Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Now, that's how you launch a car , the boss drifting the car on stage

Looking at the current trend of GTS models across all model range, I am willing to bet 992 GTS is going to have a naturally aspirated 3.8~4.0L flat 6, potentially with a detuned GT3 engine. Very much looking forward to one.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Articulating differences in approach and the target audience is NOT defense. It's articulating those differences. Just because I, too, like certain Porsche's doesn't mean I am unable to recognize the differences between the way the two companies are run.

Furthermore, you're taking other statements made by me out of context because I responded to specific things people posted.

The difference in approach is due to M drifting/drifted away from its motorsport image, content and product.

Blinkered-ly stubborn despite showing you clearly that the interest of P and M enthusiasts are the same. Just look at yourself below showing that P and M enthusiasts' interest is the same.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's too much of a price chasm between the two offerings. I wouldn't say most seriously cross shop; maybe theoretically because it's fun. I would gladly agree that some do however.

I mean, if everybody in here driving F8X's crossed shopped the equivalent pinnacle P-Car offering and decided not to buy it despite being able to afford it, I might look at them sideways. After all, everybody rants and raves about making the jump. If you can afford one, why are you in a BMW rather than the Porsche? That was rhetorical.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Looking at the current trend of GTS models across all model range, I am willing to bet 992 GTS is going to have a naturally aspirated 3.8~4.0L flat 6, potentially with a detuned GT3 engine. Very much looking forward to one.

I'm guessing it is the same type of engine you'll see from the previous 991.2 GT3 engine (retuned or updated) or a derivative of the 4.0 Flat Six you see from the current 718 GT4/Spyder.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Looking at the current trend of GTS models across all model range, I am willing to bet 992 GTS is going to have a naturally aspirated 3.8~4.0L flat 6, potentially with a detuned GT3 engine. Very much looking forward to one.

I had the same thought when they released the 918 GTS, where the 992 GTS could follow in the same footsteps. However, there's one caveat in the 992 lineup: the GT3 Touring.

[FormulaMMM]

Pro-G8X crowd knows on some level it’s a half ass deal, but there are reasons and excuses for the lameness – pricing, for example.

A nice suburban home separates the 992 GT3 and Pista, 765LT, AMG GT Black, Aventador SVJ. Doesn’t stop Porsche from delivering the maximum to their loyal customer base, besting competition, progressing beyond expectations.

992 GT3 might cost 2x as much as a G8X, but M sold >2x as many F80 M3’s (just the F80) as Porsche sold 991.1 & .2 GT3’s.

One man’s $80k is another’s $160k. Ludicrous to suggest that G8X shortcomings are justified by a paltry price point. Spending $70k-90k on an M warrants the absolute best that the division can deliver for the money. The very best exterior design, brakes, transmission, lightweighting efforts, release content, lap times, everything.

Especially on the heels of their enthusiast audience giving them the most successful M3/M4 generation in history (correct me if I'm wrong).

Expecting the G8X to match a 992 GT3 in objective track performance is unreasonable. Expecting M to approximate GT division’s enthusiasm and fastidiousness, loyalty to its customer base and principles, is not.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Especially on the heels of their enthusiast audience giving them the most successful M3/M4 generation in history (correct me if I'm wrong).

The F8X?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

The F8X?

Right. Believe F80 tripled E90 sales https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=23945730

Don't know M4 data.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's too much of a price chasm between the two offerings. I wouldn't say most seriously cross shop; maybe theoretically because it's fun. I would gladly agree that some do however.

I mean, if everybody in here driving F8X's crossed shopped the equivalent pinnacle P-Car offering and decided not to buy it despite being able to afford it, I might look at them sideways. After all, everybody rants and raves about making the jump. If you can afford one, why are you in a BMW rather than the Porsche? That was rhetorical.

Things are not that black or white. I've been able to "afford" a 911 for quite some time already but have specifically chosen to stick with ///M. I've previously found that the performance/driving engagement gap was not sufficient enough to justify the set back in practicality and price. The paper specs of the G8X combined with the Marketing campaign (because that is all we have to go with at present time) have pushed me over the edge. Too much of a change in philosophy to appeal to me, so I decided to jump ship and explore what the 911 has to offer.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Pro-G8X crowd knows on some level it’s a half ass deal, but there are reasons and excuses for the lameness – pricing, for example.

A nice suburban home separates the 992 GT3 and Pista, 765LT, AMG GT Black, Aventador SVJ. Doesn’t stop Porsche from delivering the maximum to their loyal customer base, besting competition, progressing beyond expectations.

992 GT3 might cost 2x as much as a G8X, but M sold >2x as many F80 M3’s (just the F80) as Porsche sold 991.1 & .2 GT3’s.

One man’s $80k is another’s $160k. Ludicrous to suggest that G8X shortcomings are justified by a paltry price point. Spending $70k-90k on an M warrants the absolute best that the division can deliver for the money. The very best exterior design, brakes, transmission, lightweighting efforts, release content, lap times, everything.

Especially on the heels of their enthusiast audience giving them the most successful M3/M4 generation in history (correct me if I'm wrong).

Expecting the G8X to match a 992 GT3 in objective track performance is unreasonable. Expecting M to approximate GT division’s enthusiasm and fastidiousness, loyalty to its customer base and principles, is not.

Not everywhere though, the price for the G8X went up significantly here in Canada. A reasonably optioned G82 M4competition (how I would spec it) added up to more than what I paid for my M4cs. I guess we were lucky in Canada, where the price of the M3/4 had not followed inflation, up until now.

Base price of my cars:

• 73k CAD 2001 E46
• 71k CAD 2008 E92
• 73k CAD 2015 F82
• 85k CAD 2021 G82

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Especially on the heels of their enthusiast audience giving them the most successful M3/M4 generation in history (correct me if I'm wrong).

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

The F8X?

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Right. Believe F80 tripled E90 sales https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=23945730

Don't know M4 data.

I think you're right on F80 vs. E90 sales, but remember that the E90 M3 was introduced and sold through the greatest financial collapse since the great depression. Not exactly an environment for a sales surge. The F80, however, benefitted from a lot of younger buyers starting to get decent jobs as it headed into peak production. It was also a total knock-your-socks-off performer when it came out at IIRC just over $60k base price in summer of 2014.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Things are not that black or white. I've been able to "afford" a 911 for quite some time already but have specifically chosen to stick with ///M. I've previously found that the performance/driving engagement gap was not sufficient enough to justify the set back in practicality and price. The paper specs of the G8X combined with the Marketing campaign (because that is all we have to go with at present time) have pushed me over the edge. Too much of a change in philosophy to appeal to me, so I decided to jump ship and explore what the 911 has to offer.

...and that is perfectly okay. In fact, your reasoning is something I've already mentioned in multiple posts.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

It was also a total knock-your-socks-off performer when it came out at IIRC just over $60k base price in summer of 2014.

Yes it was. Charted a course for ongoing success with the F8X then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

You may be right on the macroeconomic factors, but my point is, there's no reason to believe an F8X evolution wouldn't have been equally or more successful than the previous gen, which was a high water mark for sales.

Sweet road trip, by the way.

[pbar]

Interesting quote from the Car & Driver article on the 911 GT3 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-gt3-revealed/

The standard seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission carries over from the prior GT3, saving 40 pounds compared to the eight-speed unit in other 992-generation 911s. It also replaces the 911's nubby gear selector with a more conventional-looking lever that allows for manual gear selection (there are shift paddles as well).

This is the tradeoff you make when you design a car for purists who want to be involved in driving it... you realize that having more gears for fuel efficiency numbers makes it awful to shift under driver input and is (often) pointless extra weight.

[deeldoo]

Originally Posted by pbar

Interesting quote from the Car & Driver article on the 911 GT3 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-gt3-revealed/

This is the tradeoff you make when you design a car for purists who want to be involved in driving it... you realize that having more gears for fuel efficiency numbers makes it awful to shift under driver input and is (often) pointless extra weight.

Yup, this is what a sensible car constructor does.

It can do whatever it wants to save money and cut cost with the other 99% of it's fleet.

But your purist, motorsport division flagship has to be done right even at the expense of profits. This is what everyone looks at.

No one, not even the most layman, look at BMW and go omg that 330i is so insane i am going to put a poster up on my wall and buy another 15 over my lifetime.

What actually happens is you put up a poster of that GT3 as a kid, you grow up, unable to afford a GT3 so you buy 6 911's, 4 caymans, 3 macans, and at the ripe age of 65 you finally get your GT3.

This is how you sell cars, you sell a vision, you sell your best even if that best isn't profitable now, because people dream of your best car, even if they don't quite ever attain it.

If your best is the G8X pig nose, it isn't ending up on someone's wall, if the G8X is your best i sure as hell am not going to go for your 35k base model.

It seems like losing an enthusiast community isn't a big deal, like what does it comprise of? 10% of your target population?

But what people fail to understand is that even your regular market is largely influenced by what the best you can produce is. If journalists are spewing that the G8X is garbage or ugly, and your non purist target market looks at that youtube video, what do you think is going to happen?

They definitely don't want to be the laughing stock, they will pick another brand.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Looking at the current trend of GTS models across all model range, I am willing to bet 992 GTS is going to have a naturally aspirated 3.8~4.0L flat 6, potentially with a detuned GT3 engine. Very much looking forward to one.

This is unlikely to happen but would be cool to get NA GTS or T 911.
Also the 4.0 Engine in Cayman GTS and GT4 is unrelated to the 4.0 engine in the GT3 which is pretty much engine from their motorsports cars while the 4.0 in Cayman is based on the 3.0 turbo.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Articulating differences in approach and the target audience is NOT defense. It's articulating those differences. Just because I, too, like certain Porsche's doesn't mean I am unable to recognize the differences between the way the two companies are run.

Furthermore, you're taking other statements made by me out of context because I responded to specific things people posted.

BMW used to make AMAZING cars that ppl aspired to own - original 8series, E46 M3, E39 M5, then the crazy V10 M5 and M6, V8 M3 etc. These cars were praised across the board for styling, performance and most of all the driving experience unmatched by any other automakers.
Now BMW is lost and trying to be a car for all instead of focusing on what made them great.

I have had 6 new BMWs since 2008 and currently own 2 now. I been to M school, bought BMW accessories and Mperf parts. I promoted the brand to friends, family etc. There are many like me who “lived” the brand and put our $$$ into what we thought was a great company.

For them to now do a 180 and say this M thing is BS and play some music video at M3 launch is embarrassing! This forum banning longtime members is really in fathomable to me.

The product always speaks for itself and in this case its so bad that damage control is needed against the most loyal supporters of the BMW M brand.

[jrkal2]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

My god... what is that image from?

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by jrkal2

My god... what is that image from?

That is supposed to make you want to buy the new iX. I don't love my Tesla but that isn't going to make me get into an iX instead lol.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by jrkal2

My god... what is that image from?

Who's gonna break it to him??

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Who's gonna break it to him??

Really, there is only one way to sum up the new marketing direction from BMW:

What the F@#&?!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jrkal2

My god... what is that image from?

A BMW video I posted earlier in the thread...

[R N M]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Who's gonna break it to him??

The sad part is that is not worst of the marketing videos 😂