$70KF80 M3 or CPO 991?

[kasher_khan]

So I know it isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. Still I'd like to get some opinions. If anyone has owned both cars, I'd love to hear from them.

I have a 2016 M3 on order. However I recently had a chance to test drive a 2013 CPO 911 (3.4 base engine). The car was MT and new MSRP of 94k. It only had 13,200 miles on it and with Porsche CPO warranty was good for 100K 6yrs. (in this case, good till April 2019).

The car was listed $79K. Now here is the interesting part. It was listed at that price for 5 months till dealer reduced it to 72K and finally to 69K. I checked out some inventory online and it seems 991s CPO go for around 70K w CPO routinely. I am surprised to see how long these cars sit on dealer lots though (new or old). Gives me pause, I don't want to get stuck with a car that the dealer himself couldn't sell for 5 months. I also plan to DD, the car (how practical is that with a porsche). It is really that much more super carish than an M3. I udernstand the tires might need to be changed at 10K, and the average service is pricier than BMW but the major sutff (pads, brakes etc should be needed till 40k.. no?). The car would be under warranty for all the time I own it?

The M3 I had configured had MSRP of 74K before any discounts. I would imagine with some discount and incentives for the price to be a wash. Both cars would have similar warranty and in case of the Porsche probably less loss with depreciation, since it already got a major chunk knocked out in the first two years...

I do have a toddler so the back seat of the Porsche (however impractical) will be required occasionally. Obviously it loses to the BMW on practicality in general. However IMHO it is a more dedicated sports car and definitely makes up the points in the fun dept. I am not looking for outright performance though (Since I won't ever be tracking either car). However when I test drove the M3 (also 6MT) and then compare it to my porsche test drive, I definely felt more engaged in the POrsche (a lot more...).

Both the M3 and 991 would be daily drivers (to and from work w some spirited runs in between). I do have the wife's car for family errands. I travel alone 90% of the time.

I would post this question in the Porsche forums (except I am not a member of the Porsche forums Because I never considered the 911 to be affordable options. Now I am starting to question if that is really the case for me (I understand both cars are not a financially sound move, but I am not looking for financial advice here).

Just wanna know what you guys think... 70K CPO porsche or M3?

[X2Board]

I think you should drive both, examine your priorities, then decide which works best for your situation.

[bates1325]

I have wrote about this in the past so I'll give you a quick overview.

I have had my 991 manual base engine for 2 and a half years so

Do you plan to push the car to that limit on a daily basis on the street where you truly get to experience what makes a Porsche so special?

I have daily driven my manual 991 for two years and while at first I was absolutely thrilled and happy to do so, I noticed over time how much of a chore it was to daily drive in a heavy traffic area

The 991 is absolutely brilliant don't get me wrong, but I never was really able to properly open her up on the road. High revving engine matched with a manual transmission is just not fun in Miami bumper to bumper.

The f80 is just an easy car to get in and out, low end torque so you don't have to wind it up to make small passes. Plus on the days you do decide to track it, you could do a fairly good job.

If you have any questions, message me and I can help you out there

[PodDoc]

Seems like you found a pretty good deal on the 911. I have always wanted a 911 but a little too impractical to have as my only car in the chicagoland area. If youre looking for a sports car and can afford the maintenance, i would get that. I would in a heartbeat if i could. You will undoubtedly get all sorts of advice here, but in the end, get the one that excites you more, otherwise you will be wondering whether you should have gotten the other one instead.

[SamS]

Normally, I'd say go for the 911. But as a dad of two little ones, using a 911 for daily transport would seem to be a real pain.

[mc3456]

Having driven both cars on the track, I felt the 911 had slightly sharper handling whereas I felt my F80 was more powerful. Two different cars for different priorities. Only you know what your daily needs are.

[chillindrdude]

If daily driveability is your main concern, the M3 is gonna give you what you want plus 90% of handling (compared to the 911) when driving gets spirited


I am obviously biased.

Finances aren't a concern, but if you are buying, the nod goes to the 911. It's already taken the depreciation hit. And I think the 911 will hold value better in the 5-10 year time frame.

[M3 n X5M]

I have always wanted a 911. And probably will always want one.

My M3 brings so much joy every single day. The E90 is so soulful and sweet.

I drove a Porsche only once or twice and then on the track one e again. It is a totally different car.

And instead the BMW is luxury, service, comfort, safety and sheer performance. Out of a sedan!!!!

I do believe p cars are way overpriced and that is why they sit so long. They are worth about 10% less in my book.

I would get the M3!!

[M3 n X5M]

Sorry about the rant. But it is the truth to me. If I had a little kid I would get the M3.

And I have an 8 yr old. And that is why we do not have a p car. It's just too much money for such a tiny package.

[EfEightyM3]

I say go for the 991 is you want a sharper car. The 911 is going to be more luxury oriented and more handling/performance oriented as well. There's a lot of reasons why they are so expensive and the endless and countless hours they spend perfecting the car is why they can command such prices. Used allows you to get a better price and the same car.

I am selling my F80 M3 for a 991 and can't wait to dump the M3!

You surely need to drive both and determine what you want, but if you care more about feel, handling, and a car that will make just about anything else feel lazy in its dynamics, the 911 is the only choice.

Either car will have more than enough power for the daily drive, but I find the M3 power band to be mundane, mixed with a sound I don't find pleasing in the least bit (I also have MPE) and devoid of feel so it has been one of the fastest cars to get and get rid of.

[Cajun1]

I found myself in nearly the same situation choosing between a clean CPO 991 and an M4. I spent a lot of time test driving various 991's and while the styling is superb the 991 was not what I was looking for at this point.

There is no doubt that the Porsche rules when it comes to handling but there are very few nearby places to truly take advantage of it's cornering prowess.

Despite previous comment, acceleration isn't quite on par with the F80. The BMW has thrilling acceleration across a wide RPM range as apposed to the 991 needing to be in the upper rpms to pull you back in the seat. My car is Euro MDM coded (which helps a lot) and pulls much harder than the 991.

Our M4 has Adaptive Suspension which delivers a more comfortable ride compared to the base 911. The Porsche seats are very supportive but rubbed me the wrong way on the seams near my arms. Ingress/egress is more challenging in tight parking spots and while not a deal breaker it's a minor consideration. This could be an issue if you need to open the doors of the 911 wide enough to let the kids in the back seat.

During the CPO period you'll be responsible for maintenance and wear items like brakes and rotors so be prepared for that.

At some point I might opt for the Porsche but it will need to be at least an S so that I won't be disappointed in it's power-band. Something keeps drawing me back to those cars but I'm not sure if it's justifiable or just really liking the way they look.

These are both cars that we are very fortunate to be able to experience. Pick the one that satisfies your situation and enjoy!

[heart_doctor]

Originally Posted by SamS

Normally, I'd say go for the 911. But as a dad of two little ones, using a 911 for daily transport would seem to be a real pain.

I agree. If the 911 is your only mode of transport then it will be difficult with kids. I personally am thinking of getting into a 911 for my next car but the 911 would be my fun car.

[RobbyMack]

Do your sanity a favor and buy the BMW. You have a toddler, and probably another at some point in the future. There will always be p cars around likely driven very gently by some old coot who bought one in his 70's and then quickly kicked the bucket. When the kids are out of the house you'll enjoy it much more. Trust me.

[Ian1973]

i have tossed around a 911 but the compromises on storage, usability, etc is almost to much for me. I mean back when I was single, I could barely fit a weeks worth of groceries in it. I don't have the money for two cars (or garage space really), so the 911 would have to function as an every day car. To me it wasn't worth it. Enter the M3.

[nicknaz]

To throw another fly in the oitment, check out the non CPO 997 turbos same price also

Personally, I went with the M3 and did euro delivery and PCD. Custom ordering, picking up in Germany and unleashing the car on the a-bahn and tourist driving on the tracks there is amazing and highly recommended.

In the ideal world, I'd have done the same thing in a GT series car, but those are obviously a lot more $ so I'll take that experience in an M3 for now.

The way I see it, used p-car will always be around, and for me, a base 911 doesn't have enough straight line grunt

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by Cajun1

I found myself in nearly the same situation choosing between a clean CPO 991 and an M4. I spent a lot of time test driving various 991's and while the styling is superb the 991 was not what I was looking for at this point.

There is no doubt that the Porsche rules when it comes to handling but there are very few nearby places to truly take advantage of it's cornering prowess.

Despite previous comment, acceleration isn't quite on par with the F80. The BMW has thrilling acceleration across a wide RPM range as apposed to the 991 needing to be in the upper rpms to pull you back in the seat. My car is Euro MDM coded (which helps a lot) and pulls much harder than the 991.

Our M4 has Adaptive Suspension which delivers a more comfortable ride compared to the base 911. The Porsche seats are very supportive but rubbed me the wrong way on the seams near my arms. Ingress/egress is more challenging in tight parking spots and while not a deal breaker it's a minor consideration. This could be an issue if you need to open the doors of the 911 wide enough to let the kids in the back seat.

During the CPO period you'll be responsible for maintenance and wear items like brakes and rotors so be prepared for that.

At some point I might opt for the Porsche but it will need to be at least an S so that I won't be disappointed in it's power-band. Something keeps drawing me back to those cars but I'm not sure if it's justifiable or just really liking the way they look.

These are both cars that we are very fortunate to be able to experience. Pick the one that satisfies your situation and enjoy!

Hi Cajun - this isn't the first reference I've seen about torque/pull/power with Euro MDM. Don't want to jack the thread but what am I missing? The MDM is a stability feature that engages later in euro spec vs the US nanny.

Are you talking about DSC intervention off the line? If not, how does euro MDM make the car pull harder?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Hi Cajun - this isn't the first reference I've seen about torque/pull/power with Euro MDM. Don't want to jack the thread but what am I missing? The MDM is a stability feature that engages later in euro spec vs the US nanny.

Are you talking about DSC intervention off the line? If not, how does euro MDM make the car pull harder?

euro mdm still intervenes and reduces power.

go DSC OFF to fully understand the power difference between M3/M4 and base 991 but make sure you are ready to catch the rear end....

[JTmarlin]

I am a Porsche fan, have been for many years. I have driven a 996 TT, a 997 GT3, 991 base 3.4......and yearn for a TT/GT3 in the future.

With that being said, a co-worker recently got a 991 3.4L as a 2nd car, and when i drove it, i found myself walking away thinking about how much the car lacked in power. It didn't nearly put me back in the seat and wasn't punchy around town.

I recently drove an M4 for the day, and it convinced me to begin researching the car and i will be ordering a 2016 soon. In my opinion, the 2 cars don't even compare, I'd need to drive a Carrera S before i'd even consider.

Only you can decide.

[kasher_khan]

Thanks for all the input guys. The thread was a lot more civil that I expected. I was expecting to be flamed for even considering a base 911 in comparison to M3.

A lot of the points raised here echo my own thoughts. I thank you all for the input. Just to summarize a few points.

The M3 was my first choice (hence it is on order), just that seeing such a gr8 price for CPO 911 gave me some thing to ponder.

I do have another car when we need to go out as a family. The 911 or M3 for that matter would be my ..."fun" ride

I am ok with the 911 not having low end grunt. Here in NOVA the cops are crazy and even in my S4 sometimes I feel like I am going to fast. the slower 911 would let me enjoy the car more without pushing it the legal boundaries.. The S is definetly too fast (roomate had 911 2s that I got to drive a lot and it was definetly too fast). I have a feeling the M3 would also be too fast for NOVA. If the 340i had some more sporting options like a diff, better leather, better tires etc, I might even consider that and save some money. As it is, by specing that car all the way, I am better off with an M3.

I honestly considered ordering a Cayman GTS first (got 7% off, which puts it right next to the other two) price wise. But the total lack of a back seat means I can not even consider taking the wife (& kid) along occasionally. ALso it is definetly harsh despite PASM.

Anyways I wanna thank all for their input, especially bates1325! for his input in PM.

[Devilzmantis]

Porsche, go S or go home much like the BMW go M or go home. Both are great cars but I enjoy the M4 so much more than my sold 997 manual. And if you get the S, getting stuck in traffic or behind a hoard of cars going at speed limit is awful and uncomfortable unlike the M4. One thing that i've been told and I know for sure is the exhaust note of the M3/M4 is far better than the Porsche.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by kasher_khan

Thanks for all the input guys. The thread was a lot more civil that I expected. I was expecting to be flamed for even considering a base 911 in comparison to M3.

A lot of the points raised here echo my own thoughts. I thank you all for the input. Just to summarize a few points.

The M3 was my first choice (hence it is on order), just that seeing such a gr8 price for CPO 911 gave me some thing to ponder.

I do have another car when we need to go out as a family. The 911 or M3 for that matter would be my ..."fun" ride

I am ok with the 911 not having low end grunt. Here in NOVA the cops are crazy and even in my S4 sometimes I feel like I am going to fast. the slower 911 would let me enjoy the car more without pushing it the legal boundaries.. The S is definetly too fast (roomate had 911 2s that I got to drive a lot and it was definetly too fast). I have a feeling the M3 would also be too fast for NOVA. If the 340i had some more sporting options like a diff, better leather, better tires etc, I might even consider that and save some money. As it is, by specing that car all the way, I am better off with an M3.

I honestly considered ordering a Cayman GTS first (got 7% off, which puts it right next to the other two) price wise. But the total lack of a back seat means I can not even consider taking the wife (& kid) along occasionally. ALso it is definetly harsh despite PASM.

Anyways I wanna thank all for their input, especially bates1325! for his input in PM.

My vote M3,

The M3 has room, speed, comfort... duality of being awesomely sporty a joy to drive but also calm comforting for daily use or long road trips.

Another thing to consider is the Maintenance Cost of the 911 and the boards approval (spouse) rates. The M3 has no expense beyond tires the next 4yrs.

The F80 platform has more reasonable modifications in the cost/benefit ratio, if that's your thing.

However there is no substitute for a 911... An I myself want one, but it wasn't practical last summer.

Another option is get the M3 and maybe a used 20K P-Car that you can use a fun/track car and do some work on as a hobby.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by kasher_khan

Thanks for all the input guys. The thread was a lot more civil that I expected. I was expecting to be flamed for even considering a base 911 in comparison to M3.

A lot of the points raised here echo my own thoughts. I thank you all for the input. Just to summarize a few points.

The M3 was my first choice (hence it is on order), just that seeing such a gr8 price for CPO 911 gave me some thing to ponder.

I do have another car when we need to go out as a family. The 911 or M3 for that matter would be my ..."fun" ride

I am ok with the 911 not having low end grunt. Here in NOVA the cops are crazy and even in my S4 sometimes I feel like I am going to fast. the slower 911 would let me enjoy the car more without pushing it the legal boundaries.. The S is definetly too fast (roomate had 911 2s that I got to drive a lot and it was definetly too fast). I have a feeling the M3 would also be too fast for NOVA. If the 340i had some more sporting options like a diff, better leather, better tires etc, I might even consider that and save some money. As it is, by specing that car all the way, I am better off with an M3.

I honestly considered ordering a Cayman GTS first (got 7% off, which puts it right next to the other two) price wise. But the total lack of a back seat means I can not even consider taking the wife (& kid) along occasionally. ALso it is definetly harsh despite PASM.

Anyways I wanna thank all for their input, especially bates1325! for his input in PM.

You live in NoVA? Seriously, I wouldn't even get an MCar. Buy yourself a really nice 528 and do yourself a favor. I was frustrated with even a 535 when I lived there.

I would also tell you I'm not sure where you commute, but I think that you can ride the Beltway HOT lanes for free in an i3 (I moved literally the month before they opened them). Same with 395. And if that were the case, I'd definitely have an i3....probably wouldn't even need a REX.

That thing would be a hoot in NoVA.