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View Poll Results: S65 option or S55 standart ? | |||
YES ... I would choose the S65 if an option at this price would be availiable | 93 | 45.81% | |
NO ... I would choose the standart S55 engine | 110 | 54.19% | |
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll |
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12-16-2013, 06:49 PM | #67 | |
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No one is disagreeing that the S55 is partly a result of saving cost. As for the engine being "cheaper", that's been debated in another thread and when you throw in all the ancillary costs associated with it, it's probably close in cost to a S65. The fact that you feel it's your "need" to make sure everyone understands that the S55 is result of compromise, is again, showing insecurity on your part. |
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12-16-2013, 06:53 PM | #68 | |
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the problem with me is that i am not a BMW enthusiast i am a car enthusiast. there are a lot of BMW guys around here. who think anything BMW is gold. i got a E92 M3 because the engine was 80% the reason. |
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12-16-2013, 07:20 PM | #69 |
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Yeah, most people here don't feel that way. Pretty much everyone agrees that the F8X is going to be a much better handling M3 then previous generations. Now, the engine, that's all subjective honestly on whether it's "better" based on what people use as factors to base their opinion upon.
Most of what you mentioned would be considered electronic "toys". And BMW wasn't the first or sole manufacturer to release most of those items into their cars. Face it, the F8X is a new chassis that is stiffer, lighter, and has features the E9X doesn't. It is a generational leap forward. All those electronic gadgets you talk about only improve upon a well-designed car. They don't make the car. And the fact that you can't hide your disdain for this car highlights your bias. |
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12-16-2013, 07:46 PM | #71 | |
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As for your references to the F10 M5 reviews, how can you possibly suggest that will have any influence on or reflect in any way on reviews that will be done ~6 months from now? Are you that depressed about the new M3/4?
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12-16-2013, 09:09 PM | #72 | |
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Let's make something very clear: I really like the E9X M3. In fact, I love everything about it short the engine. I have tried to reason it out and basically force myself to buy one, but I just can't get over the relative lack of torque and performance that I'm expecting out of my daily driver. I do think the S65 is cool, but it just doesn't keep me interested in the long run. To me the seat of the pants performance is a let down. Granted, I am used to driving my 700+ hp GT-R, but the 335 with a few mods puts a lot more smiles on my face on the street than the M3 does. The track is a different animal all together, but the 335 and my new M3 are both going to be daily drivers that'll likely never see the track while the GT-R becomes the 1000+ hp race car. Some of you guys may think that having a high revving V8 is like having a "cheap Ferrari" or maybe puts you closer to owning that dream exotic and I'm glad you like that, but if I wanted a Ferrari or Lambo, I'd get one (actually, I'd get a McLaren 12C, and still might). I prefer all out performance (with some respect to the dollar amount) than I do sound, or cache, etc. The S65 sounds glorious, but I find that gets old when it doesn't have the "bite" to back up the bark (relatively speaking.) Top end performance is ok, but the lack of mid and low range power really kind of sours the deal for me on regular roads. M3s feel more "special" as a whole than any 335 due to a lot of changes other than just the engine. The bushings transmit more road feel, etc. The 335 is boring in this regard, but I put up with it because I'm happy with the car otherwise. I have been around, tuned, and raced high end performance cars my whole life. I don't think my 335, or any BMW 6 cylinder is in the same league as the S65 aurally (few engines are, really), but that is of almost no concern for me. I didn't buy my 335 for sound. I bought it for its performance on the street, where it shines. 450+ ft/lbs of torque at the wheels at 3k rpm is quite entertaining. The S55 doesn't sound nearly as nice as the S65 either, but again it is a tradeoff that I have absolutely no problems making for the performance advantages. My whole point when this got started was not to rag on the S65, but to say that the N54 is a very, very overbuilt engine for 300 hp. The rods, wrist pins, and ring lands are designed to take a LOT more power than 300 crank hp. The S55 will almost certainly be built with much, much higher quality, stronger parts than the N54, and should be good to power levels well above the established 700 whp (800+ crank hp) that the stock internals N54 powered vehicles are seeing now. Additionally, we already know what turbos the S55 has and while they aren't as large as say the Rob Beck setup available for the N54, they are substantially larger than the stock N54 turbos which have been pushed to nearly 500 wtq, and 450 whp themselves. Once the S55 mod scene has a little maturity, I think it'll be fairly straight forward to hit well above 500 hp/tq at the wheels on the stock turbos, but we shall see. I'm sure a lot of you prev. gen M3 guys will disagree, and that's fine. I'll get off the S65's back to keep the peace. The F8X generation M3 finally fixed my reservations with the drivetrain that I've had and I'm very, very excited to get my car and see if it actually lives up to my admittedly lofty expectations
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12-17-2013, 02:08 PM | #73 | |
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You're not getting the F80. You need an N/A high-revving V8 in your life - as anyone coming to this forum for F80/82 info has read several dozen times.
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12-17-2013, 02:58 PM | #74 | ||||
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So the 0-150 mph arrived 8.4 seconds sooner with the E9x than the E46 M3, care to make a prediction on the 0-150 decimation that will occur between the E9x and F8x M3's? Another 8sec lopped off perhaps? Or will the 'decimation' you speak of be more modest.....then we can bookmark this decimation prediction. Thanks. Quote:
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12-17-2013, 04:13 PM | #75 |
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12-17-2013, 05:29 PM | #76 |
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12-17-2013, 05:53 PM | #78 |
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12-17-2013, 06:11 PM | #79 | ||
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"performance records the E9X chassis M3 has set, just like the E46 and E36 platforms did as well" In fact referring to the performance records set by; E36, E46 AND E9x!!! No leaving out of the records set by the E9x as far as I can see... |
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12-17-2013, 06:18 PM | #80 | |
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Let's be honest. The S65 was, and is, a great engine. But it's not the KING. Not by a mile... Today, the 458 and 991 GT3 have engines that rev to 9000rpm and have higher specific output. But even the 3 year old F430 engine (in 2007) had a higher redline and higher specific output... |
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12-17-2013, 06:45 PM | #81 | |
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12-18-2013, 12:19 PM | #83 | |
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12-18-2013, 12:58 PM | #84 |
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12-18-2013, 01:13 PM | #85 | |
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12-18-2013, 02:06 PM | #86 | |
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Honda is to me the biggest disappointment in the auto world today. So much experience, so much know-how and so much successful history just wasted year after year on building über boring pedestrian grey non enthusiast cars. Shame on you Honda. Last edited by solstice; 12-18-2013 at 02:12 PM.. |
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12-18-2013, 02:49 PM | #87 |
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+1! They can't even revive the NSX. They've entirely given up on performance, and are instead focused on bland money makers for the masses.
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12-18-2013, 03:03 PM | #88 | |
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When BMW left F1 we got the F-series... It's likely not so much the result of any shared development as an indicator of the managements interests and focus for the brand. Last edited by solstice; 12-18-2013 at 03:08 PM.. |
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