A crisis of faith in the M4

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Because I couldn't get this one in the first post.

Attachment 985457

This looks far better than the ungainly Panamera.

[Alpine F31]

My car LOOKS 'the business' as our friends in the UK would say. But the more I drive it the more I have to confess there is nothing special about it. It's not bad, but all the things people have said (isolated, light disconnected steering, soft etc) are all glaringly obvious now. I overlooked all of that during the "honeymoon" period with my car. I still like it, but I don't love it. I have high hopes that the new M4 will recapture that magic that I have always experienced in every BMW I've driven...except the one I bought.

[LSM]

I can give you a real world comparison with a 6 series. I had a 6 series GC M sport and thought it handled not so great and the steering sucked. My M6 is way way different...The M4 will handle as it should imo..

[imserious]

The M4 will be a much better daily driver than the E9X M3.

If you don't really push the E9X M3 you won't get why it is special. The new M4 will have a much broader appeal.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

But the more I drive it the more I have to confess there is nothing special about it. It's not bad, but all the things people have said (isolated, light disconnected steering, soft etc) are all glaringly obvious now. I overlooked all of that during the "honeymoon" period with my car. I still like it, but I don't love it. I have high hopes that the new M4 will recapture that magic that I have always experienced in every BMW I've driven...except the one I bought.

What you said above describes exactly why I parted ways with my F30 M Sport 335i. I added every single M Performance part available (exhaust, power kit, brakes, front lip, spoiler, etc.) and the car still didn't feel sharp enough. It displayed too much body roll. It was easy for road imperfections to upset the car's balance. It felt a bit "floaty" at times.

The ZF 8-speed Sport Auto. was a joy though. That transmission and the N55 make the perfect match.

I'm hoping/expecting the F80 M3 to feel like an entirely different animal.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

My car LOOKS 'the business' as our friends in the UK would say. But the more I drive it the more I have to confess there is nothing special about it. It's not bad, but all the things people have said (isolated, light disconnected steering, soft etc) are all glaringly obvious now. I overlooked all of that during the "honeymoon" period with my car. I still like it, but I don't love it. I have high hopes that the new M4 will recapture that magic that I have always experienced in every BMW I've driven...except the one I bought.

Uh oh better change your name to alpine f81!

[pkimM3r]

I've been eyeing that Quattro for a while now though. Looks good.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

It's not just C&D. The 4-Series just came out but there have been plenty reviews both pros and cons for the 3-series which is basically the same car. Examples:

Motor Trend - H2H Against S4. BMW lost for reasons similar to what C&D said.

Motor Trend - H2H Against MB350 and ATS 3.6. Caddy wins due to more fun to drive, firmer ride and handling, etc.. similar to what C&D said.

Road & Track - Against Lexus IS, Caddy & Infiniti. Lexus wins. Here's their comment on the Bimmer:

"Sadly, it's not enough. The 335i's wants, compared with both past BMWs and the winner of this test, are stacked a little too deep. This is a hell of a car. But we had more fun with, and ultimately wanted to spend more time in, something else."

Sound familiar? Historically, the 3-Series won almost all comparison tests done by the big 3 (C&D, R&T, MT). That is, until the F3x came along and started losing. It's not clear cut as every Tom, Dick and Mary are doing car review these days, but the message is pretty consistent.

On the bright side, with the F8x being developed with the spirit of the E46 M3 in mind, I am hopeful that the F8x bucks recent trend of softer BMW's. If I buy BMW again, it will be the M3/4 on that hope.

To be fair, the 28i has won most if not all of its comparison tests. Its the 35i that seems to be having trouble.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Very well said!

I have no doubts that M3/M4 won't disappoint. The only two things that make me wait for real world reviews by respected media and eventually by myself is:

a) The new steering (I did not like the steering of the 2014 Boxster S that I had a test drive with here);
b) The size (in the sense that if I would feel comfortable with a car this size; I felt my old E90 330i was bigger than I wanted it to be and I really love the size of the 1M).

That's about it, the rest of everything regarding the F80 M3 is made to win.

Afterall, it might be one of the last cars we can buy new with a real manual option combined with an inline six at the front and traction at the rear plus the most sophisticated diferential of its time.

I really hope it will give the same visceral connection so typical of a BMW M like Z3 and Z4 Coupes, E46 M3 and lately the 1M offered. That is the real reason which makes me choose a BMW over others.

Very good post !

Exactly my doubts as well, loving the size of the 1M, and looking out for a successor I have a Cayaman S in sight , possible an F82 M4

I dol like the size of the Cayman S (which is pretty on par with the 1M) but a proud 150 kg lighter and I have strong doubts about the size of the M4 (weight is nearly the same as the 1M) coming from an E92 M3 which was too big for my taste.

I did have na testdrive with the Cayman and I have still some thoughts about the EPS vs the 1M hydraulic steering.
The new M4 EPS has to be evaluated yet.....will wait for reviews and my own testdrive.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Romo

Very good post !

Exactly my doubts as well, loving the size of the 1M, and looking out for a successor I have a Cayaman S in sight , possible an F82 M4

I dol like the size of the Cayman S (which is pretty on par with the 1M) but a proud 150 kg lighter and I have strong doubts about the size of the M4 (weight is nearly the same as the 1M) coming from an E92 M3 which was too big for my taste.

I did have na testdrive with the Cayman and I have still some thoughts about the EPS vs the 1M hydraulic steering.
The new M4 EPS has to be evaluated yet.....will wait for reviews and my own testdrive.

M have apparently developed the new car around the steering. They have thrown everything at it and developed it in conjunction with other components.

In the interview I read they seem very confident that this car will have one of if not the best EPS in the world - inc the new Porsche system.
They are claiming it surpasses the steering in the E9x M3.
Obviously well have to wait and see but I have high hopes.

[Crisis]

:-(

[UK6]

I'm not sure a magazine would have driven the car yet so not mentioning it is hardly surprising, if they did it would be no more than the speculation seen on this forum, rather than a review style bought advertisement that the motoring press usually publish.

[onatuesday]

Well except for what I am cautiously optimistic will be true for the M4. But unlike some ppl on this forum I'm not blindly assuming BMW made a great car. To me the burden is still on BMW to prove they can deliver after the uninspiring cars they've recently been churning out. I have a deposit on the M4 but truth be told it's more because the new C63/S4/S5/RS5/CTS-V/ heck even the Lexus RC F aren't available for at least another year. Only time (and some seriously wicked test drives) will tell

[JTO24]

I'm not a BMW fanboi by any means.. I've had great luck with my former and current BMWs and they've been a blast to drive. I'm looking forward to the F8x but I'm also excited to see the competition.. I'm still giving the nod to BMW because of the weight loss and 6mt but the new c63 and rs5 should be exciting too.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by imserious

The M4 will be a much better daily driver than the E9X M3.

If you don't really push the E9X M3 you won't get why it is special. The new M4 will have a much broader appeal.

You said it. I don't "really push" my cars and never track them, which is why I will never truly appreciate the subtleties between the 335i and M3. And that is exactly my point. Most folks like myself will not be able to tell the difference between both cars, yet some will claim to be able to and go along with all the marketing hype associated with ///M cars in general.


Anyway, not trying to stir stuff up here. I hope my comments are not too abrasive. Just my opinion obviously, which should mean very little to anyone else. Venting.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by UK6

I'm not sure a magazine would have driven the car yet so not mentioning it is hardly surprising, if they did it would be no more than the speculation seen on this forum, rather than a review style bought advertisement that the motoring press usually publish.

Very good point.

[Grock]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

You said it. I don't "really push" my cars and never track them, which is why I will never truly appreciate the subtleties between the 335i and M3. And that is exactly my point. Most folks like myself will not be able to tell the difference between both cars, yet some will claim to be able to and go along with all the marketing hype associated with ///M cars in general.


Anyway, not trying to stir stuff up here. I hope my comments are not too abrasive. Just my opinion obviously, which should mean very little to anyone else. Venting.

It appears that BMW 320i is what you should be looking at.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

You said it. I don't "really push" my cars and never track them, which is why I will never truly appreciate the subtleties between the 335i and M3. And that is exactly my point. Most folks like myself will not be able to tell the difference between both cars, yet some will claim to be able to and go along with all the marketing hype associated with ///M cars in general.


Anyway, not trying to stir stuff up here. I hope my comments are not too abrasive. Just my opinion obviously, which should mean very little to anyone else. Venting.

If you don't notice any differences or appreciate them, then you'll never understand what makes M, AMG and RS cars so special.

[JS919]

What else would you expect from Car & Driver?
I read the articles for entertainment value only. I don't trust their opinion. They have proven to have a ridiculous bias towards certain manufacturers. Just look at the fact that every review of the F3X they've done they pretty much hated it. Yet they still give it the 10 best award. I think there bias hasn't always been consistent over the years. it's like maybe proportional to the amount of advertising money they receive from a manufacturer.. I've personally owned both vehicles in this comparison. I'll take the 435i M-sport all day long. The S5 is getting old and to me it's showing.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

You said it. I don't "really push" my cars and never track them, which is why I will never truly appreciate the subtleties between the 335i and M3. And that is exactly my point. Most folks like myself will not be able to tell the difference between both cars, yet some will claim to be able to and go along with all the marketing hype associated with ///M cars in general.


Anyway, not trying to stir stuff up here. I hope my comments are not too abrasive. Just my opinion obviously, which should mean very little to anyone else. Venting.

I had a much different experience to yourself. I found the M3 to feel so much more special than the 335i even in regular spirited driving, not talking about thrashing it around a track, just going out for a fun drive. You don't need to be on a racetrack to feel he difference between these 2 cars- I felt it straight away on my drive home from the dealers, the sound , every corner ( even when not pushing the car) and every turn of the steering wheel.
I think it would be great not to have felt a marked difference between the 2 cars..... i would have been happy with a 335i then and saved myself a lot of cash!

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Grock

It appears that BMW 320i is what you should be looking at.

Truth be told, it's a very compelling package. BMW did a great job with that car. Personally, I would be more interested in a 328i xDrive in 6MT, but they don't make them.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by ss134

I had a much different experience to yourself. I found the M3 to feel so much more special than the 335i even in regular spirited driving, not talking about thrashing it around a track, just going out for a fun drive. You don't need to be on a racetrack to feel he difference between these 2 cars- I felt it straight away on my drive home from the dealers, the sound , every corner ( even when not pushing the car) and every turn of the steering wheel.
I think it would be great not to have felt a marked difference between the 2 cars..... i would have been happy with a 335i then and saved myself a lot of cash!

In my case, I guess ignorance is bliss. But just for the record, what I am saying is that the e90/92 M3 is a special car, just an over rated one. The performance delta between the e90/f30 335i and e90/92 M3 for my daily driving and occasional spirited driving purposes is not that significant, IMO.


The f80 will be a different story. I do believe that car will be a significant improvement over the f30 335i, just judging by how disconnected and relatively softer the f30 335i has become. The steering sure does not help. I suspect once the f80 has been released, this will become more and more evident.


Anyway, sorry to side track the thread here. I'll stop now.