Is anybody here considering the '15 AMG C-63 ?

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Take that "defending the m3" stuff and put it on the shelf. That has nothing to do with this conversation and is just argumentative

I have actual experience with both cars on the track, like / love and dislike things about both cars. I think its pretty reasonable to make a comparison of cars I've actually driven on street and track.

You talked about a few things you thought were similar about the 1m, and I dont agree. The powerband and throttle response of each car is very different, as are the handling characteristics

Finally, I never said the car wasn't demanding at the limit. Welcome to the world of 400whp, 35xx lb rwd cars. Especially when they are equipped with narrow, inadequate for track use, street tires like pss. Which my personal car no longer runs.

It takes respect and talent to drive them at the limit. I have the respect, not the talent. I like the performance and the fact I can continue to improve and get more out of the car over time.

That's the extent of my commentary. I obviously drive the m3 because it's the best for my needs, and don't attempt to pretend it's what ticks the boxes for everyone

Kenny, do not feed the TROLL.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

Lol. My bad. Auto correct. I meant that bmw cannot compete with the SLS or the AMG GT. Despite what a lot of people here like to think, Mercedes makes great handling cars as of late and furthermore despite what they think the e9x and previous gen c63 were neck and neck with the c63 having the edge at the end of the generations.
Simply fact is, Mercedes has been pushing more towards handling whereas bmw is more catering to the straight line tuner crowd.
I am venturing a guess but I do not think the m3/4 are the benchmark I their segment anymore. I truly think the c63/S will be. The c63 will undoubtedly be faster in a straight and have better steering feel, but if the car handles like they can it will also be faster on a road course.
The c63 has a refined aggressiveness and the quality of the base c400 is better than any m3/4 I've driven or been in. Plus the exhaust note on the AMG is great as opposed to the m3/4 which I still cannot say is pleasurable to my ears.

I disagree that MB's handling compares with BMW- especially in their "normal" everyday cars. (never drove an sls or amg gt)

I had a c63 and my wife owns an 2010 E350 with sports package/suspension. Also drove thousands of miles with the company's 2012 GLK350.

My experiences with their normal non amg models:

trannys are tuned for fuel economy- they have crap shift logic, even in sport.

Paddles are crap- not designed by sporty minded engineers- too small, flimsy.

steering is too quick, somewhat like a lexus.

glk handling was horrid- compared to x3 it is a joke. (drove company's new 2015 x3).

on the plus side interiors are well made, cars are more reliable.

based on our seat time, the c63 is gone, the glk is now replaced with a x3, and my wife will be selling the e class next year for probably another brand- trying to get her to a lexus GS.

Just not "in love" driving mb cars.

I think Audi's are a lot closer to bmw handling than MB's. Drove a friend's '14 q5 and it compares pretty close to x3's handling.

[bimmerj]

http://instagram.com/p/xu6NqjIwl5/?modal=true From MBworld.

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I disagree that MB's handling compares with BMW- especially in their "normal" everyday cars. (never drove an sls or amg gt)

I had a c63 and my wife owns an 2010 E350 with sports package/suspension. Also drove thousands of miles with the company's 2012 GLK350.

My experiences with their normal non amg models:

trannys are tuned for fuel economy- they have crap shift logic, even in sport.

Paddles are crap- not designed by sporty minded engineers- too small, flimsy.

steering is too quick, somewhat like a lexus.

glk handling was horrid- compared to x3 it is a joke. (drove company's new 2015 x3).

on the plus side interiors are well made, cars are more reliable.

based on our seat time, the c63 is gone, the glk is now replaced with a x3, and my wife will be selling the e class next year for probably another brand- trying to get her to a lexus GS.

Just not "in love" driving mb cars.

I think Audi's are a lot closer to bmw handling than MB's. Drove a friend's '14 q5 and it compares pretty close to x3's handling.

My post was geared towards the AMG cars in particular. They have been really doing a great job in the handling department especially in the last 5 years. My point was, the best M vs the best AMG, the AMG has a pretty easy win.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

My post was geared towards the AMG cars in particular. They have been really doing a great job in the handling department especially in the last 5 years. My point was, the best M vs the best AMG, the AMG has a pretty easy win.

Apples to oranges. BMW doesn't build a car that is intended to compete with the SLS. What's the point in comparing?

We can debate whether BMW should build a pure sports car like the SLS but the fact is they don't. They absolutely could if they chose to. It is a silly comparison to say the best MB AMG is better than the best BMW M car when BMW isn't even building a car to compete with the SLS. You need to compare cars that are intended to compete with one another.

Although the best AMG is better than the best M, BMW hasn't tried to build a car to compete with it so it isn't relevant. The only thing that is relevant is M5 vs E63, M3 vs. C63, etc.

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by gthal

Apples to oranges. BMW doesn't build a car that is intended to compete with the SLS. What's the point in comparing?

We can debate whether BMW should build a pure sports car like the SLS but the fact is they don't. They absolutely could if they chose to. It is a silly comparison to say the best MB AMG is better than the best BMW M car when BMW isn't even building a car to compete with the SLS. You need to compare cars that are intended to compete with one another.

Although the best AMG is better than the best M, BMW hasn't tried to build a car to compete with it so it isn't relevant. The only thing that is relevant is M5 vs E63, M3 vs. C63, etc.

C63 black series and m3 GTS competed. The GTS despite being much lighter was not as good of a car.
Agreed in the other points they don't directly compete but overall after driving the competing cars they do have, Merc has impressed me more as of late.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

C63 black series and m3 GTS competed. The GTS despite being much lighter was not as good of a car.
Agreed in the other points they don't directly compete but overall after driving the competing cars they do have, Merc has impressed me more as of late.

I think if you like MB, you should buy some of their products and let us know what you think when you actually drive/live with them.

It may be quite the contrary to what you expected.

I went and got the AMG C63 based on the reviews/magazines. It did not live up to my expectations.

Please buy some MB products and report back to us. Don't base opinions on magazines or articles or marketing hype (i am being general here- not pointing at u directly)

[ixse]

http://instagram.com/p/xu6NqjIwl5/?modal=true
One thing those amg guys know is to make great sound
C63s amg rev

[ybbiz34]

Chris Harris just recently said that AMG's new 4.0L biturbo V8 has the best throttle response of any turbocharged motor he has ever driven. He also said it was the best-sounding turbo V8. That motor (w/ dry sump lubrication) is in the new AMG GT and the new W205 C63 (w/out dry sump lubrication).

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I disagree that MB's handling compares with BMW- especially in their "normal" everyday cars. (never drove an sls or amg gt)

I had a c63 and my wife owns an 2010 E350 with sports package/suspension. Also drove thousands of miles with the company's 2012 GLK350.

My experiences with their normal non amg models:

trannys are tuned for fuel economy- they have crap shift logic, even in sport.

Paddles are crap- not designed by sporty minded engineers- too small, flimsy.

steering is too quick, somewhat like a lexus.

glk handling was horrid- compared to x3 it is a joke. (drove company's new 2015 x3).

on the plus side interiors are well made, cars are more reliable.

based on our seat time, the c63 is gone, the glk is now replaced with a x3, and my wife will be selling the e class next year for probably another brand- trying to get her to a lexus GS.

Just not "in love" driving mb cars.

I think Audi's are a lot closer to bmw handling than MB's. Drove a friend's '14 q5 and it compares pretty close to x3's handling.

It's all relative though, based upon the models you're comparing. The GLK is MB's cheapest SUV/crossover. And it really hasn't garnered any favorable reviews, anywhere.

I've had a few F30 M Sport 335i sedans. I loved the N55 motor and the lightning-fast ZF 8-speed "Sport Auto." transmission. I also thought the car looked sharp.

However, the electric steering was a nightmare and despite deliberately choosing the RWD M Sport models to have a sharper chassis, they felt heavy, skittish, floaty, and easily upsettable (particularly over less than idael pavement).

I now have a W205 C300 4MATIC in the fleet as a fuel-efficient daily driver. Benz nailed the various driving modes in the W205. In S+, the steering is better, the car feels nimbler, and the dampening is spot-on.

Plus, the interior really is in a league of its own. Puts the F30's to shame. Puts my W204 C63's interior to shame too (except for the seats), and I quite like the W204's interior layout.

A week ago, Benz released the C450 AMG Sport, with a 362-horsepower turbo V6, 4MATIC, and a suspension based on the W205 C63's suspension.

Benz never really had a car to compete with the Audi S-line and BMW M Sport cars. Now they do.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I went and got the AMG C63 based on the reviews/magazines. It did not live up to my expectations.

I think we may have covered this before but as good as the '08-'11 C63 was, the entirely new suspension in the LCI cars was a revelation. That and the MCT gearbox undoubtedly played a huge role in the LCI C63's blistering lap time (4 seconds quicker than the E9X M3). You'd expect a car to be better after receiving such fundamentally important upgrades.

Now, the 'ring is a fast track and I'd expect the lighter, less powerful E9X to nip the LCI C63 on tighter, more technical tracks but at the end of the day, 4 seconds is 4 seconds.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by ixse

Sooo the c450 official specs n pics released.. 362hp 382tq, full c63 suspension n interior upgrades. Updated 4matic for more rear bias. Updated 7speed brain.. Not too shabby

I'm sorry my friend but that is not true at all (regarding the suspension). I don't know which outlet erroneously reported that but it's completely false.

*All the confusion could perhaps be from an Instagram post made by Mercedes-Benz (not AMG) which was translated from German. The translation stated that the C450 had a suspension "lifted directly from the Mercedes-AMG C63." However, it was later clarified that "lifted" did not mean they shared suspensions. It meant, as I explain below, that the C450's suspension is a modified version of the C400's suspension, taking cues from the W205 C63 and utilizing the same 3-stage dampening system.*

The C450 is a trumped up version of the C400, not a trumped down version of the W205 C63. All of this info. I'm sharing re: the cars' specs is straight from the AMG Private Lounge.

The C450's suspension is loosely based on the W205 C63's suspension. They're nowhere close to identical. The C450's suspension is a tweaked version of the C400's suspension.

The W205 C63 has a completely unique/bespoke suspension.

The only thing the C450 does borrow from the C63 AMG is the ability to change suspension stiffness/dampening; there are 3 modes. The hardware, however, is completely different. Remember that the C450 has C400 specs (re: track width, etc.).

The W205 C63 has its own unique dimensions.

A few more distinctions between the C450 and the W205 C63:

C63 also has a LSD (standard car has a mechanical differential standard whereas the S model has the e-differential from the new AMG GT).

C63 has a bespoke exterior (A-wing front splitter, true quad exhaust with 4 separate tailpipes, AMG single-blade grille, twin power domes on hood, etc.).

C63 has bespoke wheel choices.

C63 has a bespoke motor (obviously) and exhaust system.

C63 has the dynamic engine mounts from the AMG GT.

C63 has the carbon fiber driveshaft from the AMG GT.

C63 has a completely different braking system (6-piston fixed front Brembos as standard with optional carbon ceramic rotors).

C63 has a completely bespoke interior (different seats, different steering wheel, different trim options, different gauges, AMG menu(s), different car setting buttons, etc.).

C63 has hydraulic steering.

Furthermore, the W205 C63 has an updated/upgraded version of the MCT, whereas the C450 has the same automatic transmission as the C400.

And on and on.

Originally Posted by gthal

So the C63 is only an upgraded engine over the C450? Hmmm... not sure if I like that.

You didn't honestly believe that for even a second, did you?

The C450 and the C63 share the same doors and a few other body panels (roof maybe?). That's about it.

See above.

Also,

C63 (Notice the massive 6-piston fixed front calipers; bespoke wheels, etc.):



C450 (Same Mercedes-Benz branded 4-piston calipers utilized by the C400; smaller rotors; AMG "Sport" rims, etc.):



C63 (A-wing front splitter; carbon fiber trim; AMG single-blade grille; twin power domes on hood, etc.):



C450 (Same as the C400 Sport front bumper with the CLA250 Sport Grille):



C63 (Notice the true AMG exhaust and carbon fiber diffuser; AMG badging; AMG carbon fiber spoiler, etc.):



C450 (Notice how it is badged C450 4MATIC):

[bimmerj]

ybbiz34, found it strange that you were completely absent from this discussion .

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

ybbiz34, found it strange that you were completely absent from this discussion .

haha i was waiting for him too.

[8600RPM]

Unfortunatly the new amp will destroy the m3 in straight and track. It wasn't out when I needed a car so got f80 but in 2 years, as much as I love the f80, I'll go with TT v8.it's going to be ridiculously fast. In mid 11s bone stock easy. Also should sound incredible and less lag than m3. To me it will be no contest

[swanson]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I think if you like MB, you should buy some of their products and let us know what you think when you actually drive/live with them.

It may be quite the contrary to what you expected.

I went and got the AMG C63 based on the reviews/magazines. It did not live up to my expectations.

Please buy some MB products and report back to us. Don't base opinions on magazines or articles or marketing hype (i am being general here- not pointing at u directly)

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by swanson

still trolling?

did you get your ats-v, cts-v, corvette yet?

no, that would be crazy, because you just comment on cars you don't own or will never own.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

still trolling?

did you get your ats-v, cts-v, corvette yet?

no, that would be crazy, because you just comment on cars you don't own or will never own.

Ok

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

ybbiz34, found it strange that you were completely absent from this discussion .

Originally Posted by dkhm3

haha i was waiting for him too.

[amanuuh]

Switched the order on my car. I now have a C63S on order. Pretty excited.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by amanuuh

Switched the order on my car. I now have a C63S on order. Pretty excited.

Congrats!

[SocalBM]

Deposit at local dealer for a few months now. Will follow through if the Wagon comes to the US, otherwise I'll look at something else for a daily.