong sales of GS and LS.
GS is discontinued.
LS is selling in minuscule numbers after leading segment in sales in 2000s.
They are kept alive by RX and NX which are considerably cheaper than comparable German models. I personally don’t consider Lexus on same luxury level brand as MB, BMW, Audi in terms of prestige.

They can’t move any high priced model over $60k.

The average transaction price is also lower compared to MB and BMW.
The brand took a big hit after Predator grill.

Acura was basically done after the Beak grill, only past few years they have started a comeback. But nowhere close to what the brand was in 90s and 2000s.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well, that's a bit of a stretch my friend. I'm not into SAV's (…and I've already owned two different X5's in the past). Plus, I'm off to Porsche anyway. Loser just acknowledges they were wrong. That's more than what most would be willing to do.

Yes i was merely kidding 😀

I have 2 BMWs currently and 1 Porsche with another on order.
Family X3 replacement is up next - most likely will get new X3M or X5 as those are still not affected by hideous grill or iPad dash. After that, i need to find new brand lol Too bad Macan is too small and Cayenne leases are too much for me. Will check out MB GLE but i think X5 is better overall.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by R N M

Look at the cars Lexus sells - all cheap FWD models.
They used to have strong sales of GS and LS.
GS is discontinued.
LS is selling in minuscule numbers after leading segment in sales in 2000s.
They are kept alive by RX and NX which are considerably cheaper than comparable German models. I personally don’t consider Lexus on same luxury level brand as MB, BMW, Audi in terms of prestige.

They can’t move any high priced model over $60k.

The average transaction price is also lower compared to MB and BMW.
The brand took a big hit after Predator grill.

Acura was basically done after the Beak grill, only past few years they have started a comeback. But nowhere close to what the brand was in 90s and 2000s.

Those beak grills were awful, I remember my neighbor down the street had traded in her '05 TL which she loved for a the next generation model, first modification she made was swapping the grill for an aftermarket mesh piece to improve the looks. Looks like the relationship with Acura didn't stay strong as she's now on her third Audi.



It does seem that Acura has only recently gotten their mojo back with the new pentagon style grill. Dynamically the TLX still sucks, but the new one is so much better looking I will say that, I see them everywhere in my area along with the new MDX and RDX, so it looks like the new styling direction is serving them well.

[R N M]

New MDX is great looking SUV, probably the nicest Acura since the Legend sedan.

BTW who remembers the hideous ZDX - lots of parallels to this new XM lol
Didn’t age too well…

[Sedan_Clan]

Fashion Gray Macan on the 5 freeway in Carlsbad.