2016 F80 base audio upgrade, the start

[NealfromNZ]

I swore after doing my e46 that I’d never do another speaker wire replacement again ! Such a PITA but was running 110 rms into components and had only 2 connections in path.

But then I still like the challenge.

The current mid bass wiring has 5 sets of connectors inline on 18 gauge between amp and speaker. Too many connections for my liking.

Also thinking the diameter difference between 18 & 16 isn’t a great deal but might be famous last words with a full swearing jar post install.

With the underseat woofers I did see 2.5mm / 14 gauge in the BMW wiring diagrams.
Gives plenty of head room if I end up with high powered 2 ohm woofers. The amp I’m thinking of running does 250 rms at 2 ohms. Ideal if I run morel 2 ohm versions what will take 500 watts sort term. An easy load for that gauage to handle with minimal loss or heat.

Realistically though more likely to run under floor woofers in a mid bass mode ( 80 ish to 150/200hz) so wiring in smaller gauage wouldn’t be an issue.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...1&d=1528957435

For the mid basses whilst 18 gauge is fine for the Focal door components at 60 rms / 130 peak at 4 ohms it I just want to have it wired to handle more power should I do a second round of speakers and amps at a later date. There are a few drivers in 4 inch that take 100 wrms / 300 peak so if I change at a later date I’ve got it covered especially if a 3 or 2 ohm driver comes on the market.

Last speaker is my SPG555 which is an old sledgehammer of a subwoofer that can take 1000rms and presents a 2 ohm load. Wiring calculator suggests 10 gauge at that power level. Amp plans at this stage is 400 rms on sub , but will see how it performs. It did like power before as quite inefficient.

Although you could be right and I end up with 18 gauge running rear doors. We’ll see if 16 can crimped into door connector pins / bushings 😀.

[jmciver]

Haha, I understand the desire for a “challenge” when it comes DIY projects, as that is part of the fun… But there is always a point of diminishing returns, which for me has moved over the years when it comes to my DIY projects .

But regarding your project, I recommend you buy a cheap, used door harness off eBay to test the wiring connections at the door. I am not sure 16 gauge will fit well into those plugs based on my recent experience - even if you cut down on some of the copper material to help it fit. The same issue will apply to the interior door plugs as well. But by testing first, you may save some install pain down the road. And you will get an OEM speaker wire set that can be used for wiring the one new tweeter in the front doors.

Lastly, even though your F80 did not come with the all around cameras, so you have a hole that could be drilled to pass new wiring into the doors, I would still recommend using the OEM plug to get to the tweeter and midranges inside the doors. Running wires through the “hole” will make disconnecting the door plug in the future more of a PITA due to the wires running through it….

[NealfromNZ]

I like your door harness approach and the way you’ve used factory harnesses and plugs. Unfortunately buying second hand harnesses doesn’t come up much locally and since Covid-19 airfreight from USA / Uk has gone up considerably. So a $20 door harness is roughly another $100 landed.

Got quite used to doing harnesses on last build where the e46 m3. Had 5 modules that I redid as I converted the infotainment system from Japan spec to euro. Lots of TE / amp pin terminations , 5 Modules

F80 is relativity straight project

Some wiring pics from the e46 build,

[jmciver]

Yeah, too bad about the international shipping thing adding a lot of additional cost. But here is a tip that may help you. I ordered a few sets of the following for cheap off eBay (you can also get them from Aliexpress)…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14450426733...mis&media=COPY

I used these to plug my new midranges into the factory midrange plug. Also, the male pins used in these harnesses are the same male pins that you insert into the door plug inside the car. Much cheaper than buying the BMW pins separately and
they are already crimped to the wire.

For the tweeters, since I needed both a male and female plug, I used these off eBay. Again, much cheaper and more convenient than trying to buy the pins and plugs separately…

.https://www.ebay.com/itm/31221082430...mis&media=COPY

[NealfromNZ]

Ordered the following for running active in speakers in front doors. Parts via Schmiedmann.com. Looks like 30 days back order so no doubt 40 -60 days to arrive down under.

I'm doubling on all speaker wire runs to doors and running active front door tweeters. I'm doubling up rather than using aspects of the ASD four wire pair harness. Will take two sets of connectors out of the path between amp and speakers.


Doors for door connector pins and sockets. The 0.75mm2 wire versions

Socket terminal 0,50MM2 - 0,75MM²
61131393724


Socket terminal MQS 0,5-0,75MM² ( note this is a pin so suspect some parts places run the wrong description against the part number
)
61131393723

Spare door card clips as bound to break a few. Note this is the version with the rubber seal which is imported to keep water out epically lower ones in door

Clamp for doorside colour -nature-

51418224768

HIFI / Harmon Kardon rear tweeter mount brackets

ADAPTER, TWEETER, REAR LEFT
51427316863

ADAPTER, TWEETER, REAR RIGHT
51427316864

And six axial clips to hold brackets

Securing clip axial
52207115704

[NealfromNZ]

First part of the orders arrived ( no speakers yet )

jmciver

Your right about using 18 gauge wire for midbass and tweeters. There is no way that I could crimp a larger gauge on to BMW door connectors.

Have ordered high temp .75mm ( 18 awg )wire for components and 2.5mm ( 13 awg ) wire for underset woofers as per BMW factory size.

Will make up new looms running 2 pairs of speaker wires to each door and 1 pair to each underseat woofer.

[jmciver]

Glad things are starting to come together…. Although, after finally starting to tune my system, I can definitly confirm there are no “audible” issues with the factory wiring supplying my new mid ranges and the new 18 gauge wiring I ran to supply the new teeeters. I am not done tuning yet, but my system is VERY loud and clear (almost too loud, if there is such a thing ), more so than the BimmerTech Alpha Ones I took out in the front doors .

Also, you can’t find local materials at reasonable prices? Those shipping times from China are terrible, and you are on the same side of the globe as China (or at least MUCH closer than the US).

[NealfromNZ]

Thanks and encouraging to hear your progress. Guessing your speakers will be getting to the “run in stage’ for your next stage of tuning. Sounding like your speakers are very efficient going by the volume comments. I’m guessing with the rs100 have a high Xmax for the size you’ll be able to run a reasonably lower crossover point if you want to.

Those times from aliexpress do look bad, but the last three orders have been just over a week so hopefully that continues. But it has very low shipping costs .

[NealfromNZ]

I’ve ordered a Mobridge Most25 8.1.1 amplifier/ DSP. I’ve chosen this amplifier for the following reasons

Its a native MOST BMW digital audio device so appears as a HK amplifier would

All sinks from the BMW systems are supported so PDC retains left/ right / front / rear sounds, Telephone calls and Nav to front speakers etc

Natively supports multi channel sound rather than having to down mix to stereo and toslink with other solutions.

Audio is completely digital from idrive to DSP , so no loss or unnecessary resampling. Also no system noise by using analogue connection from idrive to dsp and then amplifier.

Eg Digital from idrive , Most Digital into DSP , Analogue to amp

Verse Digital from Idrive, analogue stage to DSP , DSP resample and audio correction . DSP. Analogue.

The other great feature is that it’s a one box solution that is very power efficient so easier on alternator/ lithium battery combo in the M3

Only real limitation is Active Sound isn’t supported as active sound is an analogue signal from the ASD module. Kinda a plus for me as I’m not a fan of synthetic engine effects.


Main features

10 channel DSP, 9 channels of amplification and over 1150W RMS/2300W Peak total output

Peak channel ratings into 4 ohm.
And whilst it has a trunk sub channel it also has an rca out for an additional subwoofer amp if more power is desired.

6x 150W Channels @ 4ohms
2x 300W Channels @ 4ohms
1x 500W Subwoofer Channel @ 4ohms (or 800W @ 2 Ohms)
1x 4V RMS RCA pre-out
<0.001%THD
105db SNR


https://mobridge.us/product/mobridge-most25-amp/

[sufyaankapde]

Would a 8 channel amp be fine to use with a full Harman set on the doors and floor subs. No dash speakers.

[NealfromNZ]

For HK speakers in that mode you just need 6 channels

Two for front door speakers
Two for underset woofers
Two for front doors speakers

I you were to run 8 channels then run additional speaker wires to front doors and run the tweeters active

[NealfromNZ]

The Mobridge 8.1.1 amp / dsp amp arrived this week, Had a couple of patch harness options that can be used in a BMW build.
Quite impressed with the tech used.
This one has arrived with the HK 20 pin style female connector.

Very small footprint for a amplifier that has 1.1 kw on tap. Around 90% power efficient class D amp stages with 8 channels for the speakers in the cabin and an additional channel for my trunk sub. Also has one rca out which could be used for sub amp if more power is desired. Thinking 400 rms into 2 ohm Boston SPG555 will be more than adequate.

Mindful also that the F80 Lion battery charges faster , but has less capacity at 69 amp hours than the 90amp hour battery in the Fxx series. Didn’t want to stack the system up with a multi class a/b amps and 2.5 times more current draw hence one of the reasons for selecting Mobridge.


As I’ve mentioned earlier, the approach with my base audio f80 is to build a new speaker loom to speakers in the doors and I’ll run two pairs to each door connector. Grabbed a new HK TE style 20 pin connector from aliexpress so will terminate the speaker loom onto that connector. Brought a terminal crimp tool as the number of terminations justifies purchase.
0.75 mm wire for door speakers , 2.5mm for underseat woofers and sub

Just a few more items to get such as a MOST fibre cable from Idrive to trunk, speakers adaptors and a bit of door sound deadening.

Focal speakers ordered in early Feb arrive next week.

[NealfromNZ]

Just the basics today. Working out AMP orientation to suit my install.

Base audio still has a factory amp bracket in the trunk and the F80 uses the ASD module as the factory amp. Plenty of room for the Mobridge. Reused one factory hole , drilled two more and popped in some M5 rivnuts.

Factory amp bracket is good in that it allows passive airflow under the amp with a reasonable surface area exposed underneath. The area around the amplifier gets airflow when car ventilation system is in operation and exists the rear vents.

Not expecting the amp to get hot as my experience with previous high powered class d style amps is they only get warm when compared with A/B amps.

[NealfromNZ]

Spent a couple of hours measuring out speaker cable lengths and twisting the silver tinned copper wire via electric drill and vice. Just a note, tinned wire isn’t a crimp pin friendly as normal AVSS copper wire. I may end up crimping with a small blob of solder on each crimp just to make sure it doesn’t come loose on the terminal.

Ordered a optic cable from aliexpress to run between idrive and amp. Could only find a 4 meter version with right combination of connectors for idrive and Mobridge. If it’s too short routed via front firewall and down left side the Mobridge comes with a 1 meter patch cable which should be plenty.

[NealfromNZ]

Just a note on the optical extension cable . It looks like the 5 meter ones on aliexpress would have worked as at the amp end has a connector within the shell. It’s not obvious on the photos for products.

This is the 4 meter version , I think it will be needed to be run down centre console to the rear of the car to reach. Will find out soon ��

Update. I used a 5 meter cable instead. 5 meters is just long enough when Routing via front firewall and down side of car.

[NealfromNZ]

The focal es100k finally arrived 3 months after being ordered. Change of NZ distributor so they ordered a few container loads of focal products. Quite price competitive though compared to some parts of the globe. Looking like well engineered speakers.

Extra hardware is required to mount these in a BMW F3x / F8x . When using Harman Kardon mounts the tweeters will need an adaptor ring. Hot glue could be used to an extent.

But for a better fit Steve had developed some rings for his e90 install and sells these on eBay. He was kind enough to sell me four which is a marginal sale for him. Really appreciated. He normally sells a combo of tweeter rings and midbass for a door card type install that would suite may BMWs. Look like a well thought out product set.

For the mid bass adaptors streetwise3d have developed focal 3D printers set for the f30 / f80 install. They have changed their website for international shipping.

Have ordered 4 tweeter rings and 4 midbass adapters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17371492662...mis&media=COPY

https://streetwise3d.com/products/bm...-adaptors-pair

[NealfromNZ]

Spent some of the weekend running new speaker cables , 4 wires to each door connector ( mid bass and tweeter ) and ran a 5 metre Most cable from Idrive area to trunk ( just long enough ! ) . About 100 meters of speaker cable all up. Not using factory speaker cable so car can easily be reversed to stock at a later date.

Front door connectors took a bit of time.
BMW has the FEM module on one side and two modules on the other which are mounted in front. Fem was easy enough, one screw removed , other side had DAB module I think which took time to remove and install carefully.

Used 4 spare positions next to the speaker section of the door connectors.

When the idrive was pulled out I wasn’t expecting a Most connector due to base audio but it had one none the less. Looks like it connects to the cluster. Will need to order a Most Y cable connect the Mobridge Amplifier and create a Most ring.

Next stage is sort speaker wiring in trunk area to rear door crossovers and terminate rest into Mobridge connector rather than use the patch cable to BMW Hk style connector.

.

[NealfromNZ]

Bit more work on the trunk wiring .

Front door speakers will run active setup so tweeter and door midbass have individual wiring and dedicated amp channels. DSP / time alignment will allow for fine tuning of front sound stage.

I’ve run two pairs of cables to rear doors as well. Rear speaker components will run passive setup so require a crossover. Rather than mount the crossovers in the door I’ve opted for the trunk. Have mounted crossovers in doors before , but find hot glue / 3m mounting comes off after a few years when mounted at the out part of the door card.

Have also changed the orientation of the Mobridge amp. Gives more room for speaker loom and allows for a very short earth lead.



.

[jmciver]

Nice progress….!! Makes the install in my F80 look like child’s play …. Does not seem like much longer before you can start pumping some sound through the system.

Although, a word of advice…. Once everything is ready for initial sound tests of the speskers, etc, don’t put music through it, use pink noise. This more for psychological reasons as if you play music through a “raw” install, it will sound like complete crap, making all that work you did feel like a disappointment. Even though in the back of your mind you know after a just a decent tune, it will still sound better than stock. Weird, I know, but…

[NealfromNZ]

Thanks for the comments and think your right about Tuning first and music later. I also haven’t run in the component speakers on the bench yet. The shop I ordered the focals via was saying retune at roughly 20 hours and then again in a years time as the speakers free up and improve. ( mainly tweeters ) .

Haven’t sorted a tuning mic yet so should probably get on to ordering one soon. Shop I used to borrow one from went under. Thinking of a MiniDSP USB unit.

Think I’m a few weeks away from tuning as some BMW parts are a few weeks away which will allow me to finish the Most digital feed for the amp.

[NealfromNZ]

I alluded to an extra Most part. It’s just a factory Most connector bracket that attaches to the hvac airbox. There is one for the cluster on one side and a second mount point that’s free on the other.

It’s not really needed but I’ll mount one of the Y cable connectors onto it so less chances of rattling behind the idrive unit.


https://parts.bmwsydney.com.au/p/BMW...136918703.html

1x Cable holder f. fiber-optic cable strip
61136918703


Sorry for the quality of the picture but have circled where existing bracket is and where a second one can be mounted.

Second picture shows the connector style that clips onto the bracket..

[NealfromNZ]

Back was a bit sore ( one of those “ You know you’re old when “ threads &#128512 so worked on mounting the tweeters which is a more of an upright activity.

Earlier I posted that I’d purchased Harman Kardon front tweeter door trims and rear door card tweeter mounts. The focal es100k tweeters come with some grills, mounts and a 44mm collar for different styles of mounting.

Of course none of these fit into the BMW HK mounting points. The tweeter by itself is too loose and risks being damaged by the edge of the BMW bracket. And the tweeter collar option is about 1mm to wide and around 2mm too high to clip in when checked with rear brackets. The front door surround bracket clips are a bit higher which I found out later on.

I’d brought some 3D printed e90 focal es100k collars. They were perfect in circumference but a bit high to mount into the rear tweeter brackets. These collars just require a drop of glue onto the tweeter but do need further mods to fit F30.

I got the trusty dremel out and used a grinding bit , I carefully ground about 1 mm of the circumference of one Focal collar to match the 3D printed ones and then trial fitted into the HK bracket. Not quite a fit. I then took the dremel to the HK bracket and removed 3 high points on the mounting area.

I then took roughly 2mm of the focal collar at the bracket clip points. Tried fitting and needed to make a couple more adjustment.
Collar clipped into bracket ( nice firm mount ! ) . I was then able to press tweeter into collar. I repeated the same for the remaining focal collars.

The front door tweeeter mounts I found were slightly different in clip depth. The 3D printed collars would have fitted with minor adjustments with a dermel . The HK has 3 high points and a notch that needed to be removed so the round collars will mount cleanly.

Decided to use the modded focal collars only because they are a press fit for the tweeter. So clipped in the collars and press fitted the tweeters. Unlikely the e90 there is enough deapth for the focal collars and tweeter to sit properly with the backing added.