Carbon Ceramic Brakes - Leaning to yes, your opinion?

[RSXDC5]

I have ccb's. Had the car for 1 month...love them so far. They are expensive yes, there's no way around that. I've always wanted a car with carbon/ceramic brakes so the option was a no brainier for me. I can't wait to take them to the track too.

Btw having no brake dust compared to the normal brakes that spew dust like a coal factory is pretty great. Once again it's expensive to lose the dust by getting the ccb's...but I don't regret it. Plus I could stomach the extra $100/mo it's added to my car payment.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

I have ccb's. Had the car for 1 month...love them so far. They are expensive yes, there's no way around that. I've always wanted a car with carbon/ceramic brakes so the option was a no brainier for me. I can't wait to take them to the track too.

Btw having no brake dust compared to the normal brakes that spew dust like a coal factory is pretty great. Once again it's expensive to lose the dust by getting the ccb's...but I don't regret it. Plus I could stomach the extra $100/mo it's added to my car payment.

Coming from a 2007 335i I have not found the brake dust to be anywhere near as bad. As I live in Manhattan and don't really need a car the M4 is a weekend car and I have it hand washed by the attendant every time I return it to the garage. The attendants tell me that the wheels on the M are much easier to keep clean. I figure I can pay for a lot of washes with $8,000.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Coming from a 2007 335i I have not found the brake dust to be anywhere near as bad. As I live in Manhattan and don't really need a car the M4 is a weekend car and I have it hand washed by the attendant every time I return it to the garage. The attendants tell me that the wheels on the M are much easier to keep clean. I figure I can pay for a lot of washes with $8,000.

Perfectly valid point(s)! As long as we are all happy with our purchase is all that matters!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

Perfectly valid point(s)! As long as we are all happy with our purchase is all that matters!

Agreed.

We get too much of If your can is not exactly like mine it is because you can't afford it or you aren't a "real" driver or some similar crap.

[04RC51]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Coming from a 2007 335i I have not found the brake dust to be anywhere near as bad. As I live in Manhattan and don't really need a car the M4 is a weekend car and I have it hand washed by the attendant every time I return it to the garage. The attendants tell me that the wheels on the M are much easier to keep clean. I figure I can pay for a lot of washes with $8,000.

Yeah, my attendant barely has to wash my wheels when I park in the city. He REALLY enjoys me getting the CCBs.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

Yeah, my attendant barely has to wash my wheels when I park in the city. He REALLY enjoys me getting the CCBs.

Plus that great fade resistance must be a huge advantage in Manhattan traffic.

[04RC51]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Plus that great fade resistance must be a huge advantage in Manhattan traffic.

Much like $5000 individual paint is a huge advantage anywhere. You should go into every individual paint thread and pound the table like you did in a CCB thread that you have no interest in buying and have never tried.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

The "I hate them but never tried them and heard this and heard that and heard they only last one track day and heard BMW won't replace them and heard they cost $25k per corner to replace" people are some of the most annoying, bitter people on the face of the Earth!

Can you believe that every GTS is going to be delivered with them and they are going to be jammed down the throat of every hardcore track enthusiast and they will be forced to pay all that money for horrible brakes that aren't any better than steels and they will all have to give up their first born children to place them after just one track day? Can u believe BMW is doing that to the future GTS owners? The same people in this thread are the same ones that will be saying "I could've spend $40k in mods and made a better car than the GTS, you all wasted your money!".

Originally Posted by 04RC51

I love how so many people with no intention of buying CCBs, no experience in a car with them and nothing other than "I've heard" comments spend so much time in a thread about CCBs? If I don't like the color of an individual paint that someone paid $5000 for, I wouldn't spend countless posts in a thread about it? This place gets all kinds of weirdos I guess.

Folks come to the forum asking for advice regarding the CCB, probing for opinions. Some of us have done some research and have spent good time pondering the pros and cons of the CCB and iron setups to try to make the most educated choice for our use. We are simply sharing that feedback in an objective manner with those that are inquiring.

This thread is not about "I got CCB and love them". The OP is asking for opinions.

You on the other hand, are only throwing useless insults. You sound like the bitter one. That does not contribute much to the thread.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

Much like $5000 individual paint is a huge advantage anywhere. You should go into every individual paint thread and pound the table like you did in a CCB thread that you have no interest in buying and have never tried.

I get 50+ track days a year with my drivers club and get to drive a variety of interesting cars.
I made it very clear that I had tried ceramic brakes both on the track and on the street and that I did not like the way they felt when cold. Perhaps I would feel differently if I lived with them for a few weeks but that opportunity did not avail itself.

I also made it clear that I discussed it at length with several pro drivers who agreed with me about the feel and advised me that for my use of the car they were not a good fit. I have to admit that I am going to put more stock in the opinion of a friend who is a driver for Ferrari and a pro racer than some random poster on the internet.

I feel that I have no need for ceramic brakes but that does not mean that I think that anyone that bought them made a poor decision. They are very likely overkill but in reality a strong argument could be made that the entire M4 is overkill.

Do you have any experience driving an M4 with steel brakes and did you find them inferior to the CCBs and if so in what ways? The question I asked, which no one seems to be able to answer, is "Do they stop better than steel brakes" since slowing down the car is the main function of brakes. Cool looking calipers and low brake dust are nice perks but are not the primary reason I would go for CCBs.

[absoluteis350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I was referring to track use not normal/commuter use

Check the Porsche GT3 forums. That's the place to look for a longer history of CCB track users. There are definitely owners replacing the CCB with steel rotors to keep cost down for their tracked GT3

Not sure many track an M5 or M6 so that's not a great place to look, in my opinion

I'm not trying to justify anything, just want to make sure OP is fully aware of the potential cost if he tracks his car heavily

True.. but we should all be clear these are POTENTIAL costs. Just like blowing your oil cooler, and seizing the engine almost immediately, is a potential cost of owning this car (and FAR more likely to happen in my subjective opinion).

As others have mentioned, CCB experience on the Porsche forums, while interesting, is not directly applicable. Yes, it is something to consider, but I wouldn't get too worked up until I see posts on the M3/4 forums with brake issues.

And I still think its laughable that people believe that the M Gruppe designed a brake system with NO advantages over the stock brakes.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

True.. but we should all be clear these are POTENTIAL costs. Just like blowing your oil cooler, and seizing the engine almost immediately, is a potential cost of owning this car (and FAR more likely to happen in my subjective opinion).

As others have mentioned, CCB experience on the Porsche forums, while interesting, is not directly applicable. Yes, it is something to consider, but I wouldn't get too worked up until I see posts on the M3/4 forums with brake issues.

And I still think its laughable that people believe that the M Gruppe designed a brake system with NO advantages over the stock brakes.

I don't see anyone claiming that the CCBs have NO advantage over the stock brakes. The question is where and when can those advantages be put to use and are those advantages at the expense of some disadvantages.

[Tempe Mendoan]

MCCB never fails me. I have it and love it just as much as steel brake owners do love theirs.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

True.. but we should all be clear these are POTENTIAL costs. Just like blowing your oil cooler, and seizing the engine almost immediately, is a potential cost of owning this car (and FAR more likely to happen in my subjective opinion).

As others have mentioned, CCB experience on the Porsche forums, while interesting, is not directly applicable. Yes, it is something to consider, but I wouldn't get too worked up until I see posts on the M3/4 forums with brake issues.

And I still think its laughable that people believe that the M Gruppe designed a brake system with NO advantages over the stock brakes.

for someone doing 20+ track days a year I would not characterize ccb replacement cost as "potential cost".

I looked into ccb at length and could not find info from people with that level of usage because all heavy track users on this forum opted for steel rotor plus aftermarket pads (I don't think fts has done 20 days on his car yet?)

I did find much info from Porsche ccb owners switching to steel rotors and anecdotes such as "2400 miles on track" for bmw Ccb and the fact most heavy track users here opted out and made the decision off that.

For purposes of this thread, this is a moot point. Op has stated his car is street only. It's most definitely more of a cosmetic / status option at that point in my eyes. For a heavy track user I guess that's between buyer and their pocket book to decide to gather data for the f8x community.

[tigerwoods2002]

and don't forget the best argument for the CCBs:

You are cutting off over 14kg of non-suspended mass!!!!!

That really makes a difference!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by tigerwoods2002

and don't forget the best argument for the CCBs:

You are cutting off over 14kg of non-suspended mass!!!!!

That really makes a difference!

It is actually more like 14.5lb (6.6kg), not 14kg.

A reduction of ~3.6lb non-suspended mass per corner remains a tangible benefit (I actually said more than once that it is probably the most significant performance benefit of CCB on track), albeit not a huge one, especially for street use.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by tigerwoods2002

and don't forget the best argument for the CCBs:

You are cutting off over 14kg of non-suspended mass!!!!!

That really makes a difference!

And then you are adding some back on because the CCBs require 19" rims. I seriously doubt that the weight difference would be very noticeable in anything approaching normal driving but there is no denying that they reduce unsprung weight and that reducing unsprung is desirable.

[JTmarlin]

I was set on CCB's based on some responses and doing more research, but then came across the guys who have experienced damaged/ruined wheels because of the clearance issue with the CCB's. That's awfully concerning, as looks are most important to me with a weekend driven street car.

[04RC51]

Originally Posted by JTmarlin

I was set on CCB's based on some responses and doing more research, but then came across the guys who have experienced damaged/ruined wheels because of the clearance issue with the CCB's. That's awfully concerning, as looks are most important to me with a weekend driven street car.

They are not ruined? They have scratches around the inside that most people couldn't care any less about. Far from ruined unless you are a complete maniac.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I looked into ccb at length and could not find info from people with that level of usage because all heavy track users on this forum opted for steel rotor plus aftermarket pads (I don't think fts has done 20 days on his car yet?)

I did find much info from Porsche ccb owners switching to steel rotors and anecdotes such as "2400 miles on track" for bmw Ccb and the fact most heavy track users here opted out and made the decision off that.

The reasoning from Porsche owners tracking their cars are slightly different and IMHO are not applicable to the F8x owners. You really need to be in their shoes to understand and I wrote about that many times before. For clarity: this is not to say or imply that CCBs are better on or off track, it is just about properly interpreting facts.

As for my experience with CCBs on track, I have thus far put only ~170 track miles on them and have ~7500 street miles. My OEM pads are at about 60-65% at this time, car is showing 140K miles before pad change front and rear. However, I am not one that will trust the car and I do believe it is best to not leave pads that are 50% worn for track duty. I have an 3-day event coming up next week, and new front pads are going in for that.

Anyways, if you want to follow the feedback we are trying gather on track usage of CCBs, the thread is here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1107406

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It is actually more like 14.5lb (6.6kg), not 14kg.

A reduction of ~3.6lb non-suspended mass per corner remains a tangible benefit (I actually said more than once that it is probably the most significant performance benefit of CCB on track), albeit not a huge one, especially for street use.

It's actually -12.5kg of rotational mass... HUGE DIFFERENCE

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

And then you are adding some back on because the CCBs require 19" rims. I seriously doubt that the weight difference would be very noticeable in anything approaching normal driving but there is no denying that they reduce unsprung weight and that reducing unsprung is desirable.

You are wrong

Losing 12.5kg of rotational mass is a big deal...

People with regular brakes get 19's as well..So you're saying its not gna make a difference?

CCB's with 19's have less rotational mass than 18's with regular brakes

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

It's actually -12.5kg of rotational mass... HUGE DIFFERENCE

Let's not confuse rotational mass and unsprung weight.

I did the calculation a little while back, and the equivalent weight reduction provided by the CCB on the entire vehicle considering intertial impacts of the rotating mass equates to about 20lb. Any weight reduction is welcome, but I would not call it huge.

IMO, the 3.6lb reduction in unsprung mass provided by the CCB is more significant in terms of performance through improved handling.