SSOTT

[GrussGott]

This chick has ovaries of steel

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by minn19

I never meshed with my F8X cars on the track and faster isn't always more fun for me anyway. For example my wifes GLI, (I can't believe I got talked into buying another VW) and a friends Focus STs, GTI and many other cars I've driven now on/off the track were/are way more fun to drive than any of my F8X cars ever were. I know many have had great success and love driving their F8Xs on tracks, but for me (even my CS and comp model) were way to twitchy for me both under acceleration and braking. They all had a mushy brake pedal feel that I always hated as well. Plus the competition brings many more traction control modes to bear. For the F8X it is either nothing or a far to intrusive MDM mode. I did a track day in my ZL1 1LE during a monsoon and I couldn't believe how good the wet mode was. Its competition settings are nuts/fun. And that is a car with 650/650. Same with Ford's systems on their GT350/500 etc.

As for on the road DD, I was really bored with my F8X cars, especially the DCT ones. The HK stereo in all of my BMWs borderline sucked and again a 30k GLI kicks the shit out of a 80k M car or M550 for that matter. The Audi stereo was also much better along with comfort and cabin fit/finish IMO. I just looked at 70k M340 at my local dealer and they still don't have ventilated seats (30k GLI has them) and probably still have a shitty HK stereo. I really don't like BMWs current inverted or whatever they did with the digital RPM/speedometer. iDrive is still the king though for infotainment.

You could be right about the Euro delivery. The CS is the only M car I had that didn't have a ton of squeaks or rattles. I do hope you streak continues.

Edit: The M550 was vault solid to.

Wait are you driving a ZL1 1LE now? Thats on my short list for my next weekend car. I have to assume visibility aside you prefer it to the GT350?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Arcades

minn19 GrussGott

I do understand why people love the E9x generation but I never have been one of those... "V8 bruh!" people nor am I overly attached to the need of a stick or the absolute feeling of hydraulics. I prefer a good mix of both electronics and DCT while keeping to it's past as much as possible when it comes to driving dynamics. I do personally prefer the brute feel from the F80's torque than the V8.

My kinda stick with Audi interiors is the screen, same with Benz but I hate Benz's shifter which is now just your stock. I do not like that attached at your face look. Never did. Didn't like it when Benz started doing it, didn't like it when I saw it in Audi, didn't like any other companies doing this because it just looked as an afterthought. BMW's way of integrating it into the dash is a far better look and I wished more companies did this. The redeeming quality of Audi interior for me has always been the shifter. I love the fact that they kept it as an actual shifter unlike so many switching to freaken buttons or some weird looking little rectangle (Porsche...)

I know companies can't please enthusiasts, that is why they don't really try to. They shouldn't anyway because we, for the most part, rarely put our money where our mouths are. Everyone says they want BMW to make a M Wagon but most won't ever get one. I can guarantee you on that. The same reason why Audi's RS6 won't sell well because it is above the price of what most people would want to pay for the car. Not to mention Audi, again has the pricing problem. Benz has had a AMG Wagon option for a while now and everyone seemly overlooks it or forgets the fact that they have one available. Granted you probably need to order it due to it's limited availability but you can get it.

RS6 shares the same interior layout and design as the Taycan. The new Panamera is very similar but sliiightly different. All three cars are full of screens and it's annoying as hell. Especially since it's black plastic all over the place. A friend of mine showed me her 2019 Panny and I immediately found a few things annoying about it. Of course, I am a fast learner so it generally won't end up being a problem but I just don't like that I have to get used to it. For example for some reason Porsche makes pushing the Panamera into reverse a bit of a chore. Instead of just a regular push up with a button held down like... most every other company does, Porsche makes you push up HARD on the little annoying rectangle shifter to put the car into reverse. I... don't know why but it's not a good feel.

Enthusiastic at the end of the day are picky. We have certain specifics we like in a car and prefer to have it that way. This is why we are extremely hard to please. While I can drive anything with 4 wheels like my father taught me, but I have my own preferences and if I had it my way, generally that is how I would personally buy/lease cars. Hence why I choose Macan GTS over the X3M Comp. Like those of us who prefer the E9x cars for it's specific reasons, the reason why I choose the GTS over X3M is the same.

Benz is definitely the older grandpa car in my eyes too. Not as bad as Caddy or Lincoln but almost as bad. I do like the AMG GTs, not so much the front end being so long. AMG GT cars aren't being up sold like all hell unlike Porsche's GT cars. Even my friends at the Porsche dealership has admitted to this. They don't like it but they have to due to the Porsche's economics.

Lups By the way. A lot of people in the States are whining about everything too so you aren't not the only one.

To be honest however, I'd be safe and just not make them go anywhere.

The new Caddys coming out look to be badass. I would take one in a heartbeat if price were no obstacle.

Like Minn and GG I never really connected with the F8x and honestly Im already feeling it in the G70 I just got. Wondering if I made a mistake but luckily I got such a good deal I could get out of it unscathed. Tho I am pretty sure if I had gotten the M340i and/or I waited for the new G80 my feelings would be the same. i just don't feel connected to the road when I drive these new cars.

At least I made it a couple days this time. I was over my M4 comp before I even got it home from the dealer. I owned it 5 months and took a $5k bath to get rid of it even after my smoking deal. I couldn't stand that car.

I had it and a GT350 ordered at the same time to replace my F80 and chose the M4 because they gave me 15% off. In hindsight they would have both been bad financial decisions but I probably would have enjoyed the GT350 more. Good reasoning to never let a few grand shape my decisions again.

V8, rwd, manual, and hydraulic steering are the key ingredients to a great drivers car IMNHO. I wish they still made cars like they used to... #oldwhiteman

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Wait are you driving a ZL1 1LE now? Thats on my short list for my next weekend car. I have to assume visibility aside you prefer it to the GT350?

Yup, it makes awesome linear power everywhere and I love the Recaros. It also hasn't turned into a POS like both GT350s did early on. After 9k miles that included one track day plus a ton of hooning around, it has only used about two quarts of oil. The built in suspension adjustability is awesome so it doesn't push/understeer as bad as the GT350 did in corners. The visibility does suck, but I'm used to it and blind spot monitoring makes it a non issue for me while commuting. The DSSV setup makes the M4 Comp feel like a Caddy though. I'm used to it, but you need to avoid potholes/manhole covers etc because it runs out of trouble very quickly.

I just might keep a performance car for more than year finally!
I honestly can't think of what I'd replace it with without spending 130k up. I've always wanted a manual 911 GTS and I'm not sure I'd trade the ZLE for it.

Edit: Forgot, I can turn rev match on/off with the flick of a paddle. Novel idea, looking at you BMW........

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

The new Caddys coming out look to be badass. I would take one in a heartbeat if price were no obstacle.

Like Minn and GG I never really connected with the F8x and honestly Im already feeling it in the G70 I just got. Wondering if I made a mistake but luckily I got such a good deal I could get out of it unscathed. Tho I am pretty sure if I had gotten the M340i and/or I waited for the new G80 my feelings would be the same. i just don't feel connected to the road when I drive these new cars.

At least I made it a couple days this time. I was over my M4 comp before I even got it home from the dealer. I owned it 5 months and took a $5k bath to get rid of it even after my smoking deal. I couldn't stand that car.

I had it and a GT350 ordered at the same time to replace my F80 and chose the M4 because they gave me 15% off. In hindsight they would have both been bad financial decisions but I probably would have enjoyed the GT350 more. Good reasoning to never let a few grand shape my decisions again.

V8, rwd, manual, and hydraulic steering are the key ingredients to a great drivers car IMNHO. I wish they still made cars like they used to... #oldwhiteman

Originally Posted by minn19

Yup, it makes awesome linear power everywhere and I love the Recaros. It also hasn't turned into a POS like both GT350s did early on. After 9k miles that included one track day plus a ton of hooning around, it has only used about two quarts of oil. The built in suspension adjustability is awesome so it doesn't push/understeer as bad as the GT350 did in corners. The visibility does suck, but I'm used to it and blind spot monitoring makes it a non issue for me while commuting. The DSSV setup makes the M4 Comp feel like a Caddy though. I'm used to it, but you need to avoid potholes/manhole covers etc because it runs out of trouble very quickly.

I just might keep a performance car for more than year finally!
I honestly can't think of what I'd replace it with without spending 130k up. I've always wanted a manual 911 GTS and I'm not sure I'd trade the ZLE for it.

Edit: Forgot, I can turn rev match on/off with the flick of a paddle. Novel idea, looking at you BMW........

I would point out that I am the youngest here. Most of my car friend circle that isn't Justin at AutoTalent, have more or less the same feeling when it comes to cars as I do.

Not the V8 type or hydraulic steering. I would probably also point out that, at this point it's probably impossible to have old hydraulic steering. Since there isn't a reason for any companies to really do so. It is sightly ironic that my mother does prefer this too. Steering wise I mean as she has driven older style cars longer than me.

I despise the new shifter style Porsche is using. That annoying rectangle they are using is SOO bad I hope they do not stick to this. I should have grabbed a 2019 Chalk GTS when I had the chance in place of my Medio M3 I think but... I would have had regrets either way.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I would point out that I am the youngest here. Most of my car friend circle that isn't Justin at AutoTalent, have more or less the same feeling when it comes to cars as I do.

Not the V8 type or hydraulic steering. I would probably also point out that, at this point it's probably impossible to have old hydraulic steering. Since there isn't a reason for any companies to really do so. It is sightly ironic that my mother does prefer this too. Steering wise I mean as she has driven older style cars longer than me.

I despise the new shifter style Porsche is using. That annoying rectangle they are using is SOO bad I hope they do not stick to this. I should have grabbed a 2019 Chalk GTS when I had the chance in place of my Medio M3 I think but... I would have had regrets either way.

I think you guys are more worried about playing car dress up and straight line speed than driving dynamics. I know Justin is!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

V8, rwd, manual, and hydraulic steering are the key ingredients to a great drivers car IMNHO. I wish they still made cars like they used to... #oldwhiteman

Originally Posted by minn19

After 9k miles that included one track day plus a ton of hooning around, it has only used about two quarts of oil. The built in suspension adjustability is awesome ... I honestly can't think of what I'd replace it with without spending 130k up. I've always wanted a manual 911 GTS and I'm not sure I'd trade the ZLE for it.

So this kinda gets to the heart of a hard truth:

The last ///M track car was the e9x. The F8x was designed to be a mini-M5; it *can* put down great numbers on a track, but it's made to be a luxury GT and you can easily get kid's seats in the back and take a nice road trip. (my all time favorite M4 bitch/moan was the guy who complained that his kids were asleep in the back, but sweating because the a/c wasn't strong enough back there)

The ZL1 1LE, on the other hand, is built from the ground-up to be a track weapon. You *can* put kid seats in it, but should you? Probably not. Some states might consider it child abuse. Children in back will probably get traumatic brain injuries, but I'm not a medical scientist.

The only thing BMW makes that comes close to the ZL1 is maybe the M2 Comp, but I'd probably still take the ZL1 if I wanted a track car. And that's the hard truth: the M3/4 has become a cool looking top-of-range sedan ...

The M3/4 starting with the F8x is a 3-series sport option package.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I think you guys are more worried about playing car dress up and straight line speed than driving dynamics. I know Justin is!

For me I can say I'm not a track guy, road courses only ... which I used to do weekly, then last summer monthly, this year since March never

That's ok, though, as we're winding down our Cali lifestyle anyway, but still kinda sad.

I will say this, though, due to some auto work I'm having done, I'm driving a Chevy Equinox - I'm not familiar with all of the Chevy models but I'm pretty sure it's not as fast as the ZL1 ... even so, it feels faster off the line than my M4! That's always the way with the road cars vs the performance cars.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I think you guys are more worried about playing car dress up and straight line speed than driving dynamics. I know Justin is!

Not really.

Part of it is of course, but when you get a car below 4 seconds 0 - 60, there isn't that much more really to do with the car.

Suspension wise BMW, at least recently, has not done a good job at all. Rebound is either very floaty or overly hardened for no reason. They don't seem to be able to get the balance needed. I found KW's solution to the problem better. You don't find it weird people constantly complain recent Ms are either too stiff or too floaty on rebound? Yet, Porsche seems to always get it right somehow without upsetting every one in the process?

Straight line speed doesn't have a lot of meaning when you are in any of the performance cars that would give you a speeding ticket in less 5 seconds. If I care a LOT about going veeerry fast in a straight line, I would be into dragsters, which I am not. It's even worse with domestic cars as they are as much of a brute force style as you can get. Ask yourself, do you really need a Hellcat w/ 700+ HP? or even a ZLE 1LE that is designed to DO a certain thing even though most buyers wouldn't ever do so.

It is the same thing for every performance car at this price range. Regardless of which brand you are speaking of. Good majority of buyers won't track their cars. Whether it is the CS, GTS, GT. Some cars do need some mods before some hardcore tracking, which is the case for the M cars (that isn't CS/GTS). Minn owned two that I know of that are outright track ready in the GT350 and the ZLE.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Not really.

Part of it is of course, but when you get a car below 4 seconds 0 - 60, there isn't that much more really to do with the car.

Suspension wise BMW, at least recently, has not done a good job at all. Rebound is either very floaty or overly hardened for no reason. They don't seem to be able to get the balance needed. I found KW's solution to the problem better. You don't find it weird people constantly complain recent Ms are either too stiff or too floaty on rebound? Yet, Porsche seems to always get it right somehow without upsetting every one in the process?

Straight line speed doesn't have a lot of meaning when you are in any of the performance cars that would give you a speeding ticket in less 5 seconds. If I care a LOT about going veeerry fast in a straight line, I would be into dragsters, which I am not. It's even worse with domestic cars as they are as much of a brute force style as you can get. Ask yourself, do you really need a Hellcat w/ 700+ HP? or even a ZLE 1LE that is designed to DO a certain thing even though most buyers wouldn't ever do so.

It is the same thing for every performance car at this price range. Regardless of which brand you are speaking of. Good majority of buyers won't track their cars. Whether it is the CS, GTS, GT. Some cars do need some mods before some hardcore tracking, which is the case for the M cars (that isn't CS/GTS). Minn owned two that I know of that are outright track ready in the GT350 and the ZLE.

I am pretty sure you are subconsciously arguing for e9x over f8x here. Welcome to the club! 😂

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Not really.

Part of it is of course, but when you get a car below 4 seconds 0 - 60, there isn't that much more really to do with the car.

Suspension wise BMW, at least recently, has not done a good job at all. Rebound is either very floaty or overly hardened for no reason. They don't seem to be able to get the balance needed. I found KW's solution to the problem better. You don't find it weird people constantly complain recent Ms are either too stiff or too floaty on rebound? Yet, Porsche seems to always get it right somehow without upsetting every one in the process?

Straight line speed doesn't have a lot of meaning when you are in any of the performance cars that would give you a speeding ticket in less 5 seconds. If I care a LOT about going veeerry fast in a straight line, I would be into dragsters, which I am not. It's even worse with domestic cars as they are as much of a brute force style as you can get. Ask yourself, do you really need a Hellcat w/ 700+ HP? or even a ZLE 1LE that is designed to DO a certain thing even though most buyers wouldn't ever do so.

It is the same thing for every performance car at this price range. Regardless of which brand you are speaking of. Good majority of buyers won't track their cars. Whether it is the CS, GTS, GT. Some cars do need some mods before some hardcore tracking, which is the case for the M cars (that isn't CS/GTS). Minn owned two that I know of that are outright track ready in the GT350 and the ZLE.

Even the GT350 and ZL1 1LE benefit from some suspension tweeks from aftermarket. Mainly do to cost cutting/cheap stamped parts that deflect easily and in the GT350s case it needed some stiffening and lowering. But, they were/are much better out of the box than M 3/4s, especially in the suspension department as you mentioned. That's my thing with BMW, their stock suspensions aren't great for the road or great for the track and that is kind of the car in a nutshell for me. Too many compromises for my taste everywhere. The biggest thing that pissed me off about the M3/4 cars was the stock steel brake setup. You either need to go aftermarket for a proper steel BBK or the ridiculously priced CCB option with ridiculous replacement costs and the DD negatives that come with a setup like that.

I'm sure it is a generational/cultural thing to. I grew up with 'Merican muscle, but strangely always liked the BMWs and other imports and still do. I was never interested in them until they could turn and actually started building world class chassis in the current GT350s and Camaros. It should be embarrassing to BMW that a 40k SS 1LE will hang with or consistently beat a M3/4 comp around a track driver for driver of course. And GM offers better options than BMW as well. BMW has turned into Apple IMO with you get what you get and you can't change it without it being a monstrous pain in the ass. The manual transmission rev match being a great example of that. GM, you can turn it on/off easily no matter what traction or drive mode you are in. BMW, nope you can only have it on in this mode and off in this mode because we say so.

I still like many different cars. I stand by the GTI/GLI lineup and even cars like the Focus ST/RS and Honda Type R are way more fun to drive than anything BMW build right now except maybe an M2. For me that is and remains the biggest problem and it isn't changing. That's why I tried the traditional US brands. One experiment failed spectacularly and the second is going great. Hence with so many choices, I have no reason to buy/lease BMWs anymore. Especially after buying/leasing 10 of them over 5 years with many of them being M cars and faux M ones. BMW NA gave me the finger for the most part with my CS suspension/brake issues. I asked them to trade assist me in to a manual M2C and I'm not kidding, literally laughed at me. So fuck you to BMW, I'll spend my cash elsewhere. Had they done that we'd probably still have two, but for sure one in the garage and consider them for other choices.

I agree with you the Porsche PDK USB shifter stick thing is really bizarre.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

So this kinda gets to the heart of a hard truth:

The last ///M track car was the e9x. The F8x was designed to be a mini-M5; it *can* put down great numbers on a track, but it's made to be a luxury GT and you can easily get kid's seats in the back and take a nice road trip. (my all time favorite M4 bitch/moan was the guy who complained that his kids were asleep in the back, but sweating because the a/c wasn't strong enough back there)

The ZL1 1LE, on the other hand, is built from the ground-up to be a track weapon. You *can* put kid seats in it, but should you? Probably not. Some states might consider it child abuse. Children in back will probably get traumatic brain injuries, but I'm not a medical scientist.

The only thing BMW makes that comes close to the ZL1 is maybe the M2 Comp, but I'd probably still take the ZL1 if I wanted a track car. And that's the hard truth: the M3/4 has become a cool looking top-of-range sedan ...

The M3/4 starting with the F8x is a 3-series sport option package.

Funny you mention that, my kid loves the ZLE, just not on long rides because it does make her car sick. We had her bday party where we had to drive her and her friends to many events. All of the kids wanted to ride in Camaro over the Jetta. Gotta love our red neck country kids.

[Lups]

The school trip is cancelled!

I'm not even very hysterical about covid, the only difference now that schools are open still to our family is that I spend a few hours here and there studying swedish, yet another language I've forgotten. What does piss me off is that I did the shopping for 6 old people all spring and some summer and soon again, and these fucking idiots are seriously trying to argue a stupid science museum is a must.

Anyway. Done. Now I can have the energy to start fighting the hubby on the car front again.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Lups

The school trip is cancelled!

I'm not even very hysterical about covid, the only difference now that schools are open still to our family is that I spend a few hours here and there studying swedish, yet another language I've forgotten. What does piss me off is that I did the shopping for 6 old people all spring and some summer and soon again, and these fucking idiots are seriously trying to argue a stupid science museum is a must.

Anyway. Done. Now I can have the energy to start fighting the hubby on the car front again.

Is he wanting an Audi, or a Volvo?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Is he wanting an Audi, or a Volvo?

An alfa romeo. The ultimate fuck you since he doesn't drive.

[Lups]

Minnie how's the doggie?

I seriously want one again too (yeah, yeah, we have one but...) but this damn virus spreading which means soon again home schooling the litter and I still have to work for money too and then there is the tiny house project still going on, I'm completely fucked for time and if I won't find an owl mix puppy, I'd have no time to train one properly. Dogs don't mind the hours, but socializing them at 3 am is hard.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Lups

Minnie how's the doggie?

I seriously want one again too (yeah, yeah, we have one but...) but this damn virus spreading which means soon again home schooling the litter and I still have to work for money too and then there is the tiny house project still going on, I'm completely fucked for time and if I won't find an owl mix puppy, I'd have no time to train one properly. Dogs don't mind the hours, but socializing them at 3 am is hard.

She is doing really good! Just over two years old and obviously a big part of the fam now. When I get a chance I'll post a couple of pics you guys might like.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by minn19

She is doing really good! Just over two years old and obviously a big part of the fam now. When I get a chance I'll post a couple of pics you guys might like.

Hell yeah, mate!

And I seriously need a dog again. This thing with the damn idiot sucks.

Let it be known Rabies Alfonso is trained very well. I just can't take his needy ways or him being so needy with me. He's the only dog now so it is apparent he needs company.

But seriously, I want a dog. I want covid to be over, and I want the hubby to stop trying to grow a beard. He can't do it.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Lups

An alfa romeo. The ultimate fuck you since he doesn't drive.

Yeah, you have to find out what kind of car the loaner car is. You'd be using it a lot!

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Yeah, you have to find out what kind of car the loaner car is. You'd be using it a lot!

I was unpacking the shit I packed up before we moved to the usa a few days ago and found a pile of my old travel diaries. The urge to hit the road again hit hard. Of course now a road trip is not a possibility but I asked my eldest if she wants to go with me after this covid is done. She very kindly declined, told me she has read the diaries and she will never apparently travel with me further than the closest supermarket.

Yeah, he has tried absolutely everything to get me to buy a car. We've been through Volvo brochures, walks towards a Toyota dealership, hell, he once made me clean up the garage even. Nothing has worked, but reading those old diaries did make my right foot itch. Now there only is the small matter of finding a car, preferably before he loses his mind completely and gets an AR. Those, as you said are so reliable I probably would end up falling in love with it and then I'd be stuck with it in ditches till the end of time.

But seriously. If I make through this autumn alive, the older son has his surgeries and vaccines are distributed, I'm going to go for a tiny spin again. Asia is beginning to sound more and more appealing each time I see a map.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Lups

Asia is beginning to sound more and more appealing each time I see a map.

Thailand! You'd definitely be popular there.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Thailand! You'd definitely be popular there.

Lol, I could drive through russia to get there!

At least one of the kids is coming with me, and she said she is picking the car, sadly the only car she's ever liked is a citroen 2cv, those are as fast as snails and even beats the ARs in reliability.

So yeah Thailand is a bit optimistic. Let's see if we make it around a block.