Equal-length exhaust discussion: new S55 sounds

[maxbeilke]

Anyone with catless dps, resonated el mid and stock non zcp muffler have a nasty sounding rasp at 1800-2000 rpm?

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

Anyone with catless dps, resonated el mid and stock non zcp muffler have a nasty sounding rasp at 1800-2000 rpm?

Par for the course with catless downpipes. I see your location says Chicago. Contact top gear motorworks in Downers Grove and have them install larger mufflers in place of the resonators. It's less of a big deal and cheaper than you think. Great crew over there. They developed an EL exhaust too so they're familiar with the platform and what's needed to get the tone right.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Par for the course with catless downpipes. I see your location says Chicago. Contact top gear motorworks in Downers Grove and have them install larger mufflers in place of the resonators. It's less of a big deal and cheaper than you think. Great crew over there. They developed an EL exhaust too so they're familiar with the platform and what's needed to get the tone right.

I've heard about there work. The exhaust note with my setup sounds amazing every where else. The rasp only comes when you put actual load on the motor while moving. Standing revs sound amazing. It's odd.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

I've heard about there work. The exhaust note with my setup sounds amazing every where else. The rasp only comes when you put actual load on the motor while moving. Standing revs sound amazing. It's odd.

Yes it's because it's under load. Par for the course. If you want it fixed you need more muffler, really all there is to it. Was just offering a local no hassle solution if you were interested.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

Anyone with catless dps, resonated el mid and stock non zcp muffler have a nasty sounding rasp at 1800-2000 rpm?

Yep, it sucks...and it's exponentially worse with my Remus muffler. Removing the resonators fixes the issue (so does going back to catted downpipes). I think catted downpipes + resonated EL mid pipes was always the goal. It sounds ridiculous every other way. If the rasp doesn't bother you it does scream nicely with catless downpipes and the resonated midpipes but only when you're ripping in the upper RPM limits...as I'm sure you're well aware.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Yes it's because it's under load. Par for the course. If you want it fixed you need more muffler, really all there is to it. Was just offering a local no hassle solution if you were interested.

It's honestly pretty disappointing to say the least. I'm not sure if I want to mess with this one or just go back to my single.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

It's honestly pretty disappointing to say the least. I'm not sure if I want to mess with this one or just go back to my single.

That's fair. Personally I've never heard a catless S55 car that sounds even remotely good enough for my tastes, so I blame the downpipes before anything else. But that's subjective so I get it.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by ntg44

That's fair. Personally I've never heard a catless S55 car that sounds even remotely good enough for my tastes, so I blame the downpipes before anything else. But that's subjective so I get it.

I love how it sounds down low with the single deep and grumbly with plenty of turbo whistle. But it does get quite sloppy up too past 4-5k.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yep, it sucks. It was exponentially worse with my Remus muffler. Removing the resonators fixes the issue (so does going back to catted downpipes).

Really removing the resonators makes it better? I would think non resonated would be worse.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

I love how it sounds down low with the single deep and grumbly with plenty of turbo whistle. But it does get quite sloppy up too past 4-5k.

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

Really removing the resonators makes it better? I would think non resonated would be worse.

It's all subjective but it sounds so nice and thundery without any resonators and any cats. It's smooth. It's just really annoyingly loud (to some) in the upper RPM range.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

It's all subjective but it sounds so nice and thundery without any resonators and any cats. It's smooth. It's just really annoyingly loud (to some) in the upper RPM range.

I tried it with no resonators. And still didn't really like the sound. I went back to my single. In my opinion the EL is best for people with catted downpipes.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

I tried it with no resonators. And still didn't really like the sound. I went back to my single. In my opinion the EL is best for people with catted downpipes.

That's my take but I also went back to single mid pipe.

[Soul Coughing]

I had some time this weekend to get the mid pipe installed. Here's my take on it all.

Installation went alright. I got the downpipe connections off without any fuss, and while I was in there, decided to install the Turner shifter bushing. So I removed the transmission cover, and the upper exhaust shield to access the shifter bushing. That all went smoothly, but left the transmission cover off until the end so that I had more space to make adjustments. I tightened up the new mid pipe to the downpipe as per the instructions, and found that the mid-pipe wanted to be almost right up against the exhaust shield on the side with the straight pipe. I undid the downpipe to mid-pipe bolts again, and tried to move the pipe to the centerline part of the exhaust shield area, but it just wanted to move over to the one side again. So I just left it like that, and continued with the rest of the installation.

I had cut off the rear exhaust 1.5 inches from the welds already (as per the instructions), and started to adjust the rear parts of the mid-pipe (non resonated) and found that I couldn't get the pipes to fit with the stock exhaust, so I had to go back and cut off .25 of an inch of the pipe on the drivers side so that I could get the non-resonated pipes to actually fit the pipes without it pushing the stock exhaust up against the bumper cover. I also added a washer in-between the body, and the AA cross brace to give a little bit more space, but interestingly the clearance issues were between the mid pipe and the exhaust shield above it, and on the side with the straight pipe. Once I lined everything up, I tightened all the bolts, and removed the little spacer they give you but had clearance issues above the exhaust and on the side. I had to bend back the exhaust shield on both sides, and that seemed to give me enough clearance. When I went to install the transmission cover, i could not reach the bolts that hold the metal part of the shield to the frame - right by the transmission exhaust mount - because the pipes were right in front of it. I couldn't snake the bolt from the top of the exhaust pipe, or from the side, as there was no clearance, so for now I just left it. Hopefully there's no vibrations from the cover as its loose on that side.

I started the car, and didn't find any big leaks at the connections - I did get a bunch of condensation leaking from the rear connection at the stock exhaust, and the ball joints. Also, I found a bunch of little pinhole leaks in the welds where they didn't have enough penetration that were leaking exhaust. I didn't get any vibrations from the mid-pipe rattling or hitting anything.

Sound: The car sounds so much better! It sounds like a true inline-6 engine, a bit of a 2JZ mixed with something a little more exotic. I get no rasp like some of the other owners were talking about, it just sounds good! With the non resonated mid-pipe, stock downpipes and ZCP muffler it is probably 25-30% louder with the flaps open. Cold start is louder, but it sounds better. The stock ZCP tuned burbles are now almost too loud and obnoxious. I can hear actual little explosions now at low RPMs; when i do a redline shift, the pops and blowoff 'fart' noise is really loud and will make everyone turn and look at you. For my small town, where I'd like to keep a little bit of respect, I probably can't keep it in sport mode when I'm just cruising due to how much louder my stock ZCP burbles are, and I definitely can't do any redline shifts in sports or sports+ due to the pops and bangs. If I was a little younger and didn't have to see my neighbors on a regular basis, it would be perfect, but I am probably going to weld in some resonators to make it a little quieter.

TL;DR:
Pros: Sound - it is awesome; it sounds so good and is everything I thought it would be!

Cons: Probably too loud for an old fogey like me - non-resonated setup
build quality isn't great - pinhole leaks in welds
installation error? - had to bend back exhaust shields, couldn't access bolts that had been accessible before

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

I had some time this weekend to get the mid pipe installed. Here's my take on it all.

Installation went alright. I got the downpipe connections off without any fuss, and while I was in there, decided to install the Turner shifter bushing. So I removed the transmission cover, and the upper exhaust shield to access the shifter bushing. That all went smoothly, but left the transmission cover off until the end so that I had more space to make adjustments. I tightened up the new mid pipe to the downpipe as per the instructions, and found that the mid-pipe wanted to be almost right up against the exhaust shield on the side with the straight pipe. I undid the downpipe to mid-pipe bolts again, and tried to move the pipe to the centerline part of the exhaust shield area, but it just wanted to move over to the one side again. So I just left it like that, and continued with the rest of the installation.

I had cut off the rear exhaust 1.5 inches from the welds already (as per the instructions), and started to adjust the rear parts of the mid-pipe (non resonated) and found that I couldn't get the pipes to fit with the stock exhaust, so I had to go back and cut off .25 of an inch of the pipe on the drivers side so that I could get the non-resonated pipes to actually fit the pipes without it pushing the stock exhaust up against the bumper cover. I also added a washer in-between the body, and the AA cross brace to give a little bit more space, but interestingly the clearance issues were between the mid pipe and the exhaust shield above it, and on the side with the straight pipe. Once I lined everything up, I tightened all the bolts, and removed the little spacer they give you but had clearance issues above the exhaust and on the side. I had to bend back the exhaust shield on both sides, and that seemed to give me enough clearance. When I went to install the transmission cover, i could not reach the bolts that hold the metal part of the shield to the frame - right by the transmission exhaust mount - because the pipes were right in front of it. I couldn't snake the bolt from the top of the exhaust pipe, or from the side, as there was no clearance, so for now I just left it. Hopefully there's no vibrations from the cover as its loose on that side.

I started the car, and didn't find any big leaks at the connections - I did get a bunch of condensation leaking from the rear connection at the stock exhaust, and the ball joints. Also, I found a bunch of little pinhole leaks in the welds where they didn't have enough penetration that were leaking exhaust. I didn't get any vibrations from the mid-pipe rattling or hitting anything.

Sound: The car sounds so much better! It sounds like a true inline-6 engine, a bit of a 2JZ mixed with something a little more exotic. I get no rasp like some of the other owners were talking about, it just sounds good! With the non resonated mid-pipe, stock downpipes and ZCP muffler it is probably 25-30% louder with the flaps open. Cold start is louder, but it sounds better. The stock ZCP tuned burbles are now almost too loud and obnoxious. I can hear actual little explosions now at low RPMs; when i do a redline shift, the pops and blowoff 'fart' noise is really loud and will make everyone turn and look at you. For my small town, where I'd like to keep a little bit of respect, I probably can't keep it in sport mode when I'm just cruising due to how much louder my stock ZCP burbles are, and I definitely can't do any redline shifts in sports or sports+ due to the pops and bangs. If I was a little younger and didn't have to see my neighbors on a regular basis, it would be perfect, but I am probably going to weld in some resonators to make it a little quieter.

TL;DR:
Pros: Sound - it is awesome; it sounds so good and is everything I thought it would be!

Cons: Probably too loud for an old fogey like me - non-resonated setup
build quality isn't great - pinhole leaks in welds
installation error? - had to bend back exhaust shields, couldn't access bolts that had been accessible before

Get a sound clip up!

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Soul Coughing

I had some time this weekend to get the mid pipe installed. Here's my take on it all.

Installation went alright. I got the downpipe connections off without any fuss, and while I was in there, decided to install the Turner shifter bushing. So I removed the transmission cover, and the upper exhaust shield to access the shifter bushing. That all went smoothly, but left the transmission cover off until the end so that I had more space to make adjustments. I tightened up the new mid pipe to the downpipe as per the instructions, and found that the mid-pipe wanted to be almost right up against the exhaust shield on the side with the straight pipe. I undid the downpipe to mid-pipe bolts again, and tried to move the pipe to the centerline part of the exhaust shield area, but it just wanted to move over to the one side again. So I just left it like that, and continued with the rest of the installation.

I had cut off the rear exhaust 1.5 inches from the welds already (as per the instructions), and started to adjust the rear parts of the mid-pipe (non resonated) and found that I couldn't get the pipes to fit with the stock exhaust, so I had to go back and cut off .25 of an inch of the pipe on the drivers side so that I could get the non-resonated pipes to actually fit the pipes without it pushing the stock exhaust up against the bumper cover. I also added a washer in-between the body, and the AA cross brace to give a little bit more space, but interestingly the clearance issues were between the mid pipe and the exhaust shield above it, and on the side with the straight pipe. Once I lined everything up, I tightened all the bolts, and removed the little spacer they give you but had clearance issues above the exhaust and on the side. I had to bend back the exhaust shield on both sides, and that seemed to give me enough clearance. When I went to install the transmission cover, i could not reach the bolts that hold the metal part of the shield to the frame - right by the transmission exhaust mount - because the pipes were right in front of it. I couldn't snake the bolt from the top of the exhaust pipe, or from the side, as there was no clearance, so for now I just left it. Hopefully there's no vibrations from the cover as its loose on that side.

I started the car, and didn't find any big leaks at the connections - I did get a bunch of condensation leaking from the rear connection at the stock exhaust, and the ball joints. Also, I found a bunch of little pinhole leaks in the welds where they didn't have enough penetration that were leaking exhaust. I didn't get any vibrations from the mid-pipe rattling or hitting anything.

Sound: The car sounds so much better! It sounds like a true inline-6 engine, a bit of a 2JZ mixed with something a little more exotic. I get no rasp like some of the other owners were talking about, it just sounds good! With the non resonated mid-pipe, stock downpipes and ZCP muffler it is probably 25-30% louder with the flaps open. Cold start is louder, but it sounds better. The stock ZCP tuned burbles are now almost too loud and obnoxious. I can hear actual little explosions now at low RPMs; when i do a redline shift, the pops and blowoff 'fart' noise is really loud and will make everyone turn and look at you. For my small town, where I'd like to keep a little bit of respect, I probably can't keep it in sport mode when I'm just cruising due to how much louder my stock ZCP burbles are, and I definitely can't do any redline shifts in sports or sports+ due to the pops and bangs. If I was a little younger and didn't have to see my neighbors on a regular basis, it would be perfect, but I am probably going to weld in some resonators to make it a little quieter.

TL;DR:
Pros: Sound - it is awesome; it sounds so good and is everything I thought it would be!

Cons: Probably too loud for an old fogey like me - non-resonated setup
build quality isn't great - pinhole leaks in welds
installation error? - had to bend back exhaust shields, couldn't access bolts that had been accessible before

Tuning out burbles is definitely the way to go with EL IMO - I find that burbles actually mask / distract from the sound. And it sounds so good that I wouldn’t want to take away from that experience. The sharp pop when shifting under load is just a characteristic of S55, but with burbles off it sounds much more in place since it’s one of the few pops you will get.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by six75LT

here are 2 clips i took. not the best videos (taken with an iphone near a highway lol) but hopefully helps somewhat. absolute night and day difference in person though. above 4k RPMs and this thing sings. it sounds exotic not gonna lie, especially on the downshifts. with the stock setup (valves open) downshifting was pathetic but now i find myself upshifting just to downshift 3 seconds later, for no reason at all.

will get some more clips next week and upload those as well.

It’s that last 1000-1500 of the rev range that is just sonic nirvana

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

It’s that last 1000-1500 of the rev range that is just sonic nirvana

Yeah, that top range RPM is the money. If it sounded like that all the time I'd have kept it. It's the fact that 80% of the time it sounds like a Honda Civic with a exhaust upgrade that I couldn't do it.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yeah, that top range RPM is the money. If it sounded like that all the time I'd have kept it. It's the fact that 80% of the time it sounds like a Honda Civic with a exhaust upgrade that I couldn't do it.

Yeah with a catless setup it seems to be very finnicky and has the potential to turn into a raspfest without the right resonators / muffler. Did you ever try it with hi-flow cats?

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Yeah, that top range RPM is the money. If it sounded like that all the time I'd have kept it. It's the fact that 80% of the time it sounds like a Honda Civic with a exhaust upgrade that I couldn't do it.

Exactly how I feel. Past 3k the car sounds so amazing. But normal driving around 600-2000 literally sounded like a civic. Even my neighbor who doesn't know much about cars asked me what happened to my car while I was driving it around with the el midpipe.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yeah with a catless setup it seems to be very finnicky and has the potential to turn into a raspfest without the right resonators / muffler. Did you ever try it with hi-flow cats?

I mean, the stock downpipes are technically 'hi flow' cats but my tuner and I are working on a Flex tune and I have upgraded turbos and he was really against the idea, even with an aftermarket option and basically brought me back to reality and highlighted the fact that I'm chasing 'rice' and I need to get my sh*t together.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by maxbeilke

Exactly how I feel. Past 3k the car sounds so amazing. But normal driving around 600-2000 literally sounded like a civic. Even my neighbor who doesn't know much about cars asked me what happened to my car while I was driving it around with the el midpipe.

Right? But the original 2>1 AA midpipe sounds like a deep, thundery monster...and the long turbo hiss is just the cherry on top.

[maxbeilke]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Right? But the original 2>1 AA midpipe sounds like a deep, thundery monster...and the long turbo hiss is just the cherry on top.

Exactly. The deepness and turbo sounds sound so great even from inside the cabin.