-SCANS- Car UK M4 VS C63 AMG

[Jehuty95]

Originally Posted by Carl L

You're a teenager, your post history here makes for cringe worthy reading. I've owned a few MBs over the years, including an AMG I enjoyed.

Now, please either add something of value (i.e.. explain how AMG it is possible that AMG can handbuild their engines at the volume they produce) or go away.

If you think the One Man One engine stuff is b.s then you absolutely don't know anything about AMG. There are plenty of videos out there of how they build the engines.
https://youtu.be/Xuc8sVERy6Q

Added on you can even visit Affalterbach and have a tour of the factory where they build the engines. (I've done this myself back in 2014, and I have no idea if you can tour the new Kolleda facotory which builds the 2.0L AMG engines.). Also congrats on pulling out the teenager card. No idea what that has to do with anything but good job either way.

Edit (Just did some research)- The whole building process takes about 2.5-4 hours depending on the engine. So with having two factories operational, and plenty of AMG Master mechanics working; it's not that difficult to build 30k engines within a year.

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Absolutely incorrect. AMG sell 30,000 cars per year. Nice cars but it's very easy to get huge discounts on them. One engine one man, you have to be on something to fall for that one.

Oh Carl .

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by Carl L

If tuning is getting brought into this I'd rather buy a proper muscle car, the Hellcat, as for 68k 99% of people won't want to invalidate their 4-year warranty or go aftermarket. That said, I prefer German cars but a LSD is essential so M3 or C63S are the options.

Oh Carl again!!!

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Jehuty95

If you think the One Man One engine stuff is b.s then you absolutely don't know anything about AMG. There are plenty of videos out there of how they build the engines.
https://youtu.be/Xuc8sVERy6Q

Added on you can even visit Affalterbach and have a tour of the factory where they build the engines. (I've done this myself back in 2014, and I have no idea if you can tour the new Kolleda facotory which builds the 2.0L AMG engines.). Also congrats on pulling out the teenager card. No idea what that has to do with anything but good job either way.

Edit (Just did some research)- The whole building process takes about 2.5-4 hours depending on the engine. So with having two factories operational, and plenty of AMG Master mechanics working; it's not that difficult to build 30k engines within a year.

The relevance of your age comes in when you post a silly picture. Had you posted this video by way of response it would've indeed been irrelevant. Your follow up was much better.

One thing to remember, the actual build of the engine is done through automation and special tooling. The gentleman at the end then assembles the ten or so parts. This is a simple process (but still a nice one) very similar to what happens at the Porsche factory (I have been there but never to Affalterbach), except when I was there during the assembly process each component was fitted by a worker and then the engine was passed to the next worker.

I suppose my views on AMG and their marketing of the "hand built engines" come from the fact it is more of the assembly process than build, though technically this is considered a build. This is very similar to what happens at the Porsche factory (I have been there but never to Affalterbach), except during the assembly process each part was fitted by a worker and then the engine was passed to the next worker.

[Jehuty95]

Originally Posted by Carl L

The relevance of your age comes in when you post a silly picture. Had you posted this video by way of response it would've indeed been irrelevant. Your follow up was much better.

One thing to remember, the actual build of the engine is done through automation and special tooling. The gentleman at the end then assembles the ten or so parts. This is a simple process (but still a nice one) very similar to what happens at the Porsche factory (I have been there but never to Affalterbach), except when I was there during the assembly process each component was fitted by a worker and then the engine was passed to the next worker.

I suppose my views on AMG and their marketing of the "hand built engines" come from the fact it is more of the assembly process than build, though technically this is considered a build. This is very similar to what happens at the Porsche factory (I have been there but never to Affalterbach), except during the assembly process each part was fitted by a worker and then the engine was passed to the next worker.

In that case your post of "One engine one man, you have to be on something to fall for that one." is rather silly as well. Just because you don't believe in something, or haven't taken the time to research the subject doesn't mean that it's false and that someones "on something" to believe in it etc.

Never knew that Porsche also hand built their engines. Thanks for the info! Ya AMG is quite different in the hand building process. They believe that only one master mechanic should be a part of the building process, and therefore he's fully accountable for the engine.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Jehuty95

In that case your post of "One engine one man, you have to be on something to fall for that one." is rather silly as well. Just because you don't believe in something, or haven't taken the time to research the subject doesn't mean that it's false and that someones "on something" to believe in it etc.

Never knew that Porsche also hand built their engines. Thanks for the info! Ya AMG is quite different in the hand building process. They believe that only one master mechanic should be a part of the building process, and therefore he's fully accountable for the engine.

My original comment was a jab at the poster and the marketing that one man makes the engine from scratch, when they are hand assembled after being built (otherwise they'd be able to sell about 30 cars per year) . Marketing is of course everywhere, like BMW's claim that 50/50 weight distribution gives perfect handing balance, which it does not.

You have been to the factory though and have owned twice as many AMGs as me so I'd be pretty sure you know more than I do about the brand. If it had relevance on a BMW forum I'd list my now-sold Mercedes to make clear to the current crop of AMG fans (like "bimmerJ") who are very keen to defend their cars that I do like the marque, I just happen to have a lot more experience with M and P. To be clear, 911 engines are hand assembled not hand built.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Jehuty95

In that case your post of "One engine one man, you have to be on something to fall for that one." is rather silly as well. Just because you don't believe in something, or haven't taken the time to research the subject doesn't mean that it's false and that someones "on something" to believe in it etc.

Never knew that Porsche also hand built their engines. Thanks for the info! Ya AMG is quite different in the hand building process. They believe that only one master mechanic should be a part of the building process, and therefore he's fully accountable for the engine.

One engine one man is a marketing ploy sir. Carl is right.

It is "hand built" (final assembly) from assembled parts by "master techs."

[bimmerj]

Thanks for the insights Carl. I first thought the technicians started by casting the aluminum parts in sand molds. Now I know they only assemble the parts.

Originally Posted by Carl L

My original comment was a jab at the poster and the marketing that one man makes the engine from scratch, when they are hand assembled after being built (otherwise they'd be able to sell about 30 cars per year) . Marketing is of course everywhere, like BMW's claim that 50/50 weight distribution gives perfect handing balance, which it does not.

You have been to the factory though and have owned twice as many AMGs as me so I'd be pretty sure you know more than I do about the brand. If it had relevance on a BMW forum I'd list my now-sold Mercedes to make clear to the current crop of AMG fans (like "bimmerJ") who are very keen to defend their cars that I do like the marque, I just happen to have a lot more experience with M and P. To be clear, 911 engines are hand assembled not hand built.

[Ahab]

"The BMW feels like a lighter, nimbler, more precise car than the C63".
-Ben Barry
In addition to it having a 6MT, this observation by Ben Barry is how I know I made the right decision to buy the F80.

[DocWeatherington]

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Mako

I do have to hand it to them on the CCB cost though, $5750 I believe, not bad, cheapest I have ever seen it offered!

It is the cheapest because only the fronts are actually carbon ceramic rotors

[Grey///M3]

Hello everyone.

I have seen some videos of the C 63 AMG S and its 510 HP have not impressed me much, unlike the exhaust sound, which is brutal ...
I send two videos to compare 0-250Km/h:
C 63 AMG S ~ 23.5s
M3 F80 ~ 21.5s

Greetings from Portugal.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Grey///M3

Hello everyone.

I have seen some videos of the C 63 AMG S and its 510 HP have not impressed me much, unlike the exhaust sound, which is brutal ...
I send two videos to compare 0-250Km/h:
C 63 AMG S ~ 23.5s
M3 F80 ~ 21.5s

Greetings from Portugal.

thanks for posting, but based on everything we've seen, we can comfortably conclude that the C63S will be not insignificantly faster 0-250km/hr. the base C63 should be a better match, but even that might be faster. 4 liters is a lot more than 3. with a tune, these cars are going to be damn near untouchable in this segment.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by Brosef

thanks for posting, but based on everything we've seen, we can comfortably conclude that the C63S will be not insignificantly faster 0-250km/hr. the base C63 should be a better match, but even that might be faster. 4 liters is a lot more than 3. with a tune, these cars are going to be damn near untouchable in this segment.

The problem is putting that power to the ground, it was tough in the old C63, now its lighter with MORE power... I think the LCI will have an AWD option for the C63S just so Merc can claim improved 0-60 numbers...

also remember the old C63 performance package only added 0.1 seconds to the 0-60 and I even saw magazine tests where it was NO improvement over the base, again most likely because of traction. its adding 7% power to a car that already will have some traction issues, will it really make more of a difference than 0.1-0.2 seconds? and who is to say its not all marketing, I would be interested to see the actual boost specs of the two versions.

I was very interested in the C63 (and S) but after seeing the pricing and the BMW Lease residuals right now, the M3/M4 will be considerably cheaper until Mercedes starts to deal in another year or so. To me these cars are so close in performance/looks that a few thousand in my pocket makes the decision easy.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Mako

The problem is putting that power to the ground, it was tough in the old C63, now its lighter with MORE power... I think the LCI will have an AWD option for the C63S just so Merc can claim improved 0-60 numbers...

Brosef was talking about the 0-250kmh acceleration, which is a little different to the traffic light drag.

IMO more potential customers are interested in the in-gear numbers. These will be markedly quicker.

I agree they'll look at an AWD set up for the S as the have with the E63S, but only for LHD markets (though I do see some talk about future architecture supporting both) as:

"In the E63 AMG S-Model AWD, the front driveshaft sprouts out of the dual-clutch gearbox to the right, meaning that the steering hardware for right-hand-drive variants cannot fit next to the all-wheel drive hardware."

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Jehuty95

In that case your post of "One engine one man, you have to be on something to fall for that one." is rather silly as well. Just because you don't believe in something, or haven't taken the time to research the subject doesn't mean that it's false and that someones "on something" to believe in it etc.

Never knew that Porsche also hand built their engines. Thanks for the info! Ya AMG is quite different in the hand building process. They believe that only one master mechanic should be a part of the building process, and therefore he's fully accountable for the engine.

I think most automotive engines are "hand built" to some degree. The ones from BMW are no different (as I witnessed during my plant tour).

The big difference that AMG markets is that a single technician does the final assembly from beginning to end. Most other manufacturers have the engines built in a production flow where each technician is assigned to a given station a repeats the same operation for every engine. The later is much more efficient but has less glamour to it .