2007 997 turbo or M3 F80

[Krajo15]

I'm curious on what people have to say on this board. I've owned an E92 and recently a F80 M3 which is about to be deemed lemon under the CA law.

I love BMWs but I have been looking at 997 Turbos lately. Has anyone driven a 997 turbo and what are your thoughts? I know I will lose some things like a back seat in the 997 compared to the f80, warranty will null on the 997, older technology in terms of nav an interior looks, and DCT transmission which I like for the track.

Little about my current F80 which has made me start to think about getting a 997 turbo:

-Current f80 has been at the dealership being serviced for the past 6-7 weeks. They can't figure out why the car is drifting to right. They have swapped out control arms, swivel bearings, shocks/struts, steering pieces, and tires/rims without any success. I love the M division cars but now I have to figure out what to going forward which is why I want to hear from you.

What I want out of a car -

I want a good handling car that can be a daily driver. I would like to track the car 2-3 year. I'm looking for a car that can be tuned to the track an have good reliability too hence the 997 motor.

I know the f80 has potential and I love the new technology but sometimes I wonder if its losing its touch with the road - thinking out loud. The 997 can be tuned to over 800 HP which is not my goal but a car around 600-700 with a great track setup would be ideal. Sharkwerks out here in the bay has done some great things with the 997 - great tuning and suspension work. I have found a 2007 turbo for 60k with 40k miles on it - manual too.

Please chime in and let me know your thoughts. It is hard to test drive a Porsche out here and get a feel for a 997 since everything is 2010 and newer.

Sad to see my F80 be classified as a lemon but also glad I was able to take care of it with low miles on the car.

thanks for you help..

[dharo1]

Two different cars for different needs. When choosing a vehicle, it's a good idea to follow the brain rather than the heart.

[alms21]

I've owned E92M3 and 997 Turbo and would never again attempt to make a 911 a daily driver. I tried it with a 997S before I bought the 997 Turbo (which was then a weekend car) and failed miserably. Too noisy, pain in the ass to shove drycleaning, golf clubs, etc. into the back seat, lacking tech compared to M3. The size of the 911 wore on me as well for a daily driver. When you only drive it but a day or two a week, you wouldn't notice nearly as much if at all. The M3 will provide you much more comfort tech and utility for a daily driver......plus give you all the performance you will need.

I say this being a big Porsche fan. I've owned quite a few. But for a performance oriented daily driver, I find the M3/M4 to be damn near unbeatable.

[x3ster]

I have been bit by the porsche bug myself. Prior to the scooping the F82 was looking at a 997 GTS. Drove a few and would have purchased one however could not reach an agreed price with the seller.

In hindsight am very glad I did not go that route. You mentioned DD. Not too sure there are very many 911s that fit that category. If you really young and extreme it might work. Bottom line you better have a second car. Space inside and cargo space will be an issue.

I still want a 911 or Cayman. Ill only get one as a second car or 3rd for that matter. I do feel the porsche was more sorted out and can mention 2 things that will stick with me about my driving experience on the 911 GTS. One the manual was the best I have ever tried. Have had honda sticks (accord and s2000) , an e90 stick and a few others not worth mentioning. In relation to the GTS they were all missing something. It was not only the way the 911 shifted but the ratios and the way the clutch would engage from one gear to the next. Revs came down quickly and seemed to be a more natural experience than other sticks I've driven. Prior to the GTS have felt Im waiting on revs to come down on every car Ive driven that is stick. Quick shifting or my style of shift seemed to fit the 911 GTS perfectly. FYI- I would say I'm an Ok stick shift driver. 8 out of 10 no pro status.

2nd was the engine sound from inside the car. Unreal. Felt like I was part of the motor just humming along. Prior to driving the GTS's felt the porsche sound was just OK. Really a different beast from inside the car. I can not wait to hear that sound again in the near future. I also image the turbo does not sound as good as the GTS.

Last thoughts. In terms of DD. An 8 year old car with 500-600 hp seems like it would be prone to issues more than a new M. You might be back in the same boat as your M experience but worse. Out of pocket $ and no loaner. Could get expensive and painful. I do realize you are coming off a lemon but would seriously consider a second M3/M4. I agree with the person who stated its hard to touch an m4/m3 for DD use. Also think the 07 911 interior is pretty dated and not what one would want for 60k.. The center stack and steering wheel are rough.

Hope this helps. If you still stuck on the 911 would suggest a newer 11 or 12 GTS. Or hold off till you can swing a newer turbo. Maybe CPO (@100k). Lastly suggest a over rev report on any stick shift porsche you are looking at. Will help let you know if she is cherry or ragged out.

Best of luck and hope my .02 help with your decision.

[Krajo15]

Thanks for the responses. I do agree with the interior being dated and I'm glad someone stated it could be a good second car not first. The fiance is about to get a Range Rover Evoke for her business (little small for me) but she likes it - still need a DD for me which is probably why I'll look at a M3/M4.

Good point on no loaner since it is out of warranty and I didn't think about the dry cleaning issue plus lack of storage space with I go driving for a weekend out here in Norcal.

I think at some point I would like to own a Porsche Turbo or GT3. I know they are great cars and build to be driven.

thanks again...

[dmk08]

I have considered trading my F80 M3 in for a Raptor and a 997.1 TT 6MT. After test driving some 911 turbos I know I couldn't use it as a single DD and weekend car. The dated interior for a weekend won't be that big of a deal to me as what I really want is the dated transmission

[x3ster]

Originally Posted by Krajo15

I want a good handling car that can be a daily driver. I would like to track the car 2-3 year. I'm looking for a car that can be tuned to the track an have good reliability too hence the 997 motor.

So I just looked over your original post for a second time. Seems like you are describing a M3/M4. 07 turbo would be too extreme for DD.

Also sorry for answering questions you did not even ask. Wanted to tell you about my experience: starting point was the 997 and ended on a M4.

If you go 07 911 turbo and add HP. Seems like you are trying to take a track car (shark works, adding HP, suspension) and make it a daily driver. As opposed to having a daily driver that you take to the track 2-3 times a year.

Sounds like you need more budget or need to wait on the 911. Or come at this from a different angle. Meaning you need or want a DD and something beast on the side. For the track or just hammering it out when you need to. Best bet to have a plan that is right than trying to make a car something it is not. I have had too many cars that were TRYING to filling too many voids. I am of the note to have a vehicle for every need or the right tool for the job. I plan to have a sports car, cruiser or GT, a truck and/or SUV. This works better than getting say a x6m. Only real void left for me is a true sports car. Thus comes the 911 GTS or Cayman GTS...I have a few trucks, a great long cruiser 4 door, the M4 and an SUV

[sshu]

I recently debated between a M4, M6 and 997tt. At the end of the day I went with the 997tt. My scenario is slightly different because I have a daily driver(02 LS430) so I would either keep the LS and get the 997tt or sell the LS and daily the M4/M6. The 997tt would be tough as a daily. The car is low, rough, loud, and not easy to get in and out of. The 997tt just feels special to me and I always wanted one. The driving experience is second to none and the car is a beast out of the box(exhaust is too quiet though). I picked up a CPO one so I have 24 months of peace of mind but it is a 8 year old car. If you have a short commute and can pick up a CPO one, then I think you should go for a 997tt if that's what your heart really wants. If you have the garage space you can also pick up a cheap daily and get the 997tt for the weekends. As a overall daily driver package the M4 is hard to beat but for me the 997tt was the car I really wanted and I was willing to drive a daily beater just so I can drive a 997tt a few times a week.

[nicknaz]

Go with the mezger engine 997.1 TT 6mt and mod away

I would do that if my f80 was totaled. I daily drove a ninja then a z435 for years so I am not seeing any practicality issues with a 911

[krnnerdboy]

If I were going 911 for DAILY then I would be in a 991

997 for weekend

[adc]

They say every man should have a 911 at some point. Get the Turbo, set aside $10k for incidentals (seriously), and own it for 1-2 years during which time it won't depreciate as much as a new M.

Forget mods, it is fast enough and track ready enough even stock. I think it will take you some time to extract the full potential out of a stock 911 Turbo.

Then a year or two down the line, reassess. See how satisfying it has been, how reliable etc. BMW will still make an M3/4 then if you want to go back.

[ghost34]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

If I were going 911 for DAILY then I would be in a 991

997 for weekend

991 all the way, I thought about a 997 in oct until I drove a 991, but I just couldn't find a 991 in my price range. but after driving the 991, the 997 got booted off my list. just couldn't buy it knowing there was a better porsche out there

[pcbrs]

Dear OP,

I went through a similar deliberation as you, and hope my insights will save you some $$$ and time.

In early 2014, I bought a 1 owner 2008 997.1 911TT with less than 2000 miles on it for an excellent price. It was black on black 6MT with Sports Chrono, adaptive seats, ceramic brakes, leather everything, etc... almost all the options and in pristine condition. It quenched my thirst for a 911, but failed in several respects for me (I know others may disagree).

1. It is not a great daily driver.
- This is a personal preference issue, but entry and exit out of the car is difficult, especially in normal parking spots at work. It's not about how big you are, but about how much that door has to swing open to let you in or out.
- The front end clearance will cause constant scrapes along the front lip, unless you drive at 1 mph at a 45 degree angle over bumps.
- The NAV, HVAC, phone, sound system are all 2 generations behind. They feel so out of date, and the plastic is known to peel off.
- The frunk is not large enough for daily duties, such as grocery shopping.
- The rear area was tight for even my 5 year old in a Recaro child seat.

2. The Mezger engine is legendary, but there are long term quality issues.
- Clutch failure from either the slave cylinder or accumulator is very common. I had both in less than 1 year. A GT2 conversion is recommended for some $$$.
- Coolant lines are known to leak (this is required to be fixed prior to racing at certain circuits).
- Hydraulic rear spoiler commonly fail and costs $$$ to fix.
- Tire pressure monitors need to be replaced occasionally, since they run on batteries.

3. Misc
- Exhaust sound is muted (pretty sad, really) and require an upgrade or modification.
- I enjoy things like surround view camera, keyless entry and start, Bluetooth (2009 911TT had this, but wasn't great), auto wipers and LED headlights.
- The Porsche is all about driving, the connected steering and prodigious power.

All in all, the 997.1 911TT is an amazing car. I wouldn't mind driving it once in a while on weekends and tracking it with some modifications. However, if it's going to be a DD, I would walk away. The M3 feels very similar to the stock 911TT in terms of power. Of course, a modded 911TT is a different beast.

So I sold my 911TT later that year for what I bought it for (those cars don't really depreciate) and got a F80 M3 with almost all the options. I told my wife that the M3 is so much better than the 911TT for me. For some the 911TT is the perfect daily driver. I'm just giving you another perspective. The M3 is a modern car with all the latest technology, 4 doors, usable space, tons of power, excellent build quality, stealth factor, and I love how it drives. The exhaust note could be better, the throttle response more linear, but I still love the M3 much more.

[ASAP]

I have never had a Porsche but have test driven quite a few... Here is what I always find;

The tech seems to be ungodly bad and outdated in nearly all of them. The interior is insanely dated as well unless you are in a 2012+. The interior is also cramped but it feels more sport carish... that's really it, unfortunately those are far too large compromises for myself to give up an M car. Also, the price on the very good Porsches Gt's and Turbos is imho ludicrous... to the point of not being worth it. Again just my opinion.

[Krajo15]

Everyone -

thanks for responding. I have posted by journey in another post - M3 is a lemon and now dealing with BMW USA on buy back.

Good news, fiance is ok with driving around the new M3 instead of a Evoque for her business (not a bad deal) and allow me to have the Porsche as a fun car. I'm getting the 991.1 for 55k (some go for 75k) and it is fully loaded with brand new tires. I'm thinking if I really can't stand the car after a year, I can probably sell it for the same price and look for another car at that time. This will allow me satisfy my itch for a Porsche while allowing to still use a m3 if needed.

[sshu]

Congrats. What are the specs? Be sure to get a ppi from a reputable mechanic beforehand and run a carfax AND Autocheck. When you look at the cars history, has it been to a dealer a lot for servicing? If it has, it may have some issues which may or not have been corrected. A lot of early 991's had issues so be careful. Does it have any warranty left? If it does you can get an extended warranty for a reasonable price.

[Slow///1]

Congrats on the 991 op. Sounds like a nice choice.
I would like to add that I find the 997.1TT to be crazy laggy compared to my F80. Throttle response is subpar as well. Ignoring the obvious creature comforts, everyone glosses over the fact that the car sounds like a vacuum cleaner and going from stock 997TT to a decent power tune is usually $5-10K depending on clutch status. For those numbers the F80 can make comparable power.

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by Krajo15

Everyone -

thanks for responding. I have posted by journey in another post - M3 is a lemon and now dealing with BMW USA on buy back.

Good news, fiance is ok with driving around the new M3 instead of a Evoque for her business (not a bad deal) and allow me to have the Porsche as a fun car. I'm getting the 991.1 for 55k (some go for 75k) and it is fully loaded with brand new tires. I'm thinking if I really can't stand the car after a year, I can probably sell it for the same price and look for another car at that time. This will allow me satisfy my itch for a Porsche while allowing to still use a m3 if needed.

Wow... how the hell did you pull off getting one for $55k? That's crazy crazy low.

[dmz]

Did you meant a 997 as no 991 has gone that low in the used market.

Congrats anyway! Once you go Porsche you'll never look back...

Originally Posted by Krajo15

Everyone -

thanks for responding. I have posted by journey in another post - M3 is a lemon and now dealing with BMW USA on buy back.

Good news, fiance is ok with driving around the new M3 instead of a Evoque for her business (not a bad deal) and allow me to have the Porsche as a fun car. I'm getting the 991.1 for 55k (some go for 75k) and it is fully loaded with brand new tires. I'm thinking if I really can't stand the car after a year, I can probably sell it for the same price and look for another car at that time. This will allow me satisfy my itch for a Porsche while allowing to still use a m3 if needed.

[adc]

Originally Posted by dmz

Once you go Porsche you'll never look back...

That's just not true. Plenty of people on the forum have not only looked back, but gone back as well.

[hockey21]

Originally Posted by Krajo15

I'm curious on what people have to say on this board. I've owned an E92 and recently a F80 M3 which is about to be deemed lemon under the CA law.

I love BMWs but I have been looking at 997 Turbos lately. Has anyone driven a 997 turbo and what are your thoughts? I know I will lose some things like a back seat in the 997 compared to the f80, warranty will null on the 997, older technology in terms of nav an interior looks, and DCT transmission which I like for the track.

Little about my current F80 which has made me start to think about getting a 997 turbo:

-Current f80 has been at the dealership being serviced for the past 6-7 weeks. They can't figure out why the car is drifting to right. They have swapped out control arms, swivel bearings, shocks/struts, steering pieces, and tires/rims without any success. I love the M division cars but now I have to figure out what to going forward which is why I want to hear from you.

What I want out of a car -

I want a good handling car that can be a daily driver. I would like to track the car 2-3 year. I'm looking for a car that can be tuned to the track an have good reliability too hence the 997 motor.

I know the f80 has potential and I love the new technology but sometimes I wonder if its losing its touch with the road - thinking out loud. The 997 can be tuned to over 800 HP which is not my goal but a car around 600-700 with a great track setup would be ideal. Sharkwerks out here in the bay has done some great things with the 997 - great tuning and suspension work. I have found a 2007 turbo for 60k with 40k miles on it - manual too.

Please chime in and let me know your thoughts. It is hard to test drive a Porsche out here and get a feel for a 997 since everything is 2010 and newer.

Sad to see my F80 be classified as a lemon but also glad I was able to take care of it with low miles on the car.

thanks for you help..

my father has 997 turbo and i drive it all the time... i have f80 m3 on order, have driven but never owned..... the 997 turbo is in a different league. if you can deal with the lack of rear seats... 997 turbo hands down

[sgroer]

Originally Posted by adc

That's just not true. Plenty of people on the forum have not only looked back, but gone back as well.

I did - I had a 991 GT3 and traded for an M4.... and then I bought another GT3 6 weeks later. Now I have the ultimate duo.

But seriously, I also had a 991S and there are many reasons to take the f8x over it.