F80 vs Porsche 718 Cayman?

[uluwatu06]

Dear Arcades,

The above has been really informative and am sure it will also serve as a good read/guidance for other fellow car enthusiast.

I certainly understand the point you are trying to bring across and i am very appreciative of the long read, especially coming from someone who is an ex-owner of the F80/82.

Thank you and i will think about this again.

[Humdizzle]

I just drove a base 718 boxster on vacation. In comparison to my 2015 F80 i'd say the porsche is better. Acceleration in the 4 cylinder is surprisingly decent. Part of that is probably due to the low weight. Steering is much better. Ride quality is better; better damping and in general mid engine cars just ride better than their front engine competitors. Sound is kinda meh... but its not like the S55 is any better.

[RIP1981]

Hi all,

I sold my yasmarinablue BMW F80 M3 DKG a few days ago und switched to a gt silver Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 manual.

I previously drove an Porsche 987 Cayman S and a Porsche 911 4S (991.1) and then the BMW (partly same time with the 911).

Apart from being practical and kind of a german muscle car turbo beast, I couldn't really get warm with it.

My new Cayman feels a LOT lighter, is much more involving (again) to drive. The overall driving experience is so much better for me.

I really tried with the BMW. It is a fun car somehow ... always a light rear, because the chassis really can't cope with the mighty and impressive engine. The S55 apart from the sound is really a very good and efficient engine with lots of torque.
But the rear tyres need a lot of starting speed and good conditions, to really put the power down.
After all the chassis is just a practical sedan similar to its usual brothers.

As I really try these cars not only in daily use, I visited a few trackdays in Hockenheim and drove a lot laps on the Nordschleife.

The stock M3 really can't cope with Nordschleife. I drove 5 laps and 3 of the 4 rotors were damaged (vibrating). As they were brand new my BMW dealer really couldn't explain why ... but I know it.

You really NEED different brake pads. Either the sport version from BMW, which squeke a lot and are really a bit embarrasing in daily use ... or you have to use stuff which is not street legal. At least here in Germany.

I tried the endless MX72 pads and they fixed the problem. I could do a lot more laps without any issues and the braking performance was quite a bit better.
But they are not street legal in Germany and you can get into a lot of trouble in case of a bad accident. So not a really good feeling ... technically they were great though.

I also tried to get rid of the heavy and kind of wobbly feeling in some parts of the Nordschleife with a lot of weight transfers.
The adaptive suspension couldn't cope with some parts really good.

So I switched to an Oehlins Road&Track suspension with Milway strut mounts, more camber angle and H&R stabilizers. I also changed to a stainless steel brake hose.

This made the BMW a bit better on Nordschleife and I didn't have to repair stuff after a few laps

BUT it made the car really bad in daily driving. Every bump hit the car quite badly, eventhough I had a quite soft setting for the shock absorbers.
Still it was kind of jumpy ... good enough for the Nordschleife but on daily streets there are quite bigger bumps. Even on the autobahn it didn't feel realy trustworthy on some bad faster parts.

On Hockenheim with the Michelin Pilot Super Sport the car changes its grip levels every 3 or 4 laps as the tyres really overheat quite a lot. The next step would have been semi slicks ... but they are really bad for daily driving in rain especially and you have to change them more often apart from being more expensive overall.

So either the BMW can be modified for track use without failing and moderately quick ... but you really lose a lot of daily driving abilities ... OR if you keep it stock and it is quite ok for daily driving it won't work on track if you are really going for it and not driving slowly.

Performancewise it is partly more of a fun drift car which on purpose is a bit harsh suspensionwise even stock and has a very light rear. But I am not the kind of driver who really wants to drift around in public traffic.
And on track I want performance and not tyre destruction.

===
So finally I realized that I can't be happy with the BMW as track car AND daily driver.

The Porsche on the other hand can combine the best of both worlds apart from the space perhaps.

The Cayman is hugely more comfortable than the M3 with the Oehlins suspension and even a bit more comfy than the adaptive suspension on most of the bumps.
I guess it is because of the midengine layout which allows dealing with bumps in the light front a lot better as there is no weight there.
In the same time the Cayman has really a LOT more traction. You can full throttle first gear without issues and even second gear in slightly wet conditions and it will bring down all the power or at least most of it (in wet conditions).
It just MOVES. No blinking of ESP, no tyre squeeling ... just pure performance.
Even over bumps it never unsettles really or let go of the grip.

So it is more comfy and delivers a lot more performance. AND you still feel a lot more what the car is doing, what the street is like ... not just the hard bumps in your back in the M3 ... but real subtle differences in road condition. Its the sports car chassis and seating position I guess.

What more can you wish for? More feeling, more comfort and more performance than the BMW M3

The acceleration is quite comparable. About 9 seconds 100 to 200 ... with the turbos and DKG in some situations the M3 might be a bit quicker. But who cares really ... on the race track there is really no chance without massive modifications to the BMW.

The acceleration in the Cayman is a lot more fun though. The sound is so much better with the 4.0 engine without any turbos. It really screams. Every rpm zone is different, every throttle position is different ... it all sounds different. Not everywhere nearly the same as most turbos do.

And the acceleration is a lot more instantaneously. You don't have to wait for anything. Foot down and it goes. Better control on the racetrack too.
Just a lot more amusing even in daily drive.

Apart from that a Porsche sportscar just is beautiful and everyone knows it is special even without any knowledge about cars. Even kids react from the first second.

The F80 was just another BMW here in Germany with a quite strange color. Some people really liked the blue, especially women asked about it. But apart from the petrol heads nearly nobody knew that this is a special car.

The prestige is not really important to me (eventhough I love the reaction of the kids )

But I love looking at the Porsche while drinking a coffee ... and the BMW was ok but not as beautiful and amazing as the Porsche for me and most other people.

Concerning space the Cayman has 2 boots. In the front I can put in 4 x 6 bottles of 1.5 Liter water. 3 water boxes side by side and one on the top of them. And still there is a lot of space in the rear for another 2 or 3 or other purchases.
So if you don't have kids you have more than enough space for most daily stuff. You can't pick up furniture however


So Conclusion:
If you really don't need the practicality of the big BMW, because of kids or other daily things ... you really should go for the Porsche.
Drivingwise it is sooo much better.

The only reason drivingwise to keep the BMW would be to drift the hell out of it. Because the Porsche is not built to drift and waste power in tyre smoke

Cheers
RIP

[RIP1981]

And a few photos

[Soul Coughing]

If you can get away with your daily driver being a 2 door Porsche, then it's the obvious choice over the M3! My wife was pregnant, and my 2 door cars would be unable to carry baby seats and all the extra stuff that goes along with newborns, so the F80 seemed like a logical choice. I love the M3, it's fast, handles well, and fun to drive, but can hold lots of stuff when I need it to. When I get back into my Honda S2000, the M3 feels big, digital, and not as engaging, but I'm alright with that. I've only briefly driven the 718, but from what I remember, it felt modern, but also really engaging! Love the Porsches above my posts btw!

[Yvette]

Nice 718 gts! There is a 20~30k big premiums in local dealerships.

[mzcp]

If you don't need the rear seats. That's the obvious choice. #Savethemanuals

[RIP1981]

Racetrack also much better with the Cayman

Brakes completely stock including pads and it just worked out of the box.

Quick from the beginning for my driver skills ... only manual is a lot more work but fun

[RIP1981]

And btw

[Kamron]

Originally Posted by Arcades

There is literally no need.

A F8x car and a 718 car serve two different purposes.

One is a sedan, with two turbos and gives you full basically full torque at 2,600 RPMs. In earlier cars, it would give you 400+ lbs of full torque at 2,200 RPMs. Which makes the car into a tire killer among other hilarious meme inducing moments (aka crashing). The car is an instant gratification and barely makes you work for it. It also makes it close to impossible to drive it properly on the street because of the amount of power and torque it gives you.

The 718, the Turbo Fours (base, S and original GTS), the NA Flat Six (GTS 4.0, GT4, Spyder, GT4 RS) makes you work into the power band with a mid engine setup that is basically no where else aside from Porsche or Corvette. There is no instant gratification and unless you actually drive the darn thing, you will not be in its general power band. The power is usable on the street without you feeling like you are going to get a speeding ticket all the time.

I have owned a F82 and F80 basically from the start of production all the way to the end production and there is 0 doubt my Cayman is a better car. Even the basic Cayman, S or original GTS (that has the Flat Four) are great little cars that isn't as rough as my GT4. Like I said, if tech is something that is extremely important to you, then the current 718 isn't going to do it. These cars aren't designed for anything else but driving, there are no distractions. And aside from the GT4 and Spyder, all the rest of the lineup can be equipped with basically anything, including the Entry and Drive if that really does bother you, which it doesn't for me. I love turning my key. If you also care, 911s and 718s are dime a dozen.

I come from BMWs, I still love the brand but aside from the interior space, which I am not big on anymore, I am find the driving experience from BMW just severely lacking in comparison and I absolutely despise the early torque nonsense even more.

Well said.

[GuyLedouche]

I just ordered a GTS 4.0 6MT. I'll let you know how it goes when I get the car in a year or so.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

I just ordered a GTS 4.0 6MT. I'll let you know how it goes when I get the car in a year or so.

Nice!


I just took delivery of my base Cayman last week. It's epic. Doesn't have the low down torque of the BMW M cars I've had but the chassis is absolutely epic with PASM suspension and styling inside and out is absolutely beautiful and sinister at the same time! Feels absolutely telepathic and so balanced. Also sounds way better than my F80. Not sure why the Turbo 4 gets dinged on sound… sport exhaust is standard now and sounds incredible!

[Clark_Kent]

RIP1981 You are spot on. You nailed it on your piece about the modifications required to make the F80 track ready. It doesn't just work out of the box. This goes for the CS model as well which is absolutely unacceptable. After I bought my CS I was shocked it wasn't all that different from the Base and ZCP. The brakes, tires, and suspension set up were all inadequate out of the box for track duty. The Porsche is a completely different story.

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

I just ordered a GTS 4.0 6MT. I'll let you know how it goes when I get the car in a year or so.

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Nice!


I just took delivery of my base Cayman last week. It's epic. Doesn't have the low down torque of the BMW M cars I've had but the chassis is absolutely epic with PASM suspension and styling inside and out is absolutely beautiful and sinister at the same time! Feels absolutely telepathic and so balanced. Also sounds way better than my F80. Not sure why the Turbo 4 gets dinged on sound… sport exhaust is standard now and sounds incredible!

Congrats to you both! I ordered a Cayman GT4 that should be here late this year or early next year.

[GuyLedouche]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

RIP1981 You are spot on. You nailed it on your piece about the modifications required to make the F80 track ready. It doesn't just work out of the box. This goes for the CS model as well which is absolutely unacceptable. After I bought my CS I was shocked it wasn't all that different from the Base and ZCP. The brakes, tires, and suspension set up were all inadequate out of the box for track duty. The Porsche is a completely different story.

Congrats to you both! I ordered a Cayman GT4 that should be here late this year or early next year.

As soon as my car arrives I'm going to try to weasel my way into a GT4RS. Wish me luck 😂

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Nice!


I just took delivery of my base Cayman last week. It's epic. Doesn't have the low down torque of the BMW M cars I've had but the chassis is absolutely epic with PASM suspension and styling inside and out is absolutely beautiful and sinister at the same time! Feels absolutely telepathic and so balanced. Also sounds way better than my F80. Not sure why the Turbo 4 gets dinged on sound… sport exhaust is standard now and sounds incredible!

Congrats.

Regarding the noise, that is simple. A lot of Porsche owners are on the older side, or have been with Porsche for a while so they have certain preferences when it comes to sound. For them, it's nothing but NA Flat Six, and nothing else will due. It is how it is for them. Those owners, especially on the Rennlist side, tend to have very specific tastes.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

As soon as my car arrives I'm going to try to weasel my way into a GT4RS. Wish me luck ��

It's not terribly difficult if you're willing to pay. Candidly, it was more difficult to find a GT4 than it was a GT4 RS. The RS variant is an instant unicorn à la the 911R or 918 so if you can do it, go for it. I like your line of thinking!

[fanofbmwe46]

KBB says my base cayman is worth $15K more than MSRP as a trade in… I wonder if I could order a Cayman S and trade into it straight up?!?! Going to ask my dealer if this is an option.

[gatorfast]

Dealers are charging over msrp for new cars so any equity gained will likely be given away by paying more for the new car. I have had my 718 for over 2 years and kbb trade in value is $10k+ more than I paid for it so I could actually make money driving a Porsche for 2 years. But that's only if it sell it straight up. Buying anything else in this market at inflated prices would be a push.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Dealers are charging over msrp for new cars so any equity gained will likely be given away by paying more for the new car. I have had my 718 for over 2 years and kbb trade in value is $10k+ more than I paid for it so I could actually make money driving a Porsche for 2 years. But that's only if it sell it straight up. Buying anything else in this market at inflated prices would be a push.

That's generally true; however, you would need to stratify the population by model. It really depends on the model and the ADM. It's fair to say any GT car puts you in a good position with respect to resale value provided a reasonable ADM. It will be interesting to see the effect electrification will have on ICE Porsche resale values.

[gatorfast]

Yup Porsche GT cars always hold their value very well, even before this craziness started.

On another note, I had a few different friends recently take delivery of a Maserati MC20 and a Lambo Huracan drop top and both had to sign something with their dealers giving them right of first refusal if they sell the cars within 12 months. Lambo dealer even offered my friend $50K extra to immediately buy it back from him. Crazy times.

[RowanBuds]

Originally Posted by binitafelicity

The current 718 Cayman and Boxster haven't featured, but we expect reliability to be strong for these cars, although of course they are likely to go through consumables faster than Cps tester the average car, especially if you use the car's performance on a regular basis.Porsche claims a 0-60 mph time of 3.2 seconds and a top speed of 196 mph. The RS is close to half a second quicker to 60 mph than the regular GT4 and 10 mph quicker top speed as well. The Cayman GT4 RS is about 30 mm lower than the standard GT4.

@mods is this a bot?? This is just machine regurgitation.....could use 2FA for account creation?