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      11-18-2019, 03:30 PM   #1
Gomeler
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The M4 GTS belongs on the track

Finally managed to get a morning of lapping in after ~4 months of ownership, and completely confirmed I made the right decision going with the GTS instead of a M2C. The GTS is an absolute riot on the track.

A few observations:
  • Bring Gas: averaged 6.2MPG, fuel starved after ~57 miles. This was intentional due to the alignment concerns.
  • Get Camber Plates: my front alignment was flawed, -1.4* due to the strut brace limiting the camber plate movement, going back with the explicit instructions to remove the brace during alignment. My home track eats left front tires, and even overbraking by 10-15mph in the high-speed right corners I definitely started chewing up the LF shoulder in ~60 minutes.
  • Bring Water: the water injection tank level alert started chiming before I ran out of gas. Super annoying/distracting when the car chimes at you every corner for your last 2 laps.
  • Turn off DSC: MDM was useful for the first session or two to familiarize myself with the car's behavior and to sort out tire pressures, but I dropped from 2:08.xx to 2:03.xx simply turning off DSC. Max positive toe(~0.13*) helped keep the throttle oversteer in check, but you could happily drift this thing around every corner if you wanted.
  • CCBs pedal feel leaves something to be desired: felt very unpredictable, but that might be a seat-time thing. They sure do stop quick, and zero fade issues. Front tires overheated/spiked in pressure before the brakes.
  • Get harnesses: I hate that USDM GTS' didn't get the European seats. I'm confident I'll drop ~2-3 seconds with a harness. Trail braking is a nightmare sliding in the seat, and several corners I'd struggle mid-corner to start throttling-out because of the lateral Gs.
  • Sport+ throttle is perfect: It is borderline unusable on the street, but it is absolutely perfect for medium/high speed tracks. I was in 3rd -> 5th gear, and the throttle sensitivity was perfect for trying to throttle steer the car a bit towards the end.

On the street the GTS feels kind of like a muscle car, because you can't safely exercise its capabilities in the corners. On the track it is still a bit like a missile trying to straighten out corners to bury the throttle, but it is definitely capable of holding its own with momentum lines through corners. Related, there was a guy flogging an E39 M5, it was awesome watching him sling that boat through the corners and try to put his power down.

My car is now in storage until January due to my home track being closed for winter break. I'll update my post about camber settings once I get out to the track again with a correct alignment + pyrometer + have more than 1 tank of gas.

Obligatory track-day photo. This was after the first session, pulled the front splitter out for sessions 2 and 3.
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      11-18-2019, 03:50 PM   #2
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Awesome, glad you got it out before winter.

All of your feedback is spot on. Sport+ throttle, MDM, water + gas consumption (about 1:1 on track), need for plates, seat & harness.

You got the brakes plenty hot? Only unpredictability Iíve experienced is before theyíre in temperature range volcanic.

I only got 1 day in with my seat + 6 pt before end of season. Ups the enjoyment factor leaps and bounds. Car is way too fast for a standard seat.

Everything about this car that annoys casuals and doesnít seem to make sense during street use (e.g., sport plus throttle) makes for a killer track experience.
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      11-18-2019, 06:42 PM   #3
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      11-18-2019, 07:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Awesome, glad you got it out before winter.

All of your feedback is spot on. Sport+ throttle, MDM, water + gas consumption (about 1:1 on track), need for plates, seat & harness.

You got the brakes plenty hot? Only unpredictability I’ve experienced is before they’re in temperature range volcanic.

I only got 1 day in with my seat + 6 pt before end of season. Ups the enjoyment factor leaps and bounds. Car is way too fast for a standard seat.

Everything about this car that annoys casuals and doesn’t seem to make sense during street use (e.g., sport plus throttle) makes for a killer track experience.
It's possible I wasn't getting rotors hot enough, I was basically doing 1 warmup lap, 3.5 at-pace laps, 0.5 cooldown lap, hot pits to adjust pressures, then 3-4 more at-pace laps to the end of the ~25 minute session. I think regardless I'll be going to a set of iron rotors, ~60 miles on track was enough to convince me that this should be the car I focus on for 2020, and I don't fancy burning through a set of CCBs halfway through summer.

I know a bucket + harness was a huge improvement in control in my STI, most importantly when the car wanted to get away from me. Going to see if I can get some brackets to transplant the seats before my next lapping day. I think the checklist is now 1: correct alignment 2: transplant seats 3: M2C rotors or AP Racing 4: toe links. We'll see how much I can knock out before ~January.
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      11-18-2019, 07:39 PM   #5
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Also, I wasn't running an OBDII adapter, but the car never got above the 215F range or so per the oil temp gauge. Temps were in the lower 50s, so that helps, but really nice having a factory car that doesn't overheat after a few spirited laps
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      11-18-2019, 08:42 PM   #6
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Temp doesn't budge after 20+ mins in 80-90 degree ambient. Like I've said before, pop the hood post-session and it's cool as a cucumber in there. It's weird.

Tires are the weak point from a thermal standpoint. (Probably need slicks...)

Run the CCB through ~1/2 the front pads, then swap. Won't hurt.

I have an ongoing exchange with Rebrake.de on CCB refurbishment btw. No red flags so far. Will update other thread with full info once I have.

VAC motorsports for maybe easiest route to race seat install https://store.vacmotorsports.com/rac...f8x-p3809.aspx

Yes on the improved control. Mostly though I enjoyed not bruising my left knee on the door and death gripping the wheel to stay put.
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      11-18-2019, 11:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Temp doesn't budge after 20+ mins in 80-90 degree ambient. Like I've said before, pop the hood post-session and it's cool as a cucumber in there. It's weird.

Tires are the weak point from a thermal standpoint. (Probably need slicks...)

Run the CCB through ~1/2 the front pads, then swap. Won't hurt.

I have an ongoing exchange with Rebrake.de on CCB refurbishment btw. No red flags so far. Will update other thread with full info once I have.

VAC motorsports for maybe easiest route to race seat install https://store.vacmotorsports.com/rac...f8x-p3809.aspx

Yes on the improved control. Mostly though I enjoyed not bruising my left knee on the door and death gripping the wheel to stay put.
Just a note on VAC floor mounts, I just installed some recaro seats in my GTS and they are really low. I didnt use a slider but I figure a recaro slider is about and inch to inch and a half tall, and with the seat as high as it can be, its still really low.
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      11-19-2019, 07:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Just a note on VAC floor mounts, I just installed some recaro seats in my GTS and they are really low. I didnt use a slider but I figure a recaro slider is about and inch to inch and a half tall, and with the seat as high as it can be, its still really low.
Which side mount? I have a Recaro slider + side mount. Not in the top setting, feel like I'm slightly lower than where I ran the stock seat.

Believe the VAC side mounts have notably more adjustability than Recaro -- up, down & left, right.
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      11-19-2019, 11:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Temp doesn't budge after 20+ mins in 80-90 degree ambient. Like I've said before, pop the hood post-session and it's cool as a cucumber in there. It's weird.

Tires are the weak point from a thermal standpoint. (Probably need slicks...)

Run the CCB through ~1/2 the front pads, then swap. Won't hurt.

I have an ongoing exchange with Rebrake.de on CCB refurbishment btw. No red flags so far. Will update other thread with full info once I have.

VAC motorsports for maybe easiest route to race seat install https://store.vacmotorsports.com/rac...f8x-p3809.aspx

Yes on the improved control. Mostly though I enjoyed not bruising my left knee on the door and death gripping the wheel to stay put.
I'll be curious to see how your CCB refurbishment goes. Might be a workable option depending on final cost + resulting endurance.

Tires are definitely the limiting factor. I'm on the original set that shipped with this car, once I burn them down I'm either trying out RE71Rs or NT01s. Will be curious to see how tire temps go as I get more comfortable carrying momentum. I was overbraking heavily to keep corners safe, which was probably murder on the fronts.

We'll see how the seat mounting goes, I need to inventory what I've got that could work for the F82. I need to swap another engine into my STI(story of this car's life), so the GTS is in storage for the next 6-8 weeks to coincide with the track being closed.
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      11-19-2019, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Just a note on VAC floor mounts, I just installed some recaro seats in my GTS and they are really low. I didnt use a slider but I figure a recaro slider is about and inch to inch and a half tall, and with the seat as high as it can be, its still really low.
Which side mount? I have a Recaro slider + side mount. Not in the top setting, feel like I'm slightly lower than where I ran the stock seat.

Believe the VAC side mounts have notably more adjustability than Recaro -- up, down & left, right.
I have Recaro 2700g's in my car that have a bespoke mount by Recaro. The VAC did have a ton of adjustability to get the seat centered and at the correct distance from the wheel. I was merely giving a heads up that the VAC mounts have a lot of trial and error to get right. I'm glad your set up worked out like you wanted. 👍. If you can use them for your application, though, I think the BK stuff is much more plug and play to get the seat in as well as the 6 point belts set up.
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      11-20-2019, 08:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I was merely giving a heads up that the VAC mounts have a lot of trial and error to get right. I'm glad your set up worked out like you wanted. ��. If you can use them for your application, though, I think the BK stuff is much more plug and play to get the seat in as well as the 6 point belts set up.
Oh, I couldn't agree more on the trial and error. took me 2 months of parts exchanges with vendors, 1/2 dozen trips to Ace Hardware, missed track days. To top it off I walked into the front of the slider rail barefoot on my stock seat and took a fricking chunk out of my toe for a permanent scar... Other than that, the process was peachy!

What I learned is that any race seat install other than factory is likely to involve some compromises, plenty of trial and error.

BK stuff? I'm all ears on plug and play solutions for the future. thanks
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      11-20-2019, 12:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I was merely giving a heads up that the VAC mounts have a lot of trial and error to get right. I'm glad your set up worked out like you wanted. ��. If you can use them for your application, though, I think the BK stuff is much more plug and play to get the seat in as well as the 6 point belts set up.
Oh, I couldn't agree more on the trial and error. took me 2 months of parts exchanges with vendors, 1/2 dozen trips to Ace Hardware, missed track days. To top it off I walked into the front of the slider rail barefoot on my stock seat and took a fricking chunk out of my toe for a permanent scar... Other than that, the process was peachy!

What I learned is that any race seat install other than factory is likely to involve some compromises, plenty of trial and error.

BK stuff? I'm all ears on plug and play solutions for the future. thanks
BK, Brey Krause.
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      12-11-2019, 08:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Just a note on VAC floor mounts, I just installed some recaro seats in my GTS and they are really low. I didnt use a slider but I figure a recaro slider is about and inch to inch and a half tall, and with the seat as high as it can be, its still really low.
Not sure how tall you are, but having the seat as low as you are comfortable with is a good thing. Gives you a lower center of gravity and moves you head away from the roof. Seems awkward at first, but lower is better!
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      12-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
BK, Brey Krause.
This, for sure.

I've been down the road of Recaro sliders and Macht Schnell hardware. What a bunch of shit. I still have that crap in the basement as I haven't had the courage to sell it to a fellow M owner

BK is the way to go. They allow you to reuse OEM sliders which are on a different planet than any other sliders as well as maintain the 3 point and 6 point functionality.
I have had their goodies on my E92 and E90. When I got the CS I didn't even look elsewhere, I just directly bought their stuff and couldn't be happier.

Gomeler I remember your thread asking for advice. Glad to see you went for the GTS, it is insanely cheap for what it is. Make sure to get the camber plates, etc.

You may also benefit from a 10.5 et40 square setup in 19" that clears your CCB and allows you to run massive tires like the 295 hoosiers. Or a wide set of RE71s while you get up to speed.

The cooling capabilities of the F8X M are truly exceptional
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      12-11-2019, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
BK is the way to go. They allow you to reuse OEM sliders which are on a different planet than any other sliders as well as maintain the 3 point and 6 point functionality.
I have had their goodies on my E92 and E90. When I got the CS I didn't even look elsewhere, I just directly bought their stuff and couldn't be happier.
+1. Thinking about making the jump from my frankenstein setup. After my experience, some BK direct to floor mounts, lap belt clips and anti-sub mount look too good to be true.
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      12-11-2019, 11:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
+1. Thinking about making the jump from my frankenstein setup. After my experience, some BK direct to floor mounts, lap belt clips and anti-sub mount look too good to be true.
I haven't seen anything else close to the BK setup. They really build some good stuff
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      12-11-2019, 12:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Just a note on VAC floor mounts, I just installed some recaro seats in my GTS and they are really low. I didnt use a slider but I figure a recaro slider is about and inch to inch and a half tall, and with the seat as high as it can be, its still really low.
Not sure how tall you are, but having the seat as low as you are comfortable with is a good thing. Gives you a lower center of gravity and moves you head away from the roof. Seems awkward at first, but lower is better!
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
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      12-11-2019, 01:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
Hello,

That seat belt buckle location is not safe. Itís supposed to be inside of the bolster. Could result in submarining
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      12-11-2019, 01:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
Hello,

That seat belt buckle location is not safe. It's supposed to be inside of the bolster. Could result in submarining
This has been extensively covered in other forums. Yes, it's not ideal, but has been used as an oe solution by countless manufacturers, including bmw. If having the buckle inside the bolster is your concern then you should cross bucket seats off your list of modifications.
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      12-11-2019, 01:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
Hello,

That seat belt buckle location is not safe. It's supposed to be inside of the bolster. Could result in submarining
This has been extensively covered in other forums. Yes, it's not ideal, but has been used as an oe solution by countless manufacturers, including bmw. If having the buckle inside the bolster is your concern then you should cross bucket seats off your list of modifications.
OEM BMW is inside the bolster. And yes I agree with you most buckets aren't safe for 3 pt., but these are good
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      12-11-2019, 01:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
Hello,

That seat belt buckle location is not safe. It's supposed to be inside of the bolster. Could result in submarining
This has been extensively covered in other forums. Yes, it's not ideal, but has been used as an oe solution by countless manufacturers, including bmw. If having the buckle inside the bolster is your concern then you should cross bucket seats off your list of modifications.
OEM BMW is inside the booster. And yes I agree with you list buckets aren't safe, but these are good
Agreed, now anyone over 5'7" run a six point harness in that seat and let me know how badly you destroy your collar bone in an impact. Those are based off a pole position and the shoulder belt holes are hilariously low.
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      12-11-2019, 01:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBMWfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
I'm 6 feet and I was looking up out of the car. My eye line was about level with the top of the door. I like a low seat but that was aggressive.

I installed a weird seat too, so I can't use the Bk stuff. Different bolt patterns.
Hello,

That seat belt buckle location is not safe. It's supposed to be inside of the bolster. Could result in submarining
This has been extensively covered in other forums. Yes, it's not ideal, but has been used as an oe solution by countless manufacturers, including bmw. If having the buckle inside the bolster is your concern then you should cross bucket seats off your list of modifications.
OEM BMW is inside the bolster. And yes I agree with you most buckets aren't safe for 3 pt., but these are good
OE CGT seats.
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