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      02-27-2020, 11:47 AM   #23
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iNEXT = hottest phase = development
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      02-27-2020, 01:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You have to celebrate progression and innovation and not be stuck in the 70s. This new vehicle is a very exciting release that places BMW as a true competitor in the EV market unlike the test mule i3 did.
Sorry, I'm not here to argue. I simply hold a perspective that isn't informed by unfettered fandom.

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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
If you don't find that exciting, like a said before, feel free to move on.
Thanks for inviting me to leave. Twice. This forum is mine as much as yours. You ought not to participate if my opinion causes such heartburn.

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      02-27-2020, 01:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You have to celebrate progression and innovation and not be stuck in the 70s. This new vehicle is a very exciting release that places BMW as a true competitor in the EV market unlike the test mule i3 did.
Sorry, I'm not here to argue. I simply have a perspective that differs from unfettered fandom.

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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
If you don't find that exciting, like a said before, feel free to move on.
Thanks for inviting me to leave. Twice. This forum is mine as much as yours. You ought not to participate if my opinion causes such heartburn.

Cheers
Then let the perspectives flow. It's 2020. High revving BMW NA V10s died a decade ago. NA high revving V8s died 6 years ago. What's your expectation? A two door V10 powered 3000 lb car? Get a GT3RS (minus the V10).

We live in an SUV-driven world with EV soon taking priority over ICE.
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      02-27-2020, 11:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post
I believe the iNext is their first car that will be solely built to be an EV from the ground up.
Wasn't i3 the first from the ground up BMW EV?

I understand iNext aims at level 3 autonomy, 600km range and basically offering a comprehensive contemporary EV vehicle but it's hard to see it as much more than an electric X5 from a certain perspective. Same platform, size, utility. Not much different to what i4 will be to 4GC or iX3 to X3. Only perhaps more advanced in regards to autonomy and connectivity.

Btw, it's quite disappointing how the i4 shapes to be nothing like the iVision concept but rather an electric version of the new 4GC which actually looks more GT than GC. Too tall and bulbous.
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      02-28-2020, 01:31 AM   #27
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[QUOTE=Faust;25862303]Wasn't i3 the first from the ground up BMW EV?


That's what I was thinking!


I'm all for the FULL EV cars but there has to be a decent price point. Audi asking 85K for an E-tron is why they sit on the lots. I think getting 18 miles then switching to ICE is completely useless. My commute is 40RT and I create my own power at home. Make a 330e or X3e that has the range of a 10+ year old Chevy Volt and I'm in.
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      02-28-2020, 07:04 AM   #28
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[QUOTE=clubsport;25862437]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust View Post
Wasn't i3 the first from the ground up BMW EV?


That's what I was thinking!


I'm all for the FULL EV cars but there has to be a decent price point. Audi asking 85K for an E-tron is why they sit on the lots. I think getting 18 miles then switching to ICE is completely useless. My commute is 40RT and I create my own power at home. Make a 330e or X3e that has the range of a 10+ year old Chevy Volt and I'm in.
Nah the EV extremists discount the i3 because the optional ICE makes it insufficiently woke.
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      02-28-2020, 01:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust View Post
Wasn't i3 the first from the ground up BMW EV?

.... it's hard to see it as much more than an electric X5 from a certain perspective.
Legacy auto makers are waking up to the fact that a good EV is certainly great software (which they don't have), but also custom hardware (meaning bespoke circuit boards and chips, which they also don't have). E.g., Tesla's battery conditioning algorithms automatically preheat the battery when the car senses it's pulling up to a supercharger or Porsche Taycan's ability to automatically heat/cool via heat pump tech and software integrated with all systems of the car.

And then, in order to do that stuff, you gotta have a vertically integrated supply chain - Tesla has proven you can't halfass it by pulling random generic parts off a shelf and cobbling them together - on a BEV, that causes massive complexity and inefficiency, not to mention underperformance (in both range and acceleration). Musk is famous for saying, "the factory is the product" after being in "production hell" with the Model 3. You can't just slap some generic motors onto a chassis, grab some LiOns, wire it up and call it done.

In short, a best-in-class BEV has to be custom / bespoke engineered from the ground up, including computer hardware and software, if it's going to compete; otherwise, yeah, it's just an electric X5.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 02-28-2020 at 02:06 PM..
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      02-28-2020, 02:15 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by fricfracfrank View Post
That's what the market is dictating these days.

They have no choice but to do so and do it with EVs
That must be why Tesla Model 3s and Ss aren't selling, but everyone is rushing out to buy ETrons....

... wait a tick...
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      02-28-2020, 06:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust View Post
Wasn't i3 the first from the ground up BMW EV?

.... it's hard to see it as much more than an electric X5 from a certain perspective.
Legacy auto makers are waking up to the fact that a good EV is certainly great software (which they don't have), but also custom hardware (meaning bespoke circuit boards and chips, which they also don't have). E.g., Tesla's battery conditioning algorithms automatically preheat the battery when the car senses it's pulling up to a supercharger or Porsche Taycan's ability to automatically heat/cool via heat pump tech and software integrated with all systems of the car.

And then, in order to do that stuff, you gotta have a vertically integrated supply chain - Tesla has proven you can't halfass it by pulling random generic parts off a shelf and cobbling them together - on a BEV, that causes massive complexity and inefficiency, not to mention underperformance (in both range and acceleration). Musk is famous for saying, "the factory is the product" after being in "production hell" with the Model 3. You can't just slap some generic motors onto a chassis, grab some LiOns, wire it up and call it done.

In short, a best-in-class BEV has to be custom / bespoke engineered from the ground up, including computer hardware and software, if it's going to compete; otherwise, yeah, it's just an electric X5.
Agreed.... but why are we doing this again?
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      02-28-2020, 06:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Agreed.... but why are we doing this again?
See here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      02-28-2020, 06:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Legacy auto makers are waking up to the fact that a good EV is certainly great software (which they don't have), but also custom hardware (meaning bespoke circuit boards and chips, which they also don't have). E.g., Tesla's battery conditioning algorithms automatically preheat the battery when the car senses it's pulling up to a supercharger or Porsche Taycan's ability to automatically heat/cool via heat pump tech and software integrated with all systems of the car.

And then, in order to do that stuff, you gotta have a vertically integrated supply chain - Tesla has proven you can't halfass it by pulling random generic parts off a shelf and cobbling them together - on a BEV, that causes massive complexity and inefficiency, not to mention underperformance (in both range and acceleration). Musk is famous for saying, "the factory is the product" after being in "production hell" with the Model 3. You can't just slap some generic motors onto a chassis, grab some LiOns, wire it up and call it done.

In short, a best-in-class BEV has to be custom / bespoke engineered from the ground up, including computer hardware and software, if it's going to compete; otherwise, yeah, it's just an electric X5.
I agree but where does that leave the i4 and iX3? They seem to be more of the later rather than the former.

But yeah, totally agree, Tesla is well ahead in software integration and implementation on their EVs compared to legacy automakers.
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