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      09-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
If this engine is rated as conservatively as all the other BMW petrol turbo engines have been, it is going to be one hellacious power plant.

There has been a lot of speculation as to why BMW is publishing such conservative numbers. It reminds me of about 30 years ago when no manufacturer would publish a horsepower spec over 300 for fear the insurance companies would spank them.
Most likely to compensate for the oulying scenarios. For example, people in places with different altitude than most. Or places that only have 91 octane like California instead of 93 like everyone else
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      09-23-2013, 01:03 PM   #46
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Looking forward to more details on the car. I'm happy with the power number, mostly the tq. As for tunes, I don't think right now that's valid to bring up because watch BMW come out with something like Audi's TD1 codes where they void your powertrain warranty if any tune is detected and people start getting hit with huge repair bills unrelated to tunes. I've seen it happen first hand with Audi's. Also it will be a decent amount of time before anyone has the resources to start toying with these to make a tune.
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      09-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #47
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Will be tough to get that boosted HP and not deal with heat issues and performance consistency given what's already happening with FI M-cars. With exception of guys who track them, for most prob won't matter. But agree that around an 8.0 lbs/hp doesn't look as interesting as some of the earlier speculation (around 7.6-7.7) and makes a trade up to the new model a little less compelling on the margin (however, the more I see the F80 M3 sedan looks wise, the more I like it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
80-100hp from a "simple tune" will not happen. BMW is starting with a low displacement motor to begin with and is taking much more effort in preventing significant power from aftermarket tuners. Just look at the n55 motor vs the n54. And look at the new M5/M6.
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      09-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_SID View Post
I am ok with the HP number but I was hoping for a little more tq. Hopefully those numbers are conservative. That being said, this is going to be crazy with a tune!!!
I actually am happy that it's the opposite. more torque relative to the HP would mean that it would either have a lower redline or the torque would fall off a cliff.

we know that torque will decline as RPMs go up, because if they don't, that would indicate that the engine reaches peak power (the 425 hp) at 6,032 RPMs. much more likely is that the torque will slowly fall and continue to drive peak HP up. someone smarter than I could plot the slope of that line with better speculation.
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      09-23-2013, 01:05 PM   #49
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Cannot wait for ours.
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      09-23-2013, 01:06 PM   #50
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Given the size of the motor and the current p˘wer levels I doubt we will see huge numbers from just a flash
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      09-23-2013, 01:06 PM   #51
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Lets give them credit. They know where MBZ will be with the next C63, as well as Audi with the RS5. They'll be well prepared. At the end of the day, the power figures only mean so much. It's the performance, and the driving experience that will matter. I'd much rather it have "only" 425 HP, but have great steering feel and precision, and controlled body movement, which are more BMW M hallmarks than max HP is.
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      09-23-2013, 01:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The C7 Corvette is 3300lbs. For the "basic" M3/M4 to hit that it will require a massive amount of aluminum and CF in the chassis. And a massive increase in base price.

I can see the same ~100lbs reduction as in the F30/F32 but not 300lbs in the "regular" model, though.
+1
E90/92 weighs around 3700lbs and to reduce that to 3300lbs is wishful thinking. More realistic is around 3500lbs IMO
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      09-23-2013, 01:10 PM   #53
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In the end, I have enough confidence in BMW M to say that I would/will probably buy the thing sight-unseen. BMW M has knows what the industry and its competitors are doing. The good thing about BMW is they have been the trend setters and benchmark of the industry rather than chasing other brands. There has not been a bad M3 yet and I dont anticipate then they would allow the launch of the M4 to deviate from this perfect record.
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      09-23-2013, 01:10 PM   #54
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Think about insurance more horsepower higher insurance cost hp could be higher in reality than on paper.
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      09-23-2013, 01:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny_World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedez View Post
Ouch I dreamed at least 450...
It's ok, just add a tune when they come out and you'll be over it
When US 335i owners said that we were criticized, now cause its an M3 adding a tune is ok. Smh
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      09-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
Thanks for the info. I'm withholding judgement until I see a dyno graph and a curb weight figure.
Agreed...

Have not been a fan of their turbo motors even to this day in any form.

The e9x m3 was supposed to be lighter too, and its not. Im assuming they mean a base car with no options will be lighter than a fully loaded e9x m3. Im sure theres some type of semantic approach to that claim.
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      09-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
Funny how in 2012 after a lot of thought YOU decided to buy a $70k car with an engine produces 414 bhp, all of the sudden 425bhp in a better lighter engine with more torque "its a joke" i see bitter e9x M3 owners at its finest display here...

But i understand you, your 2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black is now obsolete, a new comer its stealing all the limelight and you just realized you're taking a big hit on resale value once the new car hits the streets, i understand your jealousy i just don't approve it
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG3356MT View Post
When US 335i owners said that we were criticized, now cause its an M3 adding a tune is ok. Smh
You tend to see this a lot when new models come out to replace those that were beloved...there was a similar reaction when the E9X came out from E46 owners...similar on a smaller scale with the M235 and 1M owners...

At some point, many of the naysayers now will be lining up with their money later.
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      09-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #58
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Torque is what makes driving fun in the real world, at least in the US! Just have to shift at lower revs to keep it in the peak torque range. I had an E92 M3 and then a Z4 35is, and the Z was more fun in real world driving, in spite of the clear advantage the M3 had in braking, balance and handling in general. Some seem to forget we are not driving at Road Atlanta every day! This car should be a blast!
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      09-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #59
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425 hp is allright, personaly me, never thoutght it's gonna be more than this, another thing is torque.
But at the end of the day the most important thing for me is, how it drives,how it sounds,and how involving it's gonna be.
i really hope that bmw will make redline 8000rpm,cause it's one of the things i miss now in my 335,steering is also very important,turbo lag and throttle response aswell.

Must admitt that sound of m5/m6 is a mistake, M3/M4 must sound unique!!!

And what concerns hp and tq numbers, i don't worry at all,cause having a turbo engine it's much easier to extract power!!!
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      09-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The C7 Corvette is 3300lbs. For the "basic" M3/M4 to hit that it will require a massive amount of aluminum and CF in the chassis. And a massive increase in base price.

I can see the same ~100lbs reduction as in the F30/F32 but not 300lbs in the "regular" model, though.
3300 lbs makes no sense given the size of this car.

No possible way this car weighs what a 911 or vette weighs. I mean, even a 458 italia is 3400-3500 lbs. I dont see a the M3/4 being anwhere within 150 lbs of this weight. As I said in my previous post, there is probably some kind of semantic approach to that (i.e. no options). The f30 335 is ~35XX lbs, and the M3/4 will get more beefed up components to add weight and likely add more than they save.

My pure guess, 3600-3650 fully loaded.

Last edited by Wolfinwolfsclothing; 09-23-2013 at 01:38 PM..
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      09-23-2013, 01:36 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
Yes they do, but with M Cars only, you own an Z4
That is incorrect. Non M cars with the N54 also had underrated HP levels.
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      09-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #62
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Lets the week begin
Thanks a lot Jason for your updates
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      09-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #63
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Jason thanks

slightly nervous that BMW might have undercooked the car if thats the case but as with everything don't judge it until you've driven it.
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      09-23-2013, 01:49 PM   #64
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Add a tune and you'll be up another 80hp for less than $1k.
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      09-23-2013, 01:51 PM   #65
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One piece of the puzzle in place, thanks Jason. Will reserve judgement until we have weight and other necessary figures to complete the performance picture.
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      09-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #66
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The Porsche C2S has 395hp and weighs ~1400kg Unladen. The F8X has 425hp and is rumoured to be ~1500kg Unladen. I don't expect performance to be an issue.

It will likely be very,very fast and spank the E9X M3 as well as the M5/M6 thouroughly on a track. It remains to be seen how exciting it is.
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