12-28-2013, 01:58 AM | #67 |
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Op I agree with what you're saying about m cars being a bargain when compare to the more prestigious automaker but if we all truly were looking for value or bargain we wouldn't be here.
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12-28-2013, 08:11 AM | #68 |
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Some people own both Ferraris and M3's because they do very different things very well, and the smiles are different sizes for different prices. I agree with the "I think it's worth the price" post. Funny how opinion forums can sometimes become lecterns.
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12-29-2013, 01:45 AM | #69 |
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Value???? Are you kidding, any performance car depreciates in value FASTER than other "normal" cars. Maybe I'm mis-reading what you are stating.
Go look at a minivan, Toyota Camry/Corolla or Accord....now those cars hold their value well
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12-29-2013, 04:45 AM | #71 | |
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I bought a Subaru Impreza GTTurbo AWD back in '99, 218PS, 5.9s 0-62mph and a great entertainer, it could 'devastate' a former E39 540i/Audi A8 on the Autobahn as well and I could keep up with some 911s... It was about 22k euros.(50k Dutch florins) and a 328i E46 was already double the price of that. Talking about real bargains. And a GT3/458 never is and was a bargain, neither is an M6. Totally different cars, a bit like comparing the Impreza GTT to a 911...at the end of the day you always want the latter. The only problem is the pricetag... I'm happy with the value(..) of my 1M though. Cheers Robin |
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12-29-2013, 05:26 AM | #72 |
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I used to kind of think like OP until I drove a Panamera 4S, it really sparked something, first time I got that similar to sex feeling while driving, changed my whole perception about cars. Also working valet few years ago helped a lot even if I only got to drive cars about 400 yards at most I drove just about everything out there and that really helped my perspective of cars, never judge a car until you drive it.
As for the Ferrari comments: I had the opportunity to take a gallardo LP-560 for a spin and no numbers or words could describe that experience and the way it made me feel (I was shaking when I got out of the car lol) point is: super cars are in a different league than other cars and yes I would pay >$200K for one. O.P: i suggest checking out www.relayrides.com to see if anyone has a 911(or any outher car you are interested in) for rent in your area and rent it for a day or weekend, I rented a 996 carerra for my bday weekend for 280$ and had the time of my life!!
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12-29-2013, 11:13 AM | #73 | |
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12-29-2013, 11:35 AM | #74 | ||
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12-29-2013, 02:52 PM | #75 | |
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12-29-2013, 05:08 PM | #76 | |
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With that said, if it's a track car you're looking for, I wouldn't be so sure about the CTS-V being better than the new M4 (although we won't really know how the M4 performs on track for several more months). I'm sure it can put some fast laps down, but it doesn't make a great choice of track car for the same reason the M5 isn't a better option for a track car: weight. At 4250 lbs, the CTS-V will run through consumables (pads, tires) like nobody's business. Even my E92 M3 at 3550 lbs is pushing the boundaries of acceptability (at least with my wallet). My next car needs to be lighter... |
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12-29-2013, 06:03 PM | #77 | ||||||||
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But in any case, that wasn't the point of my thread...I was really pointing to BMW's MSRP's being much more reasonable than what porsche, ferrari, Jaguar (high end performance and luxury brands) charge for their cars. Quote:
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Did the car cost that much at sale? If it is an exclusive special edition, that would probably factor into the sell price going up. Regardless, if your car is actually worth that much now, that would prove my point. $200k for a used special edition 997 is ridiculous. And the only reason the used price is able to jump that high is because the car was overpriced to begin with. Quote:
You definitely misinterpreted my point. I wasn't arguing that BMW's resale value was better than that of other car makers, though on average it is actually pretty decent. I was arguing that the MSRP, the value at which you buy a new car , is very good when compared to the other high-end euro car brands. Last edited by Patronus86; 12-29-2013 at 06:18 PM.. Reason: Typo's |
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12-29-2013, 06:17 PM | #78 |
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The m3 race cars are carbon monocoque chassis with a 6 speed xtrac tranny and a P66 motor that shares nothing with the production car. The only M3 that was homologated for racing was the first M3. The 997 GT3 is the homologated race car for the road. Same engine chassis, etc. only swap is the fuel cell and 6 speed replaced by a dog box tranny. Also, i think your logic is wrong. When a car is sold for much higher prices used, it was under priced from the dealer not over priced. My 997.2 RS was $136k. A car that appreciates? that's a value for the customer. The F10 is a 2013 residuals are 49% after 3 years. Ugh
The only car that BMW has that competes with Porsche's GT3 in desirability is the 1M. Used prices reflect it. I'm still kicking myself for not going for one when I had the chance |
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12-29-2013, 06:59 PM | #79 | ||
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But there is also a significant difference between the street legal gt3 rs and the gt3 cup car (which is not street legal) used in the professional racing. This article from bloomberg doesn't go into as much detail on specific parts, but there is easily a $100k difference between the 2 porsches. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...et-review.html Read the section on 'Number Crunching.' Every time they drive these things, the techs and engineers are fiddling with the suspension. It costs $3,000 per hour to operate. If you think they simply take a 911 gt3 rs and simply swap the fuel cell and transmission and race them on the pro circuit, you are kidding yourself. Quote:
And for the 2nd time, that wasn't the type of value I was referring to in my original thread. I was arguing that porche's MSRP (brand new) was too high for the performance, quality, exotic feel,ect. that you were getting. Yes, the 1M is unique as hell, but that thing doesn't compete nearly as well with the gt3 in terms of performance. The M3 is much more comparable performance wise, let's leave exclusivity and model rarity out of the discussion. |
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12-29-2013, 07:13 PM | #80 |
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The 991 GT3 and RS are diverging from the pure racing varieties (Cup, RSR, America) even more this generation. At least until or if, Porsche homologates the DFI 9A1 motor and finally replaces the GT1 block Mezger.
I will say, having driven both 997 GT3RS and 997 GT3 Cup on the track, they look alike but are very, very different driving experiences...really not even close if I'm being honest. |
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12-29-2013, 07:15 PM | #81 | |||
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12-29-2013, 07:42 PM | #82 |
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agreed with the rest of your post except this. a 997.2 3.8 RS is worth closer to 140k-160k. Not $200k+. People can ask w.e price they want, but what it is worth is totally different.
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12-29-2013, 07:45 PM | #83 | |||
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The M brand being diluted...well they still race versions of the M3 on the pro circuit. And we'll have to give the M4 a chance to breath before we pass judgement on its "racing legs." I think you need to take your porsche hat off from time to time...and be honest with yourself and the rest of this forum when discussing that brand. |
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12-29-2013, 07:46 PM | #84 | |
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12-30-2013, 12:59 AM | #85 | ||||
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12-30-2013, 10:13 AM | #86 |
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Just to point out the gt500 is not a special edition or limited edition it's the M3 for the ford mustang line. The only limited edition this generation was the boss 302 Laguna seca.
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12-30-2013, 10:49 AM | #87 |
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I only know a few contemporary BMWs with some minor devaluation or even prices going up : E30 M3 Cecotto/Evo series, Z8, E46 M3 CSL, 1M.
And off course the M3 GTS(my dealer has one 199k euros...) and the CRT... That's about it afaik. Cheers Robin Last edited by Robin_NL; 12-30-2013 at 10:55 AM.. |
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12-30-2013, 01:23 PM | #88 | |
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Says the person who owns a 997 gt3 rs, at least if your garage list is accurate.
You definitely seem to put porsche on a pedestal, hence why you exaggerated your car's resale value and tried to claim a simple fuel cell swap and transmission upgrade was the only difference between your beloved 997 gt3 rs and the pro cup version... Quote:
of the 997 gt3 rs, there is still a $100K price difference (components, tuning, setup, ect.) between the two cars, which you have refused to acknowledge. Actually quite a few on this thread have agreed that the M3 is one of the best do-it-all cars (tracking, daily driver) you can buy for that price tag. You're right...I misspoke. However, I predict in the long run the gt500 and its chevy and dodge counterparts will hold their value if not increase in value due to their engine types and performance-oriented setup's. A lot like how some of the older generation gt350's and chevy camaro's are easily going for $100k+ at car auctions. |
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