Top Mount Intercooler and heat exchanger? Which one are you running and does it help?

[sly1types]

Hey guys i have been looking into topmount intercoolers and heat exchangers. I see a lot of guys were going to CSF b/c their name but it seems their double pass design builds some pressure so the dyno numbers look bad. I am looking for real world road course results.

I'm getting 130-140 IATS after a 20 or 25 min session is 90 deg heat. I am going to try going to water wetter and see if that helps some.

What have your results been? with what setup and what tune?

Right now i'm thinking of doing the Wagner top mount and maybe their front and side heat exchangers, but its the most $$ at $4k. For this kind of money it has to work very well. It looks like a single pass, doesn't build pressure and has a lot larger core on the topmount and heatexhangers including the side one.
https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...24-logo-1.html

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...400001003.html

Or maybe go to Wagner topmount and the CSF front only heat exchanger? This is what i'm leaning towards as it would about $2700
https://csfrace.com/bmw-f8x-m3-m4-co...#heatexchanger

Or maybe do the Mishimoto topmount and their front only heat exchanger.
https://www.mishimoto.com/shop-make-...-bmw-f80-m3-m4

[NYG]

Which sensor are you reading?

The power train cooling on the F8x is a work of art but I'm assuming that it may not be adequate for tuned cars.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by NYG

Which sensor are you reading?

The power train cooling on the F8x is a work of art but I'm assuming that it may not be adequate for tuned cars.

The intake air temp on the BM3 logs, I believe it's right above the Jpipe on the charge cooler.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by sly1types

The intake air temp on the BM3 logs, I believe it's right above the Jpipe on the charge cooler.

Got it, I'm already forgetting things about the car. I had like 3 intake temp sensors on the Z06.

To be honest 130-140F on a 25 minute session in heat is pretty damn good for temps in charge. You're still a good 20 degrees off from setting off a CEL (I think, its like 160F).

I'd only upgrade if it's actually causing a problem. Otherwise, enjoy.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by NYG

Got it, I'm already forgetting things about the car. I had like 3 intake temp sensors on the Z06.

To be honest 130-140F on a 25 minute session in heat is pretty damn good for temps in charge. You're still a good 20 degrees off from setting off a CEL (I think, its like 160F).

I'd only upgrade if it's actually causing a problem. Otherwise, enjoy.

I agree those arnt bad and I'm not getting a limp mode. But if I can get a legit 15+ IAT drop then I could see it being worth it. This was only on 93oct, next I will be going with about E50 without adding boost, F80 Paul was saying that will also help.

If I have to I will do 50/50 water meth adder. I really want about 550wheel at the end of a session.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by sly1types

I agree those arnt bad and I'm not getting a limp mode. But if I can get a legit 15+ IAT drop then I could see it being worth it. This was only on 93oct, next I will be going with about E50 without adding boost, F80 Paul was saying that will also help.

If I have to I will do 50/50 water meth adder. I really want about 550wheel at the end of a session.

I don't think 15F is worth the upgrade, especially at that price. Pretty sure if you take your engine cover off you'll get 10F lower temps.

Do you have fuel trim and timing logs for that session? I don't think you're losing as much as it may feel on the F8X stock cooling.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by NYG

I don't think 15F is worth the upgrade, especially at that price. Pretty sure if you take your engine cover off you'll get 10F lower temps.

Do you have fuel trim and timing logs for that session? I don't think you're losing as much as it may feel on the F8X stock cooling.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ba...90c60748a0b07a

Here is a log, it pulls almost all the timing out by the end of the session. Paul did like 4 revisions for me on Friday.

My guess this is 450-460 wheel Hp. Hopefully soon I will dyno slot 1 and 2 with 9%E all the way up to E60. Slot 1 is the road course.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by sly1types

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ba...90c60748a0b07a

Here is a log, it pulls almost all the timing out by the end of the session. Paul did like 4 revisions for me on Friday.

My guess this is 450-460 wheel Hp. Hopefully soon I will dyno slot 1 and 2 with 9%E all the way up to E60. Slot 1 is the road course.

Whoever is tuning your car probably knows A WHOLE lot more than me but your engine looks healthy af from those logs.

At Lambda = 12 and max. boost, you're advanced. You pull minimal timing between gear changes when you're still in boost. It looks consistent throughout the entire session.

Boost pressures are consistent, IAT is pretty stable too.

Your short term trims are always converging at 1 which is weird but that's probably BM3 working and it probably uses a different label.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by NYG

Whoever is tuning your car probably knows A WHOLE lot more than me but your engine looks healthy af from those logs.

At Lambda = 12 and max. boost, you're advanced. You pull minimal timing between gear changes when you're still in boost. It looks consistent throughout the entire session.

Boost pressures are consistent, IAT is pretty stable too.

Your short term trims are always converging at 1 which is weird but that's probably BM3 working and it probably uses a different label.

Its Paul Johnson F80Paul, he defiantly knows his stuff, he also said he worked to keep the EGTs low. I have some logs from the mornings where it starts out and keeps a lot more timing. Right now I'm only putting about 3 cars on a E92M3 down the front straight, its 50-125mph, but in the morning i can hit 129-131mph.

I was just hoping someone with full Wagner setup would chime in and say it was a 20deg reductionbut by the amount of people that have looked at this thread and not chimed in i think these are more of a vanity mod.

[TopJimmy]

Sly,
I run the Wagner TMIC but a stock FMIC. I did not test against my stock TMIC. My intakes are stock boxes with BMC. During runs my IAT drops 15F and recover to start temps afterwards. I'm not sure if that's all Ram Air effect or if the TMIC helps any.

I did notice that the Wagner is so big it's hard to heat it up. After a few drag passes, or a bunch of highway playing, it stays cool to the touch on hot days. Only after 5-6 repeated dragstrip runs did it feel warm to my hand (and silicone CPs were Hot).
-TJ

[SYT_Shadow]

As far as I'm concerned, the only TMIC that does something is the 4k fancy Bimmerworld one.
If I ever have to upgrade mine, that's what I'll get. Until then it's staying stock.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Intake-F...hoCljQQAvD_BwE

[sly1types]

I ended up getting the Wagner Top mount, nice unit, significantly larger. I have a track event it 2 weeks and I will be doing some data logging.

It was so big I wasn't sure my hood was going to close

[JustAnothaM4]

Do these larger top mounts have any clearance issues with the oem GTS/CS hood?

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by Project M4GTS

Do these larger top mounts have any clearance issues with the oem GTS/CS hood?

They might, in the instructions it says on the M2c you have trim some of the inner hood metal.

[sly1types]

I just finished the first day of a 3 day track event and in 90-95deg heat.my IATS stayed under 130 in a 20min session . So that's a solid 10deg improvement over stock, it also looks it recovers quicker

[JustJames]

Not bad for just the top mount. How did the rest of the weekend go?

[sly1types]

The ambient was about the same, low-mid 90s. My logs are avg low-mid 120s. Sometimes it peaks with a 130 after the straight. I think it’s lower or higher some laps due to traffic/clean air. It the morning sessions it would stay under 110.

I would say it’s definitely worth the money for track guys, maybe not for street guys.

I’m running about 22-23lbs on a custom flex track tune by F80paul and I was running about E50.

Here is Saturday afternoon log https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6121...90c62f11a3d73a

[JustJames]

Awesome, thanks for the info

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by Project M4GTS

Do these larger top mounts have any clearance issues with the oem GTS/CS hood?

I heard that Wagner bumps the M shaped supports under the CF hoods. Not sure…

[sly1types]

Just did another 3 day track event. in the mornings it was mid-high teens and in the afternoon when is was 95 it would stay around 125ish. I was on E50-E60 and it kept my timing

[biofluke]

Bump.

Anymore feedback on this sly1types?

Im still running a 93 octane road course tune from F80Paul due to poor availability of E85 near me. My IATs creep up to 154f on some tighter more technical tracks (like limerock).

I am leaning towards the full Wagner setup and/or Mishimoto this winter to get ready for next season.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by biofluke

Bump.

Anymore feedback on this sly1types?

Im still running a 93 octane road course tune from F80Paul due to poor availability of E85 near me. My IATs creep up to 154f on some tighter more technical tracks (like limerock).

I am leaning towards the full Wagner setup and/or Mishimoto this winter to get ready for next season.

About the same. As it got cooler they stay in the teens.

I would recommend it. I don't usually track it without some mix of ethanol 30-60%. Next year there might be a few out of town events without ethanol though.

I will eventually do the Mishimoto heat exchanger.