07-30-2021, 04:15 PM | #1 |
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The Turbos+EU5+LiftKit thread
I see many of us are in-works with this new combo:
- bigger turbos - Dorch vacuum pump lift kit - stock HPFPs - EU5 direct injectors - custom tune for Turbos+EU5+Dorch - (optional) piggyback LPFP and Hobbs - (optional) extra beef or built motor Our intention seems to be retention of the DME as the single controller for fueling reliability and fail-safes. Current part vendor statements tout about 30% increased fuel volume delivery with this setup. Fuels and goals will vary… Let's use this thread as a log of our progress. If you have a setup in-works or in-use please post with your setup details, end goals, and current progress. If you have a Stage1 HPFPs instead of (or added to) the lift kit please post too, since this is similar in fueling capacity. Notes/Disclaimers: - If you're just asking questions and haven't invested yet, please hold off and read the EU5 injector thread first. Yes it needs custom tuned fuel maps and a small mixture reset, no OTS tune will do. - Yes this voids your warranty, and some will eat a motor. This is Pay-To-Play for sure.
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07-30-2021, 04:17 PM | #2 |
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My build is in-works at BMB in NJ.
- spare built motor and head in works - Kratos EVOs coming in 2 weeks - Dorch vac pump arrived, core returned - EU5 injectors in-hand, flow tested by RC I plan on putting this in a DCT M3 for quarter mile dragstrip use. My goal is to get into the Nines. I haven't finalized on the DCT build yet since I was planning to build my stick F80 but the motor will be too much for the manual. I already have synchro buzz shifting a 600WHP Paul balls-out tune.
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07-30-2021, 06:07 PM | #3 |
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Current build awaiting the E85 portion of a flex-fuel tune via Cary Jordan.
- Stock Motor - AR Design High-Flow Catted DP's - BMC Drop-in's - Kratos KRAS55Bi turbo's - EU5 Injectors - Dorch Vacuum Pump Lift Kit - Bend Calibration Flex-Fuel w/Zeitronix ECA-2 - Stock HPFP's - Stock LPFP - Clutch Masters FX250 w/Stock DMFW My main goal for this build is really more of a set-it and forget-it type of beast (hence the flex-fuel) that keeps the stock DME fail-safe protocols in place without introducing too many additional points of potential failure. I'm not looking to break any records mind you, just enjoy the thrill of driving a high-powered and well tuned driving machine with enough bastard hiding under the hood to snap necks Cary and I have been working on the 93 octane road tune, but are scheduled to head in next week in order to polish it up on the dyno and work on the E85 half of the flex-tune. I went ahead and performed a before dyno of my car with a Stage 2 custom Jordan tune so it will be easier to compare delta's. I'm also considering having a HCP flex-tune performed down the line on the same dyno for the sake of comparison.
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08-02-2021, 09:07 AM | #4 |
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I read through the installation instructions for that lift pump kit, WOW! If you are doing this mod and haven't addressed the crank hub in anyway, this would be the perfect opportunity to knock out both things at the same time!
Edit, sorry, wasn't addressed to you Jimmy! I meant for anyone reading this considering the lift pump upgrade. |
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08-02-2021, 09:26 PM | #5 | |
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08-03-2021, 05:16 PM | #6 |
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So my dyno tune session with Jordan Tuned was today, and if I'm being quite honest I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's tuner related or mod related, but it does leave me with questions. I will state that communication and turn around on revisions was great despite their voice communication system being down.
A few caveats before the results: the tune was performed remotely via DynoJet but utilized SAE correction as opposed to STD correction during the majority of the pulls until the dyno operator figured out how to adjust them. Jordan Tuned also thinks that I may have a small boost leak somewhere (my builder is looking into it this week), and BM3 stopped communicating with my DME on the tail end of the E85 tune so we didn't have an opportunity to hit final revision status. We started off by polishing up the 93 octane road tune; based on some of the results I'd seen I expected to be able to hit the magical 600whp mark relatively easy. Numbers aren't everything, but after a baseline 506wtq and 483whp on a custom stage 2 tune, I admit that expected a bit more than 561wtq and 539whp. While SAE does use a more strict correction factor, and if there is a boost leak it could obviously effect the outcome, I was informed that we we're "octane limited" which was a bit confusing given the reported results others have experienced on not only Kratos turbos, but Pures and GC's as well. The E85 tune took some time, and we did experience some boost spiking which could have been attributed to the suspected boost leak. Although we didn't have the chance to finish it up due to the DME having communication issues, one of the last successful runs we had (STD correction) was 695wtq and 662whp. I have to admit, on a stock bottom end the 695wtq concerns me, and 662whp when alternate fueling typically nets 700whp+ feels off. Again, this could either be a limitation of the EU5's and upgraded HPFP's or the simple fact that we weren't able to finalize the tune. Ultimately, I'm left unsure. The 93 octane tune left me feeling subpar, and the E85 results are concerning to me (albeit unfinished). I'm still considering moving forward with Halim and HCP being that he worked directly with Kratos and Dorch with the EU5 injectors previously, but I'll want to check for a boost leak first obviously. I'm still learning to read the logs, but nothing drastic jumps out at me; if one of you guys wouldn't mind taking a look though I would be appreciated so I have a better idea of what to look for. Data Log Links 93 octane :https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431bdc8a387c E85: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431c63426ca0
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08-03-2021, 08:50 PM | #7 |
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MJ6 for big turbos and improved fueling I'm feeling the same as you looking at those charts.
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08-04-2021, 06:51 AM | #9 |
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08-04-2021, 08:04 AM | #11 | ||
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From what it looks like the 93octane tune hit 26psi tapering to about 23psi at the top end, and E85 hit 34psi tapering to 29psi, both being very respectable targets (if not high on the E85 side). Quote:
Another option I'm considering is working with Avtandil over at ABP as he's been working the EU5's for quite awhile now and actually suggested the Dorch upgrade when I spoke to him last. While I'd like to get HCP on board, they've been difficult to nail down.
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08-04-2021, 08:26 AM | #12 |
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This is the kind of stuff I wanted in this thread.
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08-04-2021, 08:59 AM | #13 |
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Looks like you need to find that boost leak and pray your rods stay together. 92% gate on E85, you shouldn't even be looking at the dyno. I'd say Jordan did a pretty good job based on the logs given the situation.
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08-04-2021, 09:17 AM | #14 | |
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The rods are honestly one thing that still concerns me; at one point we had it up around 655wtq which is where I figured we'd stay for the sake of safety; why I kept seeing an increase in torque after it was mentioned that we needed to keep it below 680 on the stock bottom end is beyond me. If the WGDC was that high, along with a potential boost leak and torque values above what could be considered safe, why wasn't the plug pulled? Again, we didn't have a chance to finalize the tune due to DME communication issues, but I almost feel like it may have been a saving grace at that point.
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08-04-2021, 09:28 AM | #15 | ||
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08-04-2021, 09:48 AM | #16 | |
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08-05-2021, 09:31 AM | #17 | |
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We also noticed that you have quite a bit of timing correction occurring on the pump gas log. We're not going to speculate as to the cause of this, but it's definitely robbing quite a bit of power as you should be well into the mid 600whp mark on just 93 octane alone based on all the data we've collected as well as what's been posted by others. Lastly, both logs show HPFP targets to be significantly higher than what's needed considering you have the Dorch lift kit installed. The Dorch lift kit increases HPFP volume by 38% and therefore does not require 3700psi+ fuel targets once installed. In addition, high HPFP targets are directly related to DI injector failure. We target a HPFP average of 2900-3000psi with the Dorch lift kit and EU5's installed on E85 and have produced amazing results with fuel to spare. As a matter of fact, just yesterday one of SSR Performance's customers cars just produced 800whp with EU5's on E85 and stock HPFP's. Granted, this is a built engine car that is still in the process of being tuned with the power turned up but that doesn't change the fact that EU5 injectors alone can support 800whp safely on E85. Once you address these issues you'll be well on your way to producing the power level that should be expected of your setup. |
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08-05-2021, 10:03 AM | #18 | ||
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My mechanic who performed the installation has the car now and will be performing a smoke test to check for boost leaks, so hopefully it sheds some light on things. On the timing side, I did only have about a gallon of 93 in the tank at the time to facilitate swapping over to E85. I'm wondering if by being so low the fuel might not have been as pure down low (possible tank sediment contamination?) or if the car has some kind of safety measures in place to prevent starvation at low fuel levels. In the future I plan on doing two separate sessions on full tanks for each fuel. The HPFP values stuck out to me as well as one of the logs from belittle's car with the Spool FX150 HPFP system recorded target pressures of only 2900, much lower than the 3700 my logs were showing. The EU5's are brand new and calibrated via ISTA, so I'm left wondering if the difference could potentially be attributed to not being scaled correctly. If I'm being honest, when I initially let Jordan Tuned know that I planned on using EU5 injectors I received and email stating that they "highly recommended you "DO NOT" use the EU5 injectors(will just create problems/issues). Better to go with Auxiliary Fueling (Port Injection or Methanol Injection)." In hind sight it's making me wonder if their unfamiliarity with them is playing a big part in that regard. All said, I'm hoping the boost leak can be identified this week, and I've reached out to both HCP and ABP (two tuners KNOWN to have extensive experience with EU5 injectors on this platform) so I'll be moving forward with one of them depending on who's more responsive at this point.
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08-05-2021, 12:01 PM | #19 |
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Kudos and Good Vibes to Sales@KRATOS for reading logs and chiming in with the good knowledge. This is a big reason why I buy from them.
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08-05-2021, 12:17 PM | #20 | |
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08-05-2021, 12:18 PM | #21 |
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08-05-2021, 06:41 PM | #22 | ||
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Im stock motor if that makes a difference to your answer. |
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