Video: F80 M3 ZCP Competition vs Giulia Quadrifoglio - Driver Swap Review

[mirob]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Bit lengthy but different.

Enjoy!

Part I - Giulia Quadrifoglio

Part II - F80 M3 ZCP

[mcc3456]

Good comparison. Though in the same class and similar on paper, they go about their work very differently. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong either way. Having owned both, it all comes down to personal preference. One thing is for sure though, they are both more fun than the C63s and RS5.

[Jojipoji]

eh, not sure about being more fun than the c63s. Have you driven one? the f80 in manual for sure is more fun but the dct is so much less engaging. If going auto/dct I actually have more fun in the amg than my f80. v8 twin turbo and the ease of being able to control a sideways spin, the exhaust note. yummy.

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Good comparison. Though in the same class and similar on paper, they go about their work very differently. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong either way. Having owned both, it all comes down to personal preference. One thing is for sure though, they are both more fun than the C63s and RS5.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

eh, not sure about being more fun than the c63s. Have you driven one? the f80 in manual for sure is more fun but the dct is so much less engaging. If going auto/dct I actually have more fun in the amg than my f80. v8 twin turbo and the ease of being able to control a sideways spin, the exhaust note. yummy.

I’ve owned a C63, E63, CLK63, and E63s in succession prior to buying my F80 M3, which has since been replaced with a Quadrifoglio. Both the M3 and Quadrifoglio are more fun. The AMGs are nice, but a notch below in handling and road feel. C63s has a great engine, but if you can't get the power to the ground, no point in having it. That is the reason why the Next Gen M3 is heading the optional AWD route.

[Jojipoji]

Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?

Originally Posted by mcc3456

I’ve owned a C63, E63, CLK63, and E63s in succession prior to buying my F80 M3, which has since been replaced with a Quadrifoglio. Both the M3 and Quadrifoglio are more fun. The AMGs are nice, but a notch below in handling and road feel. C63s has a great engine, but if you can't get the power to the ground, no point in having it. That is the reason why the Next Gen M3 is heading the optional AWD route.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?

Yes, did not have a w205 but have driven it, and also had the faster E63s. Awesome cars, but not a nimble at the M3 nor Quadrifoglio.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

Just to be clear, you had a w205 or w204 c63s?

W205 C63S Coupe puts the power down better than the m3/4 and just as well as the Quadrifoglio...except the Quad does have a bit stickier tire than the C63 so that counts for something.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

W205 C63S Coupe puts the power down better than the m3/4 and just as well as the Quadrifoglio...except the Quad does have a bit stickier tire than the C63 so that counts for something.

Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.

If they go AWD then yes it will, but it will also be pushing 4000 lbs given a fully loaded DCT M3 now is already 3700 without AWD. Then again, their awd also makes the steering feel even worse than it already is, like the M5 (yuck) and doesn’t help in dynamics either.

Otherwise though, the 2019 C63 is fantastic in that regard and also has the 9 speed traction control from the AMG GT-R which works very well.

[RowanBuds]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Pretty much everything else does. It is the one real sore spot for the M3/M4. You know that won't be a problem in next-gen though...that is for sure.

Without apples--apples Re: Rubber, the statements on putting power down are irrelevant to me. A self respecting person who is buying a toy - yes, they're toys - like this should expect to replace the rubber at least once in their ownership, if over 18 months or so. If the difference between a depreciating asset you don't enjoy and one you do enjoy is determined by putting the power down, an investment of under $1,000 would resolve your concerns.

If you re-shod the F80 with it's 255/275 MPSS OEM rubber, yes it has trouble hooking up. If, you spent a bit more per tire and put on RE-71R, or 265/295 MPSS, or MPSC2s or the same Alfa tire - the F80 will hook right up.

Only speaking from my personal experience going to both RE-71R and also 295 MPSS out back though, what do I know.

[EricSMG]

I just don't get the traction comments about the ZCP, at all. I can use nearly/fully 100% of the grunt on this thing in 2nd gear all the time, assuming warm/dry conditions, on stock PSS 285s.

Canyon runs... WOT in 2nd gear, coming out of tight corners... very, very hooked.

What am I missing?

Edit - I can easily break my E46 M3 loose if I try. My E90M3 was even easier, if I tried. Point is, a truly powerful car like the F80 will spin if provoked. So will a Corvette. Camaro. Mustang, etc.

[Jojipoji]

you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol

Originally Posted by EricSMG

I just don't get the traction comments about the ZCP, at all. I can use nearly/fully 100% of the grunt on this thing in 2nd gear all the time, assuming warm/dry conditions, on stock PSS 285s.

Canyon runs... WOT in 2nd gear, coming out of tight corners... very, very hooked.

What am I missing?

Edit - I can easily break my E46 M3 loose if I try. My E90M3 was even easier, if I tried. Point is, a truly powerful car like the F80 will spin if provoked. So will a Corvette. Camaro. Mustang, etc.

[Jojipoji]

fun is subjective but with that said, you are comparing a w204 vs a f80. the proper comparison is w205 which drives totally different. Ive owned both cars and two iterations of the f80. The c63s is not as light and nimble and doesnt have the overall handling at the limit, but the drifting characteristics is more stable than the f80. the f80 is more twitchy. the c63s is way more progressive as you can easily feel the back end slowly come out. I.e its more controllable sideways which in my opinion makes it much more fun. with that said it doesnt come in manual.

for me f80 manual < c63s < f80 dct in terms of overall fun

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Yes, did not have a w205 but have driven it, and also had the faster E63s. Awesome cars, but not a nimble at the M3 nor Quadrifoglio.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol

Haha, yep, good point.

I just, personally, would never ever say that the F80Z is traction limited. Quite the contrary - I think it hooks extremely well for how much power it makes.

But even in the rain (it's been pouring here) the ZCP hooks really, really good. I have to provoke it to break it loose.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by RowanBuds

Without apples--apples Re: Rubber, the statements on putting power down are irrelevant to me. A self respecting person who is buying a toy - yes, they're toys - like this should expect to replace the rubber at least once in their ownership, if over 18 months or so. If the difference between a depreciating asset you don't enjoy and one you do enjoy is determined by putting the power down, an investment of under $1,000 would resolve your concerns.

If you re-shod the F80 with it's 255/275 MPSS OEM rubber, yes it has trouble hooking up. If, you spent a bit more per tire and put on RE-71R, or 265/295 MPSS, or MPSC2s or the same Alfa tire - the F80 will hook right up.

Only speaking from my personal experience going to both RE-71R and also 295 MPSS out back though, what do I know.

Nice theory, but it’s not the tires. Even with snow tires on each car on a dry road the Alfa hooks up better. I had both in the garage at the same time. There is a meaningful difference.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Nice theory, but it’s not the tires. Even with snow tires on each car on a dry road the Alfa hooks up better. I had both in the garage at the same time. There is a meaningful difference.

My theory is the traction control is just way too intrusive. Tires don’t get any chance to slip. I remember being amazed at how lenient my friends boss 302 is. Tires could slip for almost a full second before cutting throttle.

At first I thought it was the suspension, but with TC off the car still goes straight if the tires are spinning and steering wheel is pointed straight. I’m sure it’s a mix of both but a more lenient TC would go such a long way.

MDM isn’t that much better, but it helps. Wider tires help way more

[Darth One]

I could barely make it past part 1. Nothing against those three guys, they seem like good dudes but there's just nothing interesting in what they're saying, except that it's good for the QF that the M3 owner seems to really like it.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by ntgarage44

My theory is the traction control is just way too intrusive. Tires don’t get any chance to slip. I remember being amazed at how lenient my friends boss 302 is. Tires could slip for almost a full second before cutting throttle.

At first I thought it was the suspension, but with TC off the car still goes straight if the tires are spinning and steering wheel is pointed straight. I’m sure it’s a mix of both but a more lenient TC would go such a long way.

MDM isn’t that much better, but it helps. Wider tires help way more

Hate to shoot down your theory, but even in Race Mode (all safety systems off), the Alfa is still more sure-footed from a stop than the M3 even with all safety systems on. Part of it is likely the tuning (power delivery) and part is the more effective rear diff. Perhaps it is just more advanced being newer, but pretty sure the new M3 will resolve that blatant short-coming.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I could barely make it past part 1. Nothing against those three guys, they seem like good dudes but there's just nothing interesting in what they're saying, except that it's good for the QF that the M3 owner seems to really like it.

At the end of the day, it’s all personal opinion/preference, but overall they did accurately portray most of the unique differences. They are exactly that differences, not flaws or superior traits. You can’t go wrong with either vehicle.

[Lifted07Duramax]

W205 C63 over M3/M4 all day long

And talking about a new M3 that could be AWD, well the W206 C63 is coming in 2021 so be ready lol

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

you california people are spoiled. LOL. come to new england where traction is a one season event. lol

I have just as much traction in the winter months with 285/30 PA4s. PSS are no good below 50*.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I have just as much traction in the winter months with 285/30 PA4s. PSS are no good below 50*.

Agreed. Actually had much better traction on my M3 with snowtires in the cold than on a 65 degree day with the PSS...and even just pulling out of my driveway, it was very noticeable.