Replacing front brake rotors

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Sorry to hear that man. I would like to know how BMW NA service documents determine abuse or non-warranty coverage. Ex. "discolored calipers = abuse" or "deny for suspected track use." etc.

My argument to the service guys would be I drive in the canyons or in the mountains, these are just public roads. I'm pretty sure if we drove those types of roads for extended periods we could discolor the calipers.

This was my "defense" as well. However, one of the SAs and a shop foreman from a different dealer both showed me the same service bulletin type of document which classifies any discoloration as abuse no matter where it happened (track or back roads). Now enforcing this tiny footprint strictly, on the other hand, is a different story. As we all know, a lot of people got their rotors replaced right after track days without even actually having fully worn rotors (i.e. mistaking track pad deposit as warped rotors etc). I think I was just very unlucky...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I tried three different dealers in Bay Area and contacted three most recommended SAs at those dealers. I'm not gonna name the SAs but I originally got denied at Fremont, then contacted BMW of Mountain View and Peter Pan BMW. All SAs told me that since my calipers are almost black, BMW NA may deny their warranty/maintenance claim and they may end up losing money. They basically consider discolored calipers as tracked or abused. One of the SAs even told me that their shop foreman can basically black flag my car in BMW NA's system if he thinks I track my car, implying they might void my warranty. We had the argument about how pointless and stupid to have an M car as just a highway cruiser that you are not allowed to track. Please also note that I didn't even mention or admit that I track my car to two of those SAs. As soon as they knew about my calipers they started talking about tracking and abuse. Maybe I'm just unlucky but already sick of chasing a new dealer to get this sorted. I'll buy a pair of rotors and be done with it.

it sounds like you pretty much went in "cold" to the SAs, but what I meant was find a good SA via your network and build up a working relationship and you'll find a lot more flexibilitt

You better believe when I find a good tech/sa/shop the trunk is sometimes loaded up tech's fav liquor and SA fav craft brew. I also got some holiday snacks for the shop a couple of times also.

It takes time and a bit of money but well worth it to build up a good relationship....

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

it sounds like you pretty much went in "cold" to the SAs, but what I meant was find a good SA via your network and build up a working relationship and you'll find a lot more flexibilitt

You better believe when I find a good tech/sa/shop the trunk is sometimes loaded up tech's fav liquor and SA fav craft brew. I also got some holiday snacks for the shop a couple of times also.

It takes time and a bit of money but well worth it to build up a good relationship....

No I didn't go in "cold". The SA at BMW of Fremont is known to be the best SA in Bay Area among our BMW community. Almost every M owner that I know goes to him. I have been working with him for the last three years and I always make sure to show my appreciation throughout the year randomly or during Christmas timeframe. He's a great guy and has helped me countless time with so many things that I don't wanna disclose here. When I got rejected for the rotors, he felt just as bad as me and straight out forwarded me all the email exchanges between him and the shop foreman. He was 100% transparent but it was this new foreman who created the huge headache. When it comes to other 2 SAs that I talked to... Well yes I went in "cold" to them obviously because I'm not gonna wait another year or two to build a relationship with a new SA so that I can get my rotors replaced. Anyways... Long story short, I have an SA that I have a good relationship with and he couldn't help me for the first time.

[nicknaz]

sucks / good luck / time for a big brake kit

[wakdady]

I'm gonna bring this one back.

Many of you folks seem to think the SA is the one who will help you, or that being a good SA or bad, or whatnot is what makes it.
Guess what, it's not.
It's the shop, the foreman, the rules.
I know SA's who THEMSELVES can't get their own brakes covered by the very team they work with! Some shops are good, some shops suck. Now, with that being said. Be nice to the SA, it still helps.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by wakdady

I'm gonna bring this one back.

Many of you folks seem to think the SA is the one who will help you, or that being a good SA or bad, or whatnot is what makes it.
Guess what, it's not.
It's the shop, the foreman, the rules.
I know SA's who THEMSELVES can't get their own brakes covered by the very team they work with! Some shops are good, some shops suck. Now, with that being said. Be nice to the SA, it still helps.

I found it interesting that some of the M2 owners have actually got their CALIPERS replaced under warranty for discoloration (presumably from tracking). I might just have to try that next time I'm in for service, but seems pretty crazy to me.

Wishing everyone good SA's for christmas.

[MRV99]

What is strange is I was at the track with my SA watching a bike race. Got to talking about brakes/pads, Bikes vs cars and how they differ(I was learning bike stuff). I told him about my brakes starting to go green. He was in disbelief so he came over to the car and looked. Sure enough they are getting green in the cylinder area and still blue on the edges. I told him about the "bmw color changing paint to track detection". He immediately asked the shop managers and did a bulletin check for m car brakes and could not find anything. Does anybody know the bulletin number/title so I can pass it on. He wants to read the bulletin just so he is informed. He has a bunch of ///m guys and with the Joliet Autobahn very close, we have the tendency to have easy access to track days and a lot of us do events.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I found it interesting that some of the M2 owners have actually got their CALIPERS replaced under warranty for discoloration (presumably from tracking). I might just have to try that next time I'm in for service, but seems pretty crazy to me.

Wishing everyone good SA's for christmas.

Those would be owners who go to true enthusiast friendly dealers and are nice to their SAs

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I found it interesting that some of the M2 owners have actually got their CALIPERS replaced under warranty for discoloration (presumably from tracking). I might just have to try that next time I'm in for service, but seems pretty crazy to me.

Wishing everyone good SA's for christmas.

My dealer has replaced all 4 calipers on my M4 under warranty (and one caliper twice) due to burnt dust seals. I have a great dealer .

The rotors however are not covered in the included maintenance plan in Canada, so I have to pay to get those replaced. Went through one set of front and one set of rear thus far, after 65,000km and about 50-60 track days.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My dealer has replaced all 4 calipers on my M4 under warranty (and one caliper twice) due to burnt dust seals. I have a great dealer .

The rotors however are not covered in the included maintenance plan in Canada, so I have to pay to get those replaced. Went through one set of front and one set of rear thus far, after 65,000km and about 50-60 track days.

Wow, that's awesome! I go in next week for 30k maintenance..wondering if I should complain

[Nothing]

Each person and car is different but how much abuse are most people seeing their calipers survive before needing servicing or a rebuild? Or dare I say... discoloring?

I ran a cheap cooling duct & bracket for the front calipers and feel like that has helped some but it's anecdotal evidence.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Each person and car is different but how much abuse are most people seeing their calipers survive before needing servicing or a rebuild? Or dare I say... discoloring?

I ran a cheap cooling duct & bracket for the front calipers and feel like that has helped some but it's anecdotal evidence.

That's a valid question...here is what my PS pad (only the inside pad) looked like after the very last session of an event back in June. The pad got so hot it bent the backing plate.

It could be from the caliper pins sticking or from the caliper piston binding, I do not know. On track I was getting some ABS chatter, but nothing that would make me think this was happening. This was a brand new set of PFC08s, first event trying them, and all but this pad are still in good shape... 7 events on the calipers, not sure what the rebuild interval really is though.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

That's a valid question...here is what my PS pad (only the inside pad) looked like after the very last session of an event back in June. The pad got so hot it bent the backing plate.

It could be from the caliper pins sticking or from the caliper piston binding, I do not know. On track I was getting some ABS chatter, but nothing that would make me think this was happening. This was a brand new set of PFC08s, first event trying them, and all but this pad are still in good shape... 7 events on the calipers, not sure what the rebuild interval really is though.

Wow! Yeah, if that was a new pad it definitely looks like it got stuck closed. I'm sure you use aluminum or copper grease on the back of the pads but are we supposed to go the same on the caliper pins? I'm used to looking after guide bolts on standard brakes but haven't been told to grease the caliper pins on Brembos.

[FLOSS M]

Holy Crap ..... you got your money's worth out of those pads !!!
I would never run them that thin

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

Holy Crap ..... you got your money's worth out of those pads !!!
I would never run them that thin

No not really. This was a brand new set when I started the event, all the pads look good except this one (passenger side caliper, inside pad). I would not knowingly run them this low, somehow the rotor survived tho.