Coby Wheel
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-29-2021, 08:21 AM   #1
WarMachineM3
Second Lieutenant
WarMachineM3's Avatar
United_States
54
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2021
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

MPerformance HAS vs Bilstein B16/ Ohlins

I've read several posts on this site about coilovers vs HAS. I narrowed it down to the M performance HAS and Bilstein B16 damptonic coilovers (or Ohlins). I do plan on keeping this car for a long time and would like to have a really good suspension set-up for daily (80%) and track/ twisties (20-30%) use. I've read post from a member who had coilovers (Bilsteins?) and then switched to the MP HAS and wished he would've chosen the MP HAS first and saved money. On the other hand, I've read many members say that the Bilstein's were a little stiff and/ or were a great daily and track coilover that retained damper control which the HAS also provides. Could someone chime in who might have experience with one or the other, or even both? Also, what other suspension parts would you recommend installing for a more complete set-up rather than coilovers or springs alone? I'm coming from a 2020 STi (stock), and now have a 2017 M3 ZCP.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2021, 01:17 AM   #2
hellokitty
Brigadier General
hellokitty's Avatar
United_States
2884
Rep
3,719
Posts

Drives: '17 M3 ZCP DCT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (2)

The B16s are definitely on the stiff side (500/800 spring rates). However it is still pretty comfortable on comfort mode. Comfort on the B16 feels like between sport and sport plus on stock suspension.
__________________
2017 F80 M3 ZCP / AA GESI DPs / Akrapovic Evo / BBS FI-R 19" / Bend Calibration ECUTEK Flex Fuel | Bilstein B16 DDC + CS EDC / BMC Filters / BMS OCC / CSF HE / ESS CP / Nitto NT555R2 / PD Crank Hub / SPL Suspension / Uniden R7 / Wagner Top Mount IC

2021 Mini GP3 / BMC Filters / BM3 / Cary Jordan E30 / Wagner IC / Remus Race
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2021, 06:22 AM   #3
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I would opt for the MP-HAS. It was tuned by BMW themeselves and offers a great balance of improved handling without much sacrifice in ride comfort. The stock EDC suspension works very well with street tires and mild R-compound tires. It does however tend to get overwhelmed with more aggressive track tires. So unless you plan on tracking your car regularly with very aggressive track rubber, the MP-HAS offers an excellent compromise between daily practicality and performance, which is what the M3/4 is all about to start with .
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 1
      05-30-2021, 08:24 AM   #4
irunalot
Captain
United_States
1516
Rep
818
Posts

Drives: Porsche Carrera S
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

I went from MP-HAS to Bilstein B16D to MCS 3 ways in 5 months. They are all different and it all comes down to what you want and what you expect. I plan on writing post on why I moved through all of these suspensions and how they differ when I have a free moment this weekend.

What's your past experience with suspensions and what did you like and not like about each. Your intended purpose and experience plays a factor here. What are your thoughts on how the stock suspension feels? Both daily driving and spirited driving ?
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2021, 08:56 AM   #5
WarMachineM3
Second Lieutenant
WarMachineM3's Avatar
United_States
54
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2021
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I would opt for the MP-HAS. It was tuned by BMW themeselves and offers a great balance of improved handling without much sacrifice in ride comfort. The stock EDC suspension works very well with street tires and mild R-compound tires. It does however tend to get overwhelmed with more aggressive track tires. So unless you plan on tracking your car regularly with very aggressive track rubber, the MP-HAS offers an excellent compromise between daily practicality and performance, which is what the M3/4 is all about to start with .
I see. I remember reading your little review on them. Are Michelin PS4 aggressive track tires. I was planning on getting 295/30/20 for the rear while being lowered with a conservative drop. I do like the price and reviews so far on the MP HAS.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2021, 09:14 AM   #6
WarMachineM3
Second Lieutenant
WarMachineM3's Avatar
United_States
54
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2021
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
I went from MP-HAS to Bilstein B16D to MCS 3 ways in 5 months. They are all different and it all comes down to what you want and what you expect. I plan on writing post on why I moved through all of these suspensions and how they differ when I have a free moment this weekend.

What's your past experience with suspensions and what did you like and not like about each. Your intended purpose and experience plays a factor here. What are your thoughts on how the stock suspension feels? Both daily driving and spirited driving ?

Whoa. I'd be glad to read your experience. I'm looking for comfort for DD, and have it sporty when for spirited driving and maybe the track (haven't been to the track, but plan on going one day). I thought about Bilstein's, but I hate hitting pot holes with the ZCP wheels on stock suspension, especially on sport/ plus. Some say coilovers are good for the long term, while springs can cause wear sooner on the OEM springs, but I don't know about that. I feel MP HAS offer an oem solution to that and engineered it to mate with the sotck suspension, especially the ZCP. They both seem to offer similar experience, except that the Bilstein's are able to be pushed harder, but I really don't know, maybe the MP HAS can offer that same performance on the track, even being HAS. What are your thoughts on that? B16 with damptronic is about $1,000 more, but is it worth it? Thanks. Also, I've always had stock suspension on all my cars.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2021, 09:25 AM   #7
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePOWER85 View Post
I see. I remember reading your little review on them. Are Michelin PS4 aggressive track tires. I was planning on getting 295/30/20 for the rear while being lowered with a conservative drop. I do like the price and reviews so far on the MP HAS.
I’d say the PS4S is a mild performance street tire, far from a track tire. There are more aggressive street tires than the PS4S.

When I say mild track tire, I mean PSC2, NT01, R888R or PZ Trofeo-R for example. Agressive track tires are Hoosiers, R1 or actual racing slicks.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 1
      05-30-2021, 09:31 AM   #8
hellokitty
Brigadier General
hellokitty's Avatar
United_States
2884
Rep
3,719
Posts

Drives: '17 M3 ZCP DCT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePOWER85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
I went from MP-HAS to Bilstein B16D to MCS 3 ways in 5 months. They are all different and it all comes down to what you want and what you expect. I plan on writing post on why I moved through all of these suspensions and how they differ when I have a free moment this weekend.

What's your past experience with suspensions and what did you like and not like about each. Your intended purpose and experience plays a factor here. What are your thoughts on how the stock suspension feels? Both daily driving and spirited driving ?

Whoa. I'd be glad to read your experience. I'm looking for comfort for DD, and have it sporty when for spirited driving and maybe the track (haven't been to the track, but plan on going one day). I thought about Bilstein's, but I hate hitting pot holes with the ZCP wheels on stock suspension, especially on sport/ plus. Some say coilovers are good for the long term, while springs can cause wear sooner on the OEM springs, but I don't know about that. I feel MP HAS offer an oem solution to that and engineered it to mate with the sotck suspension, especially the ZCP. They both seem to offer similar experience, except that the Bilstein's are able to be pushed harder, but I really don't know, maybe the MP HAS can offer that same performance on the track, even being HAS. What are your thoughts on that? B16 with damptronic is about $1,000 more, but is it worth it? Thanks. Also, I've always had stock suspension on all my cars.
I would try to find someone who has the Bilsteins installed and go out for a ride to assess your comfort tolerance. If the Bilsteins are only $1k more than MP HAS then yes, that extra money is well spent provided you can live with a stiffer suspension.
__________________
2017 F80 M3 ZCP / AA GESI DPs / Akrapovic Evo / BBS FI-R 19" / Bend Calibration ECUTEK Flex Fuel | Bilstein B16 DDC + CS EDC / BMC Filters / BMS OCC / CSF HE / ESS CP / Nitto NT555R2 / PD Crank Hub / SPL Suspension / Uniden R7 / Wagner Top Mount IC

2021 Mini GP3 / BMC Filters / BM3 / Cary Jordan E30 / Wagner IC / Remus Race
Appreciate 2
      05-30-2021, 01:06 PM   #9
irunalot
Captain
United_States
1516
Rep
818
Posts

Drives: Porsche Carrera S
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Please excuse typos and punctuation as I'm using my phone and won't be at a PC for a bit. I bought my 18 F80 ZCP 6Spd with 18k miles from a dealer. While waiting for it to be shipped to me I had the MP-HAS installed. I did have it lowered a bit as that's a prerequisite on any car for me personally. Not slammed but lowered around 20mm. Overall the car felt ok but my biggest issue was the high speed rebound where the car felt like it was floating and a bit disconnected over dips and imperfections in which the suspension compressed and quickly rebounded. Is it enough to send you off the road, no but it's also not confidence inspiring. It just didn't feel predictable and planted under all circumstances. Is it good, yes it is just not what I was looking for.

So I did a little bit of research between B16Ds and KW DDC. Both use the the factory EDC system and I at the time I wanted to keep it. I decided to go with B16Ds as they were the higher performance option of the two, at least from what I gathered. I had them installed, the ride height set to the same as the MP-HAS and also corner balanced. I also had GC camber plates installed as well. Overall this was a major upgrade in handling as well as predictably and I was almost happy. I was annoyed by the fact that no matter what EDC settings it was in something was always off. For example to much high speed compression not enough rebound,  not enough low speed compression etc. The more I drove it the more I found things I was not happy with. After some more time the issues I had were the progressive rate springs and constantly hitting bump stops. The damper performance when the spring rate changes from the main rate to the secondary rate was not something I enjoyed. It wasn't floaty as before but I felt as I was driving a lowered car with mismatched springs and dampers. If you stay in the main rate you are fine, once you get into the secondary rate or bump stops the rebound becomes a problem. If you are going to lower the car more then 20mm this may not be the best way to go. Do what you can to stay away from the internal bump stops and second rate. One option is to replace the springs with linear springs. That will help but your still limited by the bump stops if you want to lower the car. I even contacted Bilstein about this. They very rudely told me this is a performance suspension raise your car. Ummm that what I'm after performance, that was my last straw with Bilstein.

That's just me personally, I've driven very well setup track cars and I'm spoiled when it comes to suspension. To that point a well set up track suspension feels good on a track or the street. Not all tracks are smooth i.e. Sebring. By no means and I saying I'm fast enough to take any of these suspensions to there absolute limit in every condition, but I can tell the difference at 5/10s. You can have your cake and eat it too but it will cost you. I do understand the engineering strength of BMW, Porsche etc., but factory suspension is all a compromise in performance due to varying customers(track guys to daily commuters that last drove a minivan) but also in budget. I tried to stick to factory for three cars and ended up with motorsport grade suspension. There is no substitute.

If factory suspension is something your pretty happy with MP-HAS is good but Bilstein feels better controlled. They both have compromises just keep that in mind. With the Bilsteins be cognizant of how much you lower the car due to the secondary rate and bump stops. They are stiffer in compression but a bit more confidence inspiring. That's just my take and it's a very personal and expensive decision so choose carefully.
Appreciate 3
      06-01-2021, 03:49 PM   #10
harjot.hans
Enlisted Member
11
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

For B16D you need to experiment to find out what works.
There is no Daily Drive/Track setting.
You have to adjust EDC and Height to get the best of both worlds.
Below configs are easy and you'll enjoy.

Daily Driver:
Keep it slightly lower than stock (~5-10mm) and use CS EDC settings.
The modes will work appropriately and you will have a car that can handle and goto the grocery store!

Track:
Put it on Base EDC Settings and lower to desired level of feel.
You won't experience much difference in modes, but just throw it in Sport Plus and enjoy the track.

**Review based on 2015 M4**
Appreciate 1
      06-03-2021, 07:25 AM   #11
WarMachineM3
Second Lieutenant
WarMachineM3's Avatar
United_States
54
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2021
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I would try to find someone who has the Bilsteins installed and go out for a ride to assess your comfort tolerance. If the Bilsteins are only $1k more than MP HAS then yes, that extra money is well spent provided you can live with a stiffer suspension.
Sounds about right. I actually don't mind having the MP HAS kit, but I'd think my mind would rest on having coilovers, but one member said the MP HAS kit were better than the B16 to him. So, I think it boils down to preference. If I had money I'd choose MCS or or Tractive with EDC.
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2021, 12:58 AM   #12
M 4 FUN
Captain
593
Rep
634
Posts

Drives: BMW 320 Si, BMW M4 comp. BMW M
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Personally i would not run an EDC damper in the first place but that's me. I would not pay such money and still not be able to fine tune my damper settings. You can't even change the front/rear individually. I run Öhlins with revised springrates on my M4. It takes me one minute to change damper settings all round. I have over 20 damper settings to choose from instead of three and if i want to track the car it's a quick adjustment.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST