Right price for a used M4 GTS

[4play]

Originally Posted by 786

Ya, that Fall Line piece seems like a no brainer.

I'm hoping to have a better, more reasonably price lower splitter solution available sometime in the next 4-6 weeks as well.

[786]

You’re making it? What material? Acid orange available?

[4play]

Originally Posted by 786

You’re making it? What material? Acid orange available?

Likely HDPE, not 100% on exact material specs at this point. Goal would be to have a sacrificial part. I'm working to see if I can have a small batch of HDPE made in a custom color (Acid Orange). The manufacturer I've talked to has orange HDPE sheets, but I don't think it would be an exact match.

Either way, it would be way cheaper than $500 for the lower splitter. I'm targeting around half that including shipping.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by 4play

Likely HDPE, not 100% on exact material specs at this point. Goal would be to have a sacrificial part. I'm working to see if I can have a small batch of HDPE made in a custom color (Acid Orange). The manufacturer I've talked to has orange HDPE sheets, but I don't think it would be an exact match.

Either way, it would be way cheaper than $500 for the lower splitter. I'm targeting around half that including shipping.

Holler when you figure something out, if you need to accumulate interest for a batch build. I'd be in for one.

edit: color matching isn't hugely important to me, I just need to stop scuffing the carbon fiber one all over the place. I leave it extended at this point since I leave the car just prepped for the track, and whenever I take the car to fill it with gas before loading on the trailer, 50% of the time I scuff it -_-

[786]

Originally Posted by 4play

Likely HDPE, not 100% on exact material specs at this point. Goal would be to have a sacrificial part. I'm working to see if I can have a small batch of HDPE made in a custom color (Acid Orange). The manufacturer I've talked to has orange HDPE sheets, but I don't think it would be an exact match.

Either way, it would be way cheaper than $500 for the lower splitter. I'm targeting around half that including shipping.

Nice, keep us updated.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Another at Toy Barn for 80 with MCS dampers, some camber f & r, leftover harness eye bolts in the cage. Apparent track car, not that that should disqualify. No longer ready to go as track car though. If you're going that route, might as well get one that's still prepped imo.

I know that car, I've driven it. Pretty sweet deal for 80k.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I know that car, I've driven it. Pretty sweet deal for 80k.

Must have switched back to stock on a handful of components? Brakes & seats?

Yeah, considering the stock component limitations, this is one car where proper track mods wouldn't be seen as a negative by many buyers. HPDE'rs would end up doing them anyways. They're not very "optional."

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Must have switched back to stock on a handful of components? Brakes & seats?

Yeah, considering the stock component limitations, this is one car where proper track mods wouldn't be seen as a negative by many buyers. HPDE'rs would end up doing them anyways. They're not very "optional."

It has been tracked moderately, much less than the mods would indicate. Brakes were just rotor swaps, seats were swapped.

Still has a 3WR MCS suspension and Hotchins sways that are brand new.

[786]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I know that car, I've driven it. Pretty sweet deal for 80k.

I tried buying that car but dealer gave me the run around then ghosted me.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 786

I tried buying that car but dealer gave me the run around then ghosted me.

Oh no!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by 786

I tried buying that car but dealer gave me the run around then ghosted me.

That’s terrible. I can’t stand places like that. They have a serious buyer yet they won’t even communicate with you. Pathetic.

Good luck with your GTS search.

[786]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

That’s terrible. I can’t stand places like that. They have a serious buyer yet they won’t even communicate with you. Pathetic.

Good luck with your GTS search.

Thanks a lot brother, agreed. You would think if someone was in the market to buy an 80k+ car (that isn't the easiest to sell!) they would jump at the chance to at least talk to the person. They weren't the only dealer like that either, I had about 3-4 others not even call me back. Pretty amazing.

But everything happens for a reason, and I'm quite glad I didn't buy that ragged out Toy Barn car. Found another one in way nicer condition and finalized the deal today. Will post a thread once I take delivery.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by 786

Thanks a lot brother, agreed. You would think if someone was in the market to buy an 80k+ car (that isn't the easiest to sell!) they would jump at the chance to at least talk to the person. They weren't the only dealer like that either, I had about 3-4 others not even call me back. Pretty amazing.

But everything happens for a reason, and I'm quite glad I didn't buy that ragged out Toy Barn car. Found another one in way nicer condition and finalized the deal today. Will post a thread once I take delivery.

Congrats!
Looking forward to seeing some pictures. You will absolutely love it!

[786]

Thanks sir, will definitely post pics once it arrives. I have had major car ADD so I hope I love it too!

[h_bakken]

Originally Posted by 786

Thanks sir, will definitely post pics once it arrives. I have had major car ADD so I hope I love it too!

I'm over the moon with mine.

I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

It's a very pure and undiluted driving experience, and the car is the best looking M ever IMO.

Can't stop staring at it.

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by 786

FYI, the one at BMW San Rafael for $77 has been tracked “heavily” and came in on slicks. Sales rep was really honest about the condition. Could be a good one for someone looking to track primarily.

Did you take a look at the wear indicators on the ccb rotors? What did they look like? In one image on the dealers site, it looks like the indicator circle is very dark.

I've been contemplating a little road trip to go take a look at the car but I want to get the basics on it first. Unfortunately, the online sales manager was not willing to go out and take a quick snapshot of the wear indicators or other parts of the car. He wasn't really willing to get out of his chair for me at all. He also wasn't forthright about the car being someone's track day toy.

From what I can tell by the low resolution pics, it might need 4 new ccb rotors ($15k) and a new upper and lower front splitter ($5k). Since the car clearly had a track-off, I (or anyone who sees this and is interested in buying that car) would also want to budget to inspect or replace cracked front suspension parts ($?k) as well as any cooling package and underbody parts directly behind that splitter crack.

If these are selling for $80-85k without any service/maintenance needs right now, a car with these needs is possibly only worth around $70k-ish as-is, right?

SC~
(my first post)

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

Did you take a look at the wear indicators on the ccb rotors? What did they look like? In one image on the dealers site, it looks like the indicator circle is very dark.

I've been contemplating a little road trip to go take a look at the car but I want to get the basics on it first. Unfortunately, the online sales manager was not willing to go out and take a quick snapshot of the wear indicators or other parts of the car. He wasn't really willing to get out of his chair for me at all. He also wasn't forthright about the car being someone's track day toy.

From what I can tell by the low resolution pics, it might need 4 new ccb rotors ($15k) and a new upper and lower front splitter ($5k). Since the car clearly had a track-off, I (or anyone who sees this and is interested in buying that car) would also want to budget to inspect or replace cracked front suspension parts ($?k) as well as any cooling package and underbody parts directly behind that splitter crack.

If these are selling for $80-85k without any service/maintenance needs right now, a car with these needs is possibly only worth around $70k-ish as-is, right?

SC~
(my first post)

Welcome.

Wear indicators begin to pit, not really discolor. They are dark unworn.

I think you've outlined a good negotiating position.

But in reality, if you intend to track the car don't replace the ccb -- you have to jump to another system.

Front end damage and splitter too, though? post pics?

[Gomeler]

Been a while since I've looked at the M4 GTS inventory across the nation. Interesting to see prices trending up a bit.

The ToyBarn car with the MCS coilovers is interesting. I don't know enough to visually differentiate MCS setups based on the remote reservoir, but that's potentially a $6k-$8k setup with camber plates(assuming it has them still installed). Car was obviously someone's track toy. If you're looking for a track car that could be a real strong start. I'd try to get that car for $70k with the expectation that you're chucking $8k at aftermarket brakes OR just swap to some M2C rotors and run the OEM calipers for cheap. There's a chance the CCBs are mint, and the car ran on an aftermarket BBK with the CCBs collecting dust on a shelf.

The San Rafael BMW car missing the front splitter + knowledge of it coming in on slicks, same curiosity re: the CCBs. Secret Chimp you are in the right ballpark for your expectation in regards to the CCBs + splitter assembly. The factory oil cooler resides behind the splitter, if it was damaged the car wasn't driving away. Besides the CCBs, you could always take a peek at the knuckles to see if either of the clamps at the bottom holding the strut cracked. Just like the ToyBarn car, it was clearly tracked by someone who didn't bother to revert it to stock. Lowball, set aside some saved cash to replace missing/broken stuff, and track the hell out of it yourself.


This got long. I wouldn't touch either of those cars if you're searching for a garage queen/street car. Looks like there are a few samples in the $85k-$90k range, just snag one of those, extend the factory warranty, and have peace of mind for a few years. But if you're looking for something that'll see a lot of track mileage per year, a $70k GTS would be a great start.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Welcome.

Wear indicators begin to pit, not really discolor. They are dark unworn.

I think you've outlined a good negotiating position.

But in reality, if you intend to track the car don't replace the ccb -- you have to jump to another system.

Front end damage and splitter too, though? post pics?

Both cars are on CarGurus, they are the two lowest priced GTS' right now. The image quality is garbage, maybe it's a crack in the upper carbon splitter of the car where it's missing the lower splitter.

The San Rafael BMW car has been on the market for 197 days. They might be stubborn thinking they have a treasured car and not willing to budge on price. I called up more than one dealership that thought this when I was shopping for mine last year

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Both cars are on CarGurus, they are the two lowest priced GTS' right now. The image quality is garbage, maybe it's a crack in the upper carbon splitter of the car where it's missing the lower splitter.

The San Rafael BMW car has been on the market for 197 days. They might be stubborn thinking they have a treasured car and not willing to budge on price. I called up more than one dealership that thought this when I was shopping for mine last year

Agreed, but eventually they all seem to find a buyer... Whether the high mileage crash history one in the 60's or the last off the line listed for 300k or whatever it was. Some dealerships just don't seem to care about time in inventory, others obsessed with it. Weird business.

If I were to be a buyer right now, knowing what I know about track mod requirements, i'd probably still grab one of the low mileage stock'ers for 85-90. Just too good a value.

I'd consider modded if it was truly set with mods, no body damage, full mechanical condition, ready to go. And I'd be more comfortable buying that sort of thing private party where the dude has full knowledge and documentation of what's been done, not dealer personnel. No thanks on those slash your wrists conversations.

[4play]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

Did you take a look at the wear indicators on the ccb rotors? What did they look like? In one image on the dealers site, it looks like the indicator circle is very dark.

I've been contemplating a little road trip to go take a look at the car but I want to get the basics on it first. Unfortunately, the online sales manager was not willing to go out and take a quick snapshot of the wear indicators or other parts of the car. He wasn't really willing to get out of his chair for me at all. He also wasn't forthright about the car being someone's track day toy.

From what I can tell by the low resolution pics, it might need 4 new ccb rotors ($15k) and a new upper and lower front splitter ($5k). Since the car clearly had a track-off, I (or anyone who sees this and is interested in buying that car) would also want to budget to inspect or replace cracked front suspension parts ($?k) as well as any cooling package and underbody parts directly behind that splitter crack.

If these are selling for $80-85k without any service/maintenance needs right now, a car with these needs is possibly only worth around $70k-ish as-is, right?

SC~
(my first post)

The wear indicators are always darker than the rotor material - you need to see them up close and weigh them to actually get a sense of wear. I strongly doubt that a car with 3.8k miles, even with a lot of tracking, would have oxidized the rotors to a place that they would need to be replaced already.

How do you know the car had a track off? I run my DD GTS without the lower splitter and my upper splitter is in way worse shape than that car. I have the original lower splitter as well as a spare lower/upper for when I sell the car, but there's no point replacing it when it gets beat up from daily use.

I would guess the owner ran over a speed bump/parking stop and damaged the lower splitter, then just left it off.

Upper splitter is $750 from RW and a lower splitter is about $1k from RKP or IND. Don't know where the $5k comes from.

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Agreed, but eventually they all seem to find a buyer... Whether the high mileage crash history one in the 60's or the last off the line listed for 300k or whatever it was.

I'd consider modded if it was truly set with mods, no body damage, full mechanical condition, ready to go. And I'd be more comfortable buying that sort of thing private party where the dude has full knowledge and documentation of what's been done, not dealer personnel. No thanks on those slash your wrists conversations.

"Crash history" is a little strong. The rear bumper cover was resprayed/replaced. I wouldn't lump someone backing into the car in a parking lot in the same category as an actual accident/high speed crash.

Personally, I didn't see the draw of paying a $20-30k premium for a car with 3-7k miles when I'm going to put 12k+ miles on the car every year. I have full service history, the mod I wanted (camber plates), some useful spares, and a car I'm not afraid to drive. I don't see the point in spending extra for a low mileage example if you're going to daily it/track it.

If it's a 3rd car and just sits in your garage most of the time, I get it. But buying a pristine car to track it doesn't make any sense to me.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 4play

"Crash history" is a little strong. The rear bumper cover was resprayed/replaced. I wouldn't lump someone backing into the car in a parking lot in the same category as an actual accident/high speed crash.

Personally, I didn't see the draw of paying a $20-30k premium for a car with 3-7k miles when I'm going to put 12k+ miles on the car every year. I have full service history, the mod I wanted (camber plates), some useful spares, and a car I'm not afraid to drive. I don't see the point in spending extra for a low mileage example if you're going to daily it/track it.

If it's a 3rd car and just sits in your garage most of the time, I get it. But buying a pristine car to track it doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, I wouldn't put those damage scenarios in the same category either!

Was pointing out that across the entire spectrum of available cars, low and high prices, stories, stubborn sellers, etc. they all eventually seem to find a buyer with their own rationale. Yours makes perfect sense to me.

As far as ccb discs -- experienced concerning wear/pitting after ~250 miles of track driving. Have not bothered to weigh because the writing was on the wall in terms of ongoing use.