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      02-23-2017, 01:13 PM   #23
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As I know DCT not working with X-Drive
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      02-23-2017, 01:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
Correct but the delay when shifting compared to the m3 seem long and if you look at rpm vs shift you will bounce off the rev limiter. In the m3 its instance. ZF is really good but no DCT
I had the ZF in my old 09 ISF and DCT in my e92. Ill say upshirts were hardly slower but as you said a little bit. Downshifts are where the DCT destroyed it.
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      02-23-2017, 01:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
Correct but the delay when shifting compared to the m3 seem long and if you look at rpm vs shift you will bounce off the rev limiter. In the m3 its instance. ZF is really good but no DCT
I had the ZF in my old 09 ISF and DCT in my e92. Ill say upshirts were hardly slower but as you said a little bit. Downshifts are where the DCT destroyed it.
It's noticeable and very evident to me but I have both, if you drove the X5M and never used a PDk or DCT you would think the ZF is great, it also does not slam you into your seat like the DCT does
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      02-23-2017, 01:55 PM   #26
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Ive heard many rumors the new M5 will have the ZF too. Should know soon I guess.
that would suck.

wtf.
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      02-23-2017, 01:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
It's noticeable and very evident to me but I have both, if you drove the X5M and never used a PDk or DCT you would think the ZF is great, it also does not slam you into your seat like the DCT does
GREAT point.

People love the zf, but that's usually because they have never driven a PDK or DCT.

It is a wonderful automatic, but does not replicate the manual shift experience like a true dual clutch.
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      02-23-2017, 02:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyWitness View Post
As I know DCT not working with X-Drive
from what i read it is because current dct's cannot handle the weight of the vehicle PLUS the towing capacity.

for example, the porsche cayenne has an aisin supplied tiptronic auto, and not a PDK, the Macan which is lighter and tows less has a PDK.
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Last edited by dkhm3; 02-23-2017 at 04:55 PM..
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      02-23-2017, 02:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
GREAT point.

People love the zf, but that's usually because they have never driven a PDK or DCT.

It is a wonderful automatic, but does not replicate the manual shift experience like a true dual clutch.
But I owned a DCT and ZF so how does this apply to my comments?

Anyway the M5 rumor to me was explained that the DCT wasnt smooth enough for the general M5 buyer. But maybe its just too heavy or awd or just bs. I guess well see haha
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      02-23-2017, 04:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
But I owned a DCT and ZF so how does this apply to my comments?

Anyway the M5 rumor to me was explained that the DCT wasnt smooth enough for the general M5 buyer. But maybe its just too heavy or awd or just bs. I guess well see haha
It doesn't apply to you, sorry I was making a general statement.

Nonetheless, the difference is pretty obvious if you drive them both on a day to day basis.

I am pretty satisfied with the shift speeds on the zf on the x5m which is tuned to be brutal and fast, but it is still no comparison with the thrill of driving a dct, or better yet a manual.

if you're right on the m5 that would be a sad shame, it was one of the only luxury sports sedan in its category to have a dct. Doesn't make sense because the new Panamera is heavy, awd (on certain versions) and uses PDK.
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      02-23-2017, 05:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
It doesn't apply to you, sorry I was making a general statement.

Nonetheless, the difference is pretty obvious if you drive them both on a day to day basis.

I am pretty satisfied with the shift speeds on the zf on the x5m which is tuned to be brutal and fast, but it is still no comparison with the thrill of driving a dct, or better yet a manual.

if you're right on the m5 that would be a sad shame, it was one of the only luxury sports sedan in its category to have a dct. Doesn't make sense because the new Panamera is heavy, awd (on certain versions) and uses PDK.
In my experience the PDK is just a little bit better than the DCT in every aspect. I agree though I think it would be a shame and definitely would lower the sales volume. With that said I dont think F10 sales volume has been great either. Those things sit on lots and sell for 20k under sticker.
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      02-23-2017, 05:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
In my experience the PDK is just a little bit better than the DCT in every aspect. I agree though I think it would be a shame and definitely would lower the sales volume. With that said I dont think F10 sales volume has been great either. Those things sit on lots and sell for 20k under sticker.
I agree, but my seat time was based on a Macan GTS, and a test drive. PDK is better.
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      02-23-2017, 07:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamousdiz View Post
Wrong, it has the ZF 8 speed, from what I hear the DCT can't Handle the weight,
Weight, you mean the torque? I don't quite understand what mass has to do with a transmission.

Last edited by Ian1973; 02-23-2017 at 07:36 PM..
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      02-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
Weight, you mean the torque? I don't quite understand what mass has to do with a transmission.
weight of the car plus the maximum towing capacity stresses the clutch packs of a dct, i.e. over a mountain pass, etc.

example cayenne - 5,100 lbs. (est) tows 7,000 lbs.

that's a lot of weight to lug around.
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      03-10-2017, 06:11 PM   #35
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According to story on front page new M5 is ZF8. Called it.
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      03-10-2017, 06:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
According to story on front page new M5 is ZF8. Called it.
you did. and it sucks.
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      03-10-2017, 06:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
I agree, but my seat time was based on a Macan GTS, and a test drive. PDK is better.
PDK is better. Although the Macan's PDK is Porsche's version of the Audi DSG. (Trying to find articles about this but being driven in circles. I am personally assuming Porsche completely reworked it). The Macan PDK drives/feels like an automatic, it actually rolls forward from a complete stop. The only hint I know about it is a DCT happens to be when you put the Macan in S/S+ it jerks a little like most DCTs would do if you don't drive/gas properly. We all know the M-DCT drives, feels and behaves like a manual.

From what I know the Porsche 911 PDK is different. I don't know by how much though so.

Edit: I saw the story about M5 potentially with the ZF8. I don't know how I feel about it. If the M5 is really too much for the M-DCT to handle... Not sure if it is a good thing. Maybe BMW should have completely re-worked the M-DCT or x-Drive some how to make it fit.
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