Bend Calibration Intercooler Recommendations

[hellokitty]

Found this on Facebook…

TLDR: Wagner top mount intercooler is the best for performance, VRSF is the worst. 20 whp difference on a dyno back to back, same day.

[Abacus38]

I wonder did they test the Bimmerworld one? I heard that was the best one but it's twice as expensive as the Wagner one though

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by Abacus38

I wonder did they test the Bimmerworld one? I heard that was the best one but it's twice as expensive as the Wagner one though

I don't think the Bimmerworld one is worth it unless you are racing competitively.

There has been debates among these forums on how these top mount intercoolers stack up as there has been very little published data on actual gains. The debate has been going on since the CSF unit came out, what, 7 years ago?

I still can't believe it took this long for some actual data, but then, our cars have reached the age where more and more people are upgrading their stock units due to the stock one failing or for peace of mind / durability as we tack on miles and our cars age gracefully

[Commanderwiggin]

Here's the blog link for those like me with OCD when clicking phone screenshots :P
https://www.bendcalibration.com/blog...itle-two-mfb58

[MR RIZK]

Parking performance/efficiency keep in mind that the Wagner has clearance issues for the M2C

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by MR RIZK

Parking performance/efficiency keep in mind that the Wagner has clearance issues for the M2C

There is a very tiny tiny piece on the underside of the hood that needs to be removed for the M2C yes. The thin metal doesn't appear to offer anything in structural support anyways. Fitment imo is spot on otherwise in my M2C the past couple years.

[heitzke]

Obviously a big hypothetical "I wonder" but I wonder how some of the other similar price point options fare here - Mishimoto, Garrett, etc. (i'm sure i'm missing someone else).

The Mishimoto piece was pretty high on my list, especially at their sale price of ~1500.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by heitzke

Obviously a big hypothetical "I wonder" but I wonder how some of the other similar price point options fare here - Mishimoto, Garrett, etc. (i'm sure i'm missing someone else).

The Mishimoto piece was pretty high on my list, especially at their sale price of ~1500.

I would pick Wagner over the other two. I don't know where the Garrett one is made, but I do know Mishimoto is made in China.

Wagner is made in Germany.

[Commanderwiggin]

I picked up my Wagner for like $1750 iirc; there are discounts that come out from time to time.

A big point to be made on the coolant volume...the amount of enthalpy to increase the temp of a fluid will be much more (takes much more energy) with a greater volume. During a log I've seen very minimal increase in temp and the temps drop radically when off throttle. Also I've seen another car that had the full Wagner front and top kits and did a full mile run up to 205mph and the temp only increased 11'C!

Regarding Mishimoto, Bend already mentioned in the instagram post that it's no good.

I'll also mention my good friend had a C&R and it actually overheated on him at a race I was at. It was a PJ tune and fully built motor car making 900+ and had one of those interchillers as well. I think it may have been associated with that tbh but regardless he was underimpressed with it and sold it. It does look pretty nice with those billet end tanks though but for that price you may as well put a custom order for a microtube heat exchanger with F1 tech.

I think the Garrett looks great for it's small size and that imo would be the upgrade I'd do over the other small options...I haven't seen many cars running it or logs on it myself so I would be curious if someone has them for a tuned car. I also run a very large Garrett intercooler in my M3 and it works great but with intercoolers, the bigger the core, the more cooling it can do.

[Wanted_M]

^^ I myself was leaning towards Garrett IC and waiting for upcoming sales to see. They have some nice data on their website about the IC. I asked Bend which one was better OEM or VRSF lol. One thing no one discusses is the IC auxiliary radiator, what if you upgrade that too and keep stock IC?

Has anyone upgraded both exchangers with OEM IC?
To me that's where the bang for the buck is (heat rejection/coolant volume).

[heitzke]

That's a good point on the capacity. I totally missed the Mishimoto commentary on the IG post, but generally just glad to see some actual data coming out for these things this many years after they've been making aftermarket replacement products.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Wanted_M

^^ I myself was leaning towards Garrett IC and waiting for upcoming sales to see. They have some nice data on their website about the IC. I asked Bend which one was better OEM or VRSF lol. One thing no one discusses is the IC auxiliary radiator, what if you upgrade that too and keep stock IC?

Has anyone upgraded both exchangers with OEM IC?
To me that's where the bang for the buck is (heat rejection/coolant volume).

Regarding the front mount; this is where the heat load is released from the overall system. The Top mount does the initial work to remove the heat from the air; then the heat in the system are released from the two front mount heat exchangers.

The factory front mounts work very well and regardless the first step should be the top mount. The reduced backpressure along with reduction of air temps is where the biggest gains are going to be yielded and only once the whole system reaches the point of heat soak and cannot release the energy faster than it's put in will you get the engine reducing power (depending on calibration) to compensate for the increase in temps.

Having been on the road course you will see in logs how that heat is effectively managed and your tuner will increase power to the capacity of the system to match your driving and ambient temps.

To put it simply: Top mount first, front mounts second and really beneficial for road course, extremely warm climate and long or repeated pulls.

[Wanted_M]

^^Thank you sir, now I will have to figure out if it fits CS hood. I can't just cut it up lol.

[theweebabySeamus]

This reads more like a 'Wagner is better than VRSF' than 'Wagner offers the best performance'.

[bmpclc]

I notice quicker turbo spool & faster throttle response right after Wagner IC upgrade.
Didnt do any comparison with IT temp or HP gain, I'm sure its better LOL.

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I would pick Wagner over the other two. I don't know where the Garrett one is made, but I do know Mishimoto is made in China.

Wagner is made in Germany.

I am sure Garrett and Wagner are on par with each other as well as Forge. I would be surprised if there was all that much difference between them for performance. Hope more tests are done at some point. Definitely interested to know!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Thank you for sharing, im not surprised by the results

+1 for Wagner

[TopJimmy]

Even though you'll always see the +1 for Wagner from me, I can speak a tiny bit towards Garrett. A buddy was tuning big turbos for 1K WHP with Halim and was told to get the Garrett. He already had an upgraded TMIC but was still soaking heat during repeat dyno pulls. When he got the Garrett on his IATs dropped to acceptable levels. Sorry no hard data, but a request from Halim gets a little star in my notebook.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

I am sure Garrett and Wagner are on par with each other as well as Forge. I would be surprised if there was all that much difference between them for performance. Hope more tests are done at some point. Definitely interested to know!

FYI if you read into the footnotes a little deeper, the folks at Bend reference a 4pass which the only one I know of is the Forge and they say it's not good. Also I know a guy who just swapped from a Forge to the Wagner at Bend's recommendation and it was a significant improvement.

Why didn't bend blast every vendor openly? I'm sure that's the reason lol...go after the junk first.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by bmpclc

I notice quicker turbo spool & faster throttle response right after Wagner IC upgrade.
Didnt do any comparison with IT temp or HP gain, I'm sure its better LOL.

This was the first thing I noticed on the same calibration and my tuner Bend had to modify my boost control a little bit as it was overboosting on my kill tune after going from stock to the Wagner.

[Commanderwiggin]

Garrett - 47% Bar-Plate 2 Pass (Back to Front coolant flow), 7.2" x 9.8" x 3.6"

Wagner - 114% Tube-Fin 2 Pass (Back to Front coolant flow), 7.3" x 11.3" x 4.5",

Also for quick reference I added this...it stood out to me when I made the decision a couple years back and the Garrett was my second choice.

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

FYI if you read into the footnotes a little deeper, the folks at Bend reference a 4pass which the only one I know of is the Forge and they say it's not good. Also I know a guy who just swapped from a Forge to the Wagner at Bend's recommendation and it was a significant improvement.

Why didn't bend blast every vendor openly? I'm sure that's the reason lol...go after the junk first.

That's pretty surprising for Forge. Noted.

I do know Garrett is one of the main core suppliers though, so I would at least hope they make a better intercooler than most. I would love to see how they stack up against the competition.