Stock f82 barely faster then 2021 M340i

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

Also:

Why do they both seem to shit on the F8x so much?

[M5D]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

I'm all about ///M dominance but the idea that the E30 M3 was the end-all-be-all compared to the normal 3-Series is not accurate. See below for the "receipts" :

Start at 3:02…

Also:

As you can see in the article below from 1987, they are doing exactly what we do on this forum all the time in comparing M3 vs. Sporty 3-Series vs. 4WD. So this type of comparison was definitely a thing. Check it out for yourself. Fun read actually:

Thank you! But, but, the 325is was butt ugly! They don't, also go for 100k now!

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Why do they both seem to shit on the F8x so much?

Probably because they've never actually driven a well configured F8X, and the kick backs they receive from BMW for promoting their failed abortion are likely quite lucrative.

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by MJ6

Probably because they've never actually driven a well configured F8X, and the kick backs they receive from BMW for promoting their failed abortion are likely quite lucrative.

I made the choice to get an F82 vs an E92 because:
- my understanding is the 6spd on the E92 is shit.
- rod bearing issues

I read a bunch of articles that suggested the problems of the lack luster manual gearbox on the E9x generation were sorted and greatly improved on the F8x generation. However I never test drive the V8 and while I'm sure it's a great engine, I couldn't imagine future values not being hindered by the constant fear of rod bearing issues.

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

I couldn't imagine future values not being hindered by the constant fear of rod bearing issues.

Plenty of workshops around that are well versed in replacing the rod bearings, really just something you can treat as a maintenance item.

But the F82 is, in general, more reliable, so your hesitation isn't totally unwarranted

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

I made the choice to get an F82 vs an E92 because:
- my understanding is the 6spd on the E92 is shit.
- rod bearing issues

I read a bunch of articles that suggested the problems of the lack luster manual gearbox on the E9x generation were sorted and greatly improved on the F8x generation. However I never test drive the V8 and while I'm sure it's a great engine, I couldn't imagine future values not being hindered by the constant fear of rod bearing issues.

If that's what your decision-making process was based on, it is pretty flawed.

Transmission - you made a decision based on an understanding rather than first hand experience? I have owned and driven both, and the 6MTs are comparable in both cars, unless you are looking for auto rev-match downshifting, which the E9x does not have.

Rod Bearings - every generation BMW has some kind of design defect. Did you also consider the spinning crankhub in the F8x?

Having owned and driven both platforms extensively, I would choose a 6MT E92 vs. 6MT F82 any day and twice on Sunday and the two reasons you cited above would not even factor into consideration, because they're really moot if you think about it.

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

You obviously have no clue what a real M car is all about!

^ This!

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by White340XDriveInCt

What always cracks me up about these posts is that (aside from the obvious "your results may vary" of any given situation) "faster" is always being defined in a very specific (to the post) way, or a loosey goosey, not specific enough manner. Meaning, if you are saying a 340 is "faster" in a roll on race from 30-X, do we know what tires each person had, the road conditions and each driver's abilities in those conditions, who got the best jump, any tuning done on either car, how much (extra) weight either car may have had in trunk, etc? Also, if a 340 is "faster" from say, 0-30, but the M3 trounces it 30-100, which one is "faster", and why? Also, assuming both cars have limiters lifted, wouldn't the faster car be the one with higher top speed (vs. "quicker")?

If you've spent any time on a track, you'll see guys in fairly stock Miata's, etc., often eating boosted BMW's, Mustangs, etc. for lunch, because they're better drivers, more comfy pushing their cars to the limits, etc., so in essence, even though their cars have less HP, they are in fact, faster.

If you've got an M3, you know it's fast as F***. Learn to wring out all its capabilities and you'll have no worries about power and speed, IMO

Stock engine 2001 Miata... it took me 2 whole laps to real in a C5 corvette. Sorry for the iPhone video.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

If that's what your decision-making process was based on, it is pretty flawed.

Transmission - you made a decision based on an understanding rather than first hand experience? I have owned and driven both, and the 6MTs are comparable in both cars, unless you are looking for auto rev-match downshifting, which the E9x does not have.

Rod Bearings - every generation BMW has some kind of design defect. Did you also consider the spinning crankhub in the F8x?

Having owned and driven both platforms extensively, I would choose a 6MT E92 vs. 6MT F82 any day and twice on Sunday and the two reasons you cited above would not even factor into consideration, because they're really moot if you think about it.

Exactly. The 6MTs are functionally identical other than rev match.

Rod bearings / throttle actuator stories on the E9X are equalled by spun hub cranks and failed intercoolers on the F8X.
The key difference is the hub crank cannot be DIY'd and is extremely expensive to fix, whereas the rod bearings have been done many times on jackstands.

For the record, right now I have: E90M, E92M, F80M, F82M, F82M

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

Stock engine 2001 Miata... it took me 2 whole laps to real in a C5 corvette. Sorry for the iPhone video.

If you put a LS1 in a Miata it's pretty much game over!

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

If that's what your decision-making process was based on, it is pretty flawed.

Transmission - you made a decision based on an understanding rather than first hand experience? I have owned and driven both, and the 6MTs are comparable in both cars, unless you are looking for auto rev-match downshifting, which the E9x does not have.

Rod Bearings - every generation BMW has some kind of design defect. Did you also consider the spinning crankhub in the F8x?

Having owned and driven both platforms extensively, I would choose a 6MT E92 vs. 6MT F82 any day and twice on Sunday and the two reasons you cited above would not even factor into consideration, because they're really moot if you think about it.

I think you used to or do still have a CS. Until last weekend, the CS to me was a beautifully designed car that had newer tech than an E92, but I longed for a manual E92 with a Harrop supercharger. Then, I took the CS to the tail of the dragon. I have never had as much fun in a car as I did last weekend. Handling is unparalleled. Granted, I can't afford to take the CS to the track, so if I had to pick something to enjoy every day it would be a Harrop manual E92 M, the sounds, torque and engagement of the manual make it the perfect car for me. If I had to put an M to a track, the CS would be my first choice every time.

[White340XDriveInCt]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

Stock engine 2001 Miata... it took me 2 whole laps to real in a C5 corvette. Sorry for the iPhone video.

I've had a decent amount of time on the track, (driving schools, racing schools, BMW events, etc.,), and I feel that my skills are a solid "B" or maybe a B+ on a really good day, but there are PLENTY of folks driving Miatas, Mini's and others that can mop me up like a wad of Brawny paper towels across a drop of spilled Latte

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Why do they both seem to shit on the F8x so much?

Generic talking points. Same way people keep harping on S55 being too wild when that was only the first year or so of production which was fixed by firmware, not just ZCP like the journalists like to talk about.

I actually foresee F8X becoming a sought after track platform as values go down over time. It checks all the boxes: 1. Attainability, 2. Capability, 3. Upside potential, 4. Ease of maintenance. I can’t stress 4 enough because it’s honestly a dead simple platform to maintain and swap consumables in and out of. As an example, it does not have an e-brake or brake by wire like it’s successor so swapping pads and running fluid is quick and simple (relatively speaking). The way everything in the engine bay is laid out is also very thoughtful… again trivial but a convenient example is the engine is designed with the filter front and center - a trait of BMWs for ages, makes oil changes easy and clean.

Edit: I’ll also add 5. Weight reduction potential. I’ve seen on here guys getting their cars down to 33XX with half a tank by stripping the interior. While that’s not light relative to many cars on track, that’s very light relative to the weight class that F8X is fighting in. Ultimately that’ll be good for power/weight and increasing the life of consumables.

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Generic talking points. Same way people keep harping on S55 being too wild when that was only the first year or so of production which was fixed by firmware, not just ZCP like the journalists like to talk about.

I actually foresee F8X becoming a sought after track platform as values go down over time. It checks all the boxes: 1. Attainability, 2. Capability, 3. Upside potential, 4. Ease of maintenance. I can’t stress 4 enough because it’s honestly a dead simple platform to maintain and swap consumables in and out of. As an example, it does not have an e-brake or brake by wire like it’s successor so swapping pads and running fluid is quick and simple (relatively speaking). The way everything in the engine bay is laid out is also very thoughtful… again trivial but a convenient example is the engine is designed with the filter front and center - a trait of BMWs for ages, makes oil changes easy and clean.

Holly fuck someone with a brain with all valid smart points!



Those are the main reasons why I sold my aging e46 M3 (with problematic SMG) and skipped e92 and g80 and searched high and low for a brand new F82 that was forgotten on a dealership lot earlier this year!

I test drove the crap out of a G80 and just couldn't sleep well at night with how ugly it was and how heavy the car was! Love the S58 but that is about it!

The F80/F82 and even the F87 will oneday be talked about as one of the best M cars to own/track/spirit drive for the average person!

[NYG]

We have to stop over-hyping acceleration and traction. This is how we ended up with the G80.

It doesn't take a lot of effort or engineering to make a car go fast in a straight line. American cars were doing this in the late 60s. Nowadays, unless you're in an SF90 or a 911 Turbo S, you're going to have shitty Teslas walking all over you at every stop light.

Those Model 3 Plaids can beat Formula 1 cars in acceleration. Are you really going to say that the Tesla is faster?

The M340 is not a sports car. The F80 is a sports car, probably the last real one BMW will ever make.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Why do they both seem to shit on the F8x so much?

Honestly, I think a lot of their feelings about the F80/2 were due to growing pains. My impression is that a lot of the journalists were taken aback at the changes for the F8X platform which were quite different at the time for a M3… 1) turbo charged, 2) artificial sound in cabin, 3) new 2-door M4, 4) M3 was a 4-door, 5) F8X was larger - even if lighter than the E9X, and 6) the cars were sharper and more insulated than ever before. Plus electronically assisted steering.

I call all of the above "growing pains" because everything above has now become normal in the sport sedan/GT market. All of the cars in the segment are now just like items above. I saw the journalists go through the the EXACT same thing with the FK2 Civic Type R. The complaints about that car and the F8X was identical. But but but but…. Look at how they responded to the refresh of both platforms where other than the looks of of the cars they were praised. Journalists and the world got used to the FK8 and the G8X very quickly but had issues with the looks.

I saw Mercedes AMG go through this same transition right around the time of the 2008 C63 Black Series. And now, in 2021, AMG can sell any damn near 5000lb turbo charged cars and no one even bats an eye.

Of note, by the time BMW started shoe-horning the S55 in the M2 (a car that is the same or MORE weight than the M4) the scribes had gotten used a heavier, torquey, electronically assisted steering, turbocharged, piped-in artificial sounding, insulated cars with the same freaking exhaust the F80/2 had the entire time!

So all in all, I believe the F8X will be viewed very favorably in time when we look back. And guess what, everyone will tell their fishing stories about the 2015 M3/4 and claim that the massive low range torque delivery is missing from modern cars and how they loved it at the time :

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

If that's what your decision-making process was based on, it is pretty flawed.

Transmission - you made a decision based on an understanding rather than first hand experience? I have owned and driven both, and the 6MTs are comparable in both cars, unless you are looking for auto rev-match downshifting, which the E9x does not have.

Rod Bearings - every generation BMW has some kind of design defect. Did you also consider the spinning crankhub in the F8x?

Having owned and driven both platforms extensively, I would choose a 6MT E92 vs. 6MT F82 any day and twice on Sunday and the two reasons you cited above would not even factor into consideration, because they're really moot if you think about it.

[QUOTE=e90335e36m3;28065538]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

I made the choice to get an F82 vs an E92 because:
- my understanding is the 6spd on the E92 is shit.
- rod bearing issues

I read a bunch of articles that suggested the problems of the lack luster manual gearbox on the E9x generation were sorted and greatly improved on the F8x generation. However I never test drive the V8 and while I'm sure it's a great engine, I couldn't imagine future values not being hindered by the constant fear of rod bearing issues.

I could care less about auto rev matching. I've been heel n toe downshifting since 1999. My car stays in Sport +.

As for the design defect, I got the F82 for heavy track duty. Factoring in a +$3k rod bearing issue is 5% of the value of the car. As for the crank hub on the F82, my research indicated that the only issues exist with modded horse power. In stock form the crank hub is proven reliable.

Additionally, I have not heard of warranties denying claims on crank hubs on stock cars. I have heard of warranties denying claims on rod bearings.

If I'm hesitant to buy an E9x because of known issues, so too will other other buyers have the same apprehension. Especially for a spirited track usage car which all ///M should be.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that's going to hurt the F9x variants till the end of time. Especially as the vehicle value diminishes as the rod bearing repair cost increases.

You're also the first person I've heard say the 6MT is comparable on both cars.
But since I wouldn't be able to test drive them back to back on the track, I listened to a number of reviews that said what I have described. F82 better manual transmission than E90.
For the purposes of this conversation, Are your cars even manual??

As a E90 owner you might think my arguments are flawed because they disrupt your narrative. But that doesn't make it so.

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by NYG

We have to stop over-hyping acceleration and traction. This is how we ended up with the G80.

It doesn't take a lot of effort or engineering to make a car go fast in a straight line. American cars were doing this in the late 60s. Nowadays, unless you're in an SF90 or a 911 Turbo S, you're going to have shitty Teslas walking all over you at every stop light.

Those Model 3 Plaids can beat Formula 1 cars in acceleration. Are you really going to say that the Tesla is faster?

The M340 is not a sports car. The F80 is a sports car, probably the last real one BMW will ever make.

Funny story: I had a Tesla S P90 track me down, we both entered a single lane highway on-ramp, the ramp does a complete 270 degree turn and he was pushing it to keep up with me.....he entered the apex on my tail and I exited the apex with him a good 3-4 car lengths behind. Once we got on the highway he zoomed by me but I knew he was pissed that his car couldn't hold comfortably in a turn!

[NYG]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

Funny story: I had a Tesla S P90 track me down, we both entered a single lane highway on-ramp, the ramp does a complete 270 degree turn and he was pushing it to keep up with me.....he entered the apex on my tail and I exited the apex with him a good 3-4 car lengths behind. Once we got on the highway he zoomed by me but I knew he was pissed that his car couldn't hold comfortably in a turn!

Exactly, that's what irks me about calling 0-60 cars a "sports car."

Sweet 5,000LB all wheel drive car bro, I'm sure they'll engineer a tire that can stop you from understeering and carrying more than 20 mph in a corner in the next 150-200 years.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

I think you used to or do still have a CS. Until last weekend, the CS to me was a beautifully designed car that had newer tech than an E92, but I longed for a manual E92 with a Harrop supercharger. Then, I took the CS to the tail of the dragon. I have never had as much fun in a car as I did last weekend. Handling is unparalleled. Granted, I can't afford to take the CS to the track, so if I had to pick something to enjoy every day it would be a Harrop manual E92 M, the sounds, torque and engagement of the manual make it the perfect car for me. If I had to put an M to a track, the CS would be my first choice every time.

I've been in this same position. Back in 2014, I was deciding between the a E9X 6MT and the 15' M4 6MT. I kept going back and forth in my mind and ultimately went with the M4.

I didn't end up driving a E90 6MT until this past summer when I had one for about a week. Honestly, the E90 felt so soft that I was quite disappointed. I personally think the E90 M3 is one of the best looking cars BMW has ever made and so I really wanted it to be good. But I was too accustomed to the sharper, more accurate, and buttoned down F82 by then. I only considered the chassis and steering when comparing the two cars because outright speed isn't a fair metric. Frankly, other than the sound of the E90 I just couldn't get excited about the car.

I'm still watching the prices though because I do think a E90 M3 with DCT would be an awesome looking family-mobile that will be super comfortable due to its softer nature. Then I can wring the V8 to 8000+ on the way to work after school drop-offs haha

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

I've been in this same position. Back in 2014, I was deciding between the a E9X 6MT and the 15' M4 6MT. I kept going back and forth in my mind and ultimately went with the M4.

I didn't end up driving a E90 6MT until this past summer when I had one for about a week. Honestly, the E90 felt so soft that I was quite disappointed. I personally think the E90 M3 is one of the best looking cars BMW has ever made and so I really wanted it to be good. But I was too accustomed to the sharper, more accurate, and buttoned down F82 by then. I only considered the chassis and steering when comparing the two cars because outright speed isn't a fair metric. Frankly, other than the sound of the E90 I just couldn't get excited about the car.

I'm still watching the prices though because I do think a E90 M3 with DCT would be an awesome looking family-mobile that will be super comfortable due to its softer nature. Then I can wring the V8 to 8000+ on the way to work after school drop-offs haha

Throw a set of proper dampers on E9X and it’s good to go. My buddy’s felt every bit as good as my F82 and then some, he’s rocking Bilstein Clubsports. Actually my biggest surprise was that I much preferred F8X steering to E9X. E9X is just way too assisted, to the point that it feels like EPS. What I loved about driving it back to back with my car was they both share the same fundamental driving characteristics - very easy to get in and get comfortable with

Oh and we are the exact same page about picking up a E9X once things settle down I love the idea of picking one up and “restomodding” with more modern hardware

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by NYG

Exactly, that's what irks me about calling 0-60 cars a "sports car."

I mean how else are those guys gonna measure their d*cks?