Brake Fluid - Frequency of Change?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by NYG

All that matters in life.

Right?!

Otherwise I'd just stick to iracing and other video games instead of camping out in the paddock all weekend

EDIT: @ohioRiderAaron and @SVT_Shadow, aren't both of you using 100tw tires and driving hard enough to turn the blue calipers green? Truly, one brake fluid change per year is working for you guys? How many track hours is that in between changes. thanks for the perspective

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

What do you think about people who go under their car after each event and put a wrench on every possible bolt and tighten it?

That could be considered the pinnacle of unnecessary touching of things on the car by some, and an absolutely necessary part of post track maintenance by others

I am not there yet, but my teammate keeps pushing me to do it, and I am starting to come around to her point of view

Unless the car is from the stone age that sounds like a horrible idea. But then again I regularly see people torquing wheels after every session with hot wheels and bolts/studs

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Right?!

Otherwise I'd just stick to iracing and other video games instead of camping out in the paddock all weekend

EDIT: @ohioRiderAaron and @SVT_Shadow, aren't both of you using 100tw tires and driving hard enough to turn the blue calipers green? Truly, one brake fluid change per year is working for you guys? How many track hours is that in between changes. thanks for the perspective

literally one change a year

I've never run the front stock calipers on the F80 or the E9X, just the PFC BBK, but I did run the rears on the F80 and turned them green and burnt the dust boots in a weekend, so now there's a BBK back there as well (AP Radical in the rear of the F80)

It really says something when I can deplete a 28mm pad over a 2 day weekend due to braking like a nutjob but never run into performance issues with the brakes.

If I did not push braking zones then the pads would last plenty, but believe me, there is no more effective way to get a Cup car out of your way than 'terror tactics', aka them thinking you are going to plow into them in each braking zone

Now it seems like SRF is hard to come by in the US, so I've spent some time buying that good stuff from everyone I could find and now have 10 bottles sitting downstairs in the basement together with my pads and rotors. That's how good that it is

[fanatic1]

SRF Backorder ships tomorrow from speedway motors, will confirm if this actually happens

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

literally one change a year

I've never run the front stock calipers on the F80 or the E9X, just the PFC BBK, but I did run the rears on the F80 and turned them green and burnt the dust boots in a weekend, so now there's a BBK back there as well (AP Radical in the rear of the F80)

It really says something when I can deplete a 28mm pad over a 2 day weekend due to braking like a nutjob but never run into performance issues with the brakes.

If I did not push braking zones then the pads would last plenty, but believe me, there is no more effective way to get a Cup car out of your way than 'terror tactics', aka them thinking you are going to plow into them in each braking zone

Now it seems like SRF is hard to come by in the US, so I've spent some time buying that good stuff from everyone I could find and now have 10 bottles sitting downstairs in the basement together with my pads and rotors. That's how good that it is

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

Braking as late as possible surely gives one of most significant lap time improvements, but (especially for newly learning people) braking real hard would be one of the last pieces of the puzzle after mastering/at least becoming good with other basics.

It's actually the opposite. Maximizing braking deceleration is where the least time can be gained. Think about what is the proportionate amount of time you spend braking over the course of an entire lap, it is pretty minimal.

In fact, I'd say most novice and intermediate can gain way more time by braking LESS and increase cornering speeds.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's actually the opposite. Maximizing braking deceleration is where the least time can be gained. Think about what is the proportionate amount of time you spend braking over the course of an entire lap, it is pretty minimal.

In fact, I'd say most novice and intermediate can gain way more time by braking LESS and increase cornering speeds.

If you count on all the corners on an entire lap, you are right for smaller braking zones. However, for big braking zones after long straights I think it makes significant difference. I agree that novice and intermediate would rather lose entry speed from too much braking or it can get dangerous due to aggressive trail braking without good weight transfer and recovery skills. I actually learned like you say by focusing on entry speed, car control at limits and smooth weight transfer rather than braking hard. Then I realized I was not braking hard enough, and figured out braking harder/later and raising my top speed few miles higher in just two long straights made quite a bit of lap time improvement.

Not to debate nor project my ego, but just sharing what I learned personally while still endlessly learning.

Edit: For novice/intermediate you are right on braking hard will actually lose time and it's correct to say braking hard is not a way for easy lap time improvement. So my statement is wrong in that sense and I can be bashed. But for maximizing braking while also maximizing all other- entry-mid-exit speed, I think it gives significant improvements.

[robbo mcs]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's actually the opposite. Maximizing braking deceleration is where the least time can be gained. Think about what is the proportionate amount of time you spend braking over the course of an entire lap, it is pretty minimal.

In fact, I'd say most novice and intermediate can gain way more time by braking LESS and increase cornering speeds.

I agree with this.

Also, in terms of lap times, braking is not just about slowing the car down. Getting the balance and setup of the car through corners is just as important. Finessing the brake pedal to balance the car, maximise corner speed is where there is a lot of time to be gained for novices. The brake pedal is not an on/off switch, and you don’t necessarily want to be slamming it on at the last possible moment.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Right?!

Otherwise I'd just stick to iracing and other video games instead of camping out in the paddock all weekend

EDIT: @ohioRiderAaron and @SVT_Shadow, aren't both of you using 100tw tires and driving hard enough to turn the blue calipers green? Truly, one brake fluid change per year is working for you guys? How many track hours is that in between changes. thanks for the perspective

One fluid change per year, never had an issue with fluid whether Motul or OE. Sorry I don't have a log of track hours; multiple events (Watkins/Pitt/NCM), running "instructor" pace for most sessions. Honestly I'd bet you could over a year of use out of it without issues, but I prefer to have everything fresh at the beginning of the track season.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's actually the opposite. Maximizing braking deceleration is where the least time can be gained. Think about what is the proportionate amount of time you spend braking over the course of an entire lap, it is pretty minimal.

In fact, I'd say most novice and intermediate can gain way more time by braking LESS and increase cornering speeds.

Novice and immediate should work on carrying more speed in the tighter section areas first then work up the speed in the high V-max areas. Eventually every area of the track matters tho . My experience is I always leave a few tenths out there if I dont get those extra few mph on the back/front straights.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Novice and immediate should work on carrying more speed in the tighter section areas first then work up the speed in the high V-max areas. Eventually every area of the track matters tho . My experience is I always leave a few tenths out there if I dont get those extra few mph on the back/front straights.

Hi, I since we have been discussing braking, I wanted to share some insights from reviewing data with my teammate yesterday at Sonoma, as I'm working on getting down to the target time for my SM, and found 3 things that could help others:

• transition from throttle to brake was too slow in some areas (e.g. there was a gap in throttle position going to 0 and start of brake pressure going non zero). This coasting cost me some MPH and time
• My deceleration Gs started sooner and my brake PSI was lower, as compared to my faster teammate. combined with point 1 above, this means I need to keep the full throttle longer, and brake over a shorter distance with higher pressure on the brake pedal. This cost me a lot, since it enables competitors to pass me more easily under braking, on top of the time i lose from being off the gas
• i am 5-7mph slower entering T10 at sonoma (fastest section, least run offs) and need to work up to a more appropriate entry speed

I can't say enough good things about having a driver data logger, data from a front runner competitor, and same day data from a faster teammate, and a friend/coach to help out. Now that I'm within 5% of the car's target time, qualitative feedback isn't as helpful anymore.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi, I since we have been discussing braking, I wanted to share some insights from reviewing data with my teammate yesterday at Sonoma, as I'm working on getting down to the target time for my SM, and found 3 things that could help others:

• transition from throttle to brake was too slow in some areas (e.g. there was a gap in throttle position going to 0 and start of brake pressure going non zero). This coasting cost me some MPH and time
• My deceleration Gs started sooner and my brake PSI was lower, as compared to my faster teammate. combined with point 1 above, this means I need to keep the full throttle longer, and brake over a shorter distance with higher pressure on the brake pedal. This cost me a lot, since it enables competitors to pass me more easily under braking, on top of the time i lose from being off the gas
• i am 5-7mph slower entering T10 at sonoma (fastest section, least run offs) and need to work up to a more appropriate entry speed

I can't say enough good things about having a driver data logger, data from a front runner competitor, and same day data from a faster teammate, and a friend/coach to help out. Now that I'm within 5% of the car's target time, qualitative feedback isn't as helpful anymore.

Good points. The spec classes are so competitive and all the cars are same HP/weight, its very difficult to pass a similar competitor on acceleration or corner exit. The vast majority of my passes in W2W come in the braking zone or at least setup by the brake zone. Learning how to set someone up, being able to brake later than them, and still control the car while at the limit is one of the art forms of racing we all try to master.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi, I since we have been discussing braking, I wanted to share some insights from reviewing data with my teammate yesterday at Sonoma, as I'm working on getting down to the target time for my SM, and found 3 things that could help others:

• transition from throttle to brake was too slow in some areas (e.g. there was a gap in throttle position going to 0 and start of brake pressure going non zero). This coasting cost me some MPH and time
• My deceleration Gs started sooner and my brake PSI was lower, as compared to my faster teammate. combined with point 1 above, this means I need to keep the full throttle longer, and brake over a shorter distance with higher pressure on the brake pedal. This cost me a lot, since it enables competitors to pass me more easily under braking, on top of the time i lose from being off the gas
• i am 5-7mph slower entering T10 at sonoma (fastest section, least run offs) and need to work up to a more appropriate entry speed

I can't say enough good things about having a driver data logger, data from a front runner competitor, and same day data from a faster teammate, and a friend/coach to help out. Now that I'm within 5% of the car's target time, qualitative feedback isn't as helpful anymore.

Yup good points! I use HLT and briefly tried AIMsolo but I honestly don't spend enough time digging into data, I definitely know I'm leaving time out on the track. If I venture into W2W or karting I will try diving deeper again. For the most part my transition from full throttle to brake is pretty quick (I think) and shows up in graph as a pretty sharp curve/slope change.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Note SRF is not silicon based. Silicon based is DOT 5.1 IIRC

SRF does not void any warranty, besides, I would love to see anyone visually distinguish OEM fluids from SRF

Good to know - dealership using scare tactics? :

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

SRF Backorder ships tomorrow from speedway motors, will confirm if this actually happens

Yeah, still on back order, EVERYWHERE -SRF

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Yeah, still on back order, EVERYWHERE -SRF

I have 2 bottles I’m not using (my SM is not brake intensive enough to need it and have been using Motul 600)

PM me?

[David0ff]

I do a full flush every 50x20 min sessions (~2000kms)
I bleed the callipers all 6 nipples every 10-20 depending on pedal feel