2015 M4 vs 2016 Camaro SS

[CirrusSR22]

Automobile Magazine drove it and said there's absolutely no issues with seeing out of it.

"The old car, still very capable, is difficult to drive comfortably at speed due to its size and obscured sightlines. The new Camaro? You just climb in and wail on. You see where you are going, you sense where the tires are, and you direct immediate responses through the sharp electric power steering. The 2016 model also feels much better balanced.

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...#ixzz3aNKAzqNS "

As did Motor Trend:

"One of my favorite improvements is the lowered point where the windshield meets the dash. This gives you significantly better visibility than in the current Camaro. That has always been a major Camaro weakness, and Chevrolet fixed it."

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...ro_first_look/

[evanescent03]

it stil looks like the windows are tiny and the sheet metal surrounding then goes on for dayyyys. I was excited to see it but this is not attractive. performance wise it has my attention and maybe I'll go drive one but I can't ignore looks. I just can't. very disappointing.

I'm glad it has improved outward visibility but still can't be great.

[AIRPOWER]

IMO, this is like a apples to oranges comparison. One is American brute force muscle car the other is a refined European sports car. Besides that, the visibility outside the Camaro due to the short/angled windows blows. I don't care what automobile magazine says, I have driven a 2013 and it blows, the Chrysler 300 has the same problem.

[Blindside_137]

Finally. A historic muscle car that doesnt have an ancient styled interior.

I like it. But I'll never have a camaro. If I get a Chevy it would be a z06

[Revcrazy]

I always find the dichotomy of this funny. People here get so excited when the m3/4 can get 90% of the straight line performance of a 10-15 year old supercar for 1/3 to 1/2 the price yet isn't nearly as good a car in any other measure and isn't nearly as refined.
Then ford and Chevy come out with mustangs and Camaros that can beat the m3/4 for 1/3 to 1/2 the price and they can't deal.
I for one wouldn't want one of these but the fact that this car is going beat the m3/4 on and off the track is something you can't ignore.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

I always find the dichotomy of this funny. People here get so excited when the m3/4 can get 90% of the straight line performance of a 10-15 year old supercar for 1/3 to 1/2 the price yet isn't nearly as good a car in any other measure and isn't nearly as refined.
Then ford and Chevy come out with mustangs and Camaros that can beat the m3/4 for 1/3 to 1/2 the price and they can't deal.
I for one wouldn't want one of these but the fact that this car is going beat the m3/4 on and off the track is something you can't ignore.

Like the Z28 beating a 911S and being similar to a GT3 on and off the track for a FRACTION of the price? Wait... and a lowly M4 beating a base 911 in performance for less money too!!! The horror!!

Yep... that can't be ignored

Pot meet kettle... kettle meet pot

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by gthal

Like the Z28 beating a 911S and being similar to a GT3 on and off the track for a FRACTION of the price? Wait... and a lowly M4 beating a base 911 in performance for less money too!!! The horror!!

Yep... that can't be ignored

Pot meet kettle... kettle meet pot

And yet again you still ignore that for 40k Chevy has a car that slaughters every m car ever made. Even the m3 GTS at almost 4x the price can't touch a z28. Lmfao
Seems all you care about is straight line speed. An m3/4 only makes 120 more whp than a base 911 yet loses in all other feel and handling. Which car is significantly faster as anglesey in the head to head? Remind me of that?

And what do you consider close? 12 second difference in the Ring? LOL
And a significant difference on all other tracks. You must not be too familiar with what equates to close on track.

Here's the times. None qualify for close based on the laps times.

Lap Times (4)

Track 911 GT3 Camaro Z/28
Nordschleife 7:25.00 7:37.47
Hockenheim Short 1:09.60 1:10.80
Willow Springs 1:27.22 1:29.72
Sachsenring 1:32.97 1:35.20

Not to mention the z28 comes with a stickier tire stock. Even out the tires and those gaps only become larger.

[AlterZgo]

I'm sure the performance is good. But my problem with the Camaro and other American cars is the size. American coupes feel like they're 5 series sized on the outside with 2 series interior space. That, and the overall quality and feel of the interior materials is lacking.

Getting a little OT here but American cars, in general, just aren't that much of a value either. The latest R&T tests 4 cylinder Mustang against a 228i and FRS. That Mustang was close to $40k and almost $2k more than the BMW. A $38.5k mustang with no V8? Hell no.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Automobile Magazine drove it and said there's absolutely no issues with seeing out of it.

"The old car, still very capable, is difficult to drive comfortably at speed due to its size and obscured sightlines. The new Camaro? You just climb in and wail on. You see where you are going, you sense where the tires are, and you direct immediate responses through the sharp electric power steering. The 2016 model also feels much better balanced.

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...#ixzz3aNKAzqNS "

As did Motor Trend:

"One of my favorite improvements is the lowered point where the windshield meets the dash. This gives you significantly better visibility than in the current Camaro. That has always been a major Camaro weakness, and Chevrolet fixed it."

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...ro_first_look/

Ok that's out the front. Did they mention out the side and back? I know seeing isn't always believing, but those site lines look very close to worse than the last generation.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

I always find the dichotomy of this funny. People here get so excited when the m3/4 can get 90% of the straight line performance of a 10-15 year old supercar for 1/3 to 1/2 the price yet isn't nearly as good a car in any other measure and isn't nearly as refined.
Then ford and Chevy come out with mustangs and Camaros that can beat the m3/4 for 1/3 to 1/2 the price and they can't deal.
I for one wouldn't want one of these but the fact that this car is going beat the m3/4 on and off the track is something you can't ignore.

Just stop, you rants are not only off base and wrong most of the time, but it has gotten really annoying that you are hijacking every thread. You are starting to make me despise Porsche and buy into the stereotype about their owners. BMW and MB crowd are bad enough. Porshafiles take it to another level.

Why didn't you buy one of these types of cars instead of an F8X if it is such an amazing performance bargain?

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by minn19

Just stop, you rants are not only off base and wrong most of the time, but it has gotten really annoying that you are hijacking every thread. You are starting to make me despise Porsche and buy into the stereotype about their owners. BMW and MB crowd are bad enough. Porshafiles take it to another level.

Why didn't you buy one of these types of cars instead of an F8X if it is such an amazing performance bargain?

Nothing is off base or wrong. Kthxbye

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

Nothing is off base or wrong. Kthxbye

No nothing at all.

Why won't you answer a direct question? Why didn't you buy one of these types of cars instead of an F8X if they slaughter them as you say?

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by minn19

No nothing at all.

Why won't you answer a direct question? Why didn't you buy one of these types of cars instead of an F8X if they slaughter them as you say?

Because I need a back seat that fits a car seat for my little girl and the current car seat she has won't fit in the back of a 911. Maybe you can't understand that.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

And yet again you still ignore that for 40k Chevy has a car that slaughters every m car ever made.

And yet again you make things up... I have not ignored the performance of the Camaro vs. the M. I don't recall even commenting on it at all. I am very familiar with the Z28's track prowess and am one of the first people to acknowledge it... and the new Mustang, the C7, etc. As a matter of fact, I believe that in terms of "balanced" perspectives, yours would be the least balanced I have ever experienced on a car forum

Like I said... pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot

BTW... I'm the LAST person that cares about straight line speed. I'm only and all about the track. I don't think I've ever raced anyone on the street that I can recall.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

Because I need a back seat that fits a car seat for my little girl and the current car seat she has won't fit in the back of a 911. Maybe you can't understand that.

Maybe you can't read as I've talked about having to do the same thing many times. Why didn't you buy a Panamera than? Maybe because for the price the M3/4 and C63 etc have the performance and practicality that other cars don't.

Why not man up a put the car seat in a coupe. You could slaughter everybody in a Mustang or Camaro to and from daycare. Wouldn't that awesome. Lups does, although to be fair her kids are not in car seats.

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by minn19

Maybe you can't read as I've talked about having to do the same thing many times. Why didn't you buy a Panamera than? Maybe because for the price the M3/4 and C63 etc have the performance and practicality that other cars don't.

Why not man up a put the car seat in a coupe. You could slaughter everybody in a Mustang or Camaro to and from daycare. Wouldn't that awesome. Lups does, although to be fair her kids are not in car seats.

Honestly don't think until this thread I've ever seen a post of yours or at least can't remember one...certainly have never heard you write about having kids at a bare minimum.
I used to have an m3 comp coupe and it was a pain getting her in and out.
I actually looked at panameras but I am not yet ready for a car that size and wanted a manual transmission again so that left my choices rather limited.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

Honestly don't think until this thread I've ever seen a post of yours or at least can't remember one...certainly have never herd you write about having kids at a bare minimum.
I used to have an m3 comp coupe and it was a pain getting her in and out.
I actually looked at panameras but I am not yet ready for a car that size and wanted a manual transmission again so that left my choices rather limited.

Hey so there is a place for cars like these. Who would of thunk it.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by gthal

BTW... I'm the LAST person that cares about straight line speed. I'm only and all about the track. I don't think I've ever raced anyone on the street that I can recall.

Nah..A smart ass plus up next to you at a traffic light on a less than busy road, into a 60 mph stretch. I beg to differ my friend, 99.9% of us bury the speedo, the other .1% are thinking about the track. Hello Mr. Unicorn!

[Sassicaia]

Looks like someone punched it in the face. Also still has the typical north american clunky dash.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Nah..A smart ass plus up next to you at a traffic light on a less than busy road, into a 60 mph stretch. I beg to differ my friend, 99.9% of us bury the speedo, the other .1% are thinking about the track. Hello Mr. Unicorn!

I didn't say others don't care about it... I said that I don't really care (other than for interest sake)

I really can't remember the last time I've raced anyone... maybe in my 20's. That doesn't mean I haven't buried the speedo but not in a race. I always turn the other cheek cause I know I can take them if I really wanted to and there is satisfaction in not needing to bother.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Looks like someone punched it in the face. Also still has the typical north american clunky dash.

Sadly, Reminds of a Transformer, ready to become a toaster. This coming from a guy that owned an early 70s LT1 Z28, now that had some nice rounded lines and fender flares that looked right.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Looks like someone punched it in the face. Also still has the typical north american clunky dash.

Just noticed your forum name... had a 1989 bottle from the cellar last night. Quite enjoyable although it might have been even better a couple of years ago

Wow... that was off topic OP Sorry.