CSF x VF "GAME CHANGER" Top mount charge-air-cooler

[M3CLESS]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

We've already sold out of all by 1 unit from our first shipment.
It seems that all of our track day customers are already preparing for Spring!

Pre-orders are being accepted for the next shipment of top mount
Charger Coolers and front mount Heat Exchangers.

So what is the price range for these.. if you can PM me the price I would appreciate it. I want the one in wrinkle black

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

[...]we went back to the computer for CFD analysis.

Can you elaborate? CFD analysis via FlowSim in SolidWorks, or something a bit more robust? Did CFD result in any revisions/optimizations? Or was there just 'analysis' with results that passed muster?

Also, since there are images with varying logos here, is it up to the customer to, say, choose which logo variant they want, should they prefer one company's branding over the other's?

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

Also, since there are images with varying logos here, is it up to the customer to, say, choose which logo variant they want, should they prefer one company's branding over the other's?

VF Engineering has their own branded model, and CSF has it's own as well. Pricing is the same from either company.. Customers are able to choose whichever they prefer.

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by CSF Cooling

VF Engineering has their own branded model, and CSF has it's own as well. Pricing is the same from either company.. Customers are able to choose whichever they prefer.

It's an ethical choice. CSF has never deleted any post that seemed to demonstrate a commitment to honesty and customer transparency, have they? Otherwise then I'd have to choose based on some other criterion...

Glad I can get a CSF-branded one when the time comes. Combined with a bigger heat exchanger, I'd imagine this would do great things for IAT.

Has there by any chance been testing with IAT improvements with this coupled with any other brand's aftermarket front-mounted heat exchanger?

[packetpilot]

Also, if you could kindly either state that you decline to answer my CFD question, or answer it, that'd be pretty great, as opposed to simply passing over it without mention. Thanks!

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

Also, if you could kindly either state that you decline to answer my CFD question, or answer it, that'd be pretty great, as opposed to simply passing over it without mention. Thanks!

Didn't answer because the designing of the product was done by VF, we are the manufacturer - so I don't have the exact answer for you. I do know that we did optimize a few things in a design change after the initial prototype we debuted at SEMA. I'll leave it to VF to answer the question once they see the post.. Sorry for not clairfying.

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

Can you elaborate? CFD analysis via FlowSim in SolidWorks, or something a bit more robust? Did CFD result in any revisions/optimizations? Or was there just 'analysis' with results that passed muster?

Also, since there are images with varying logos here, is it up to the customer to, say, choose which logo variant they want, should they prefer one company's branding over the other's?

There's multiple stages of the development process, which absolutely did include numerous revisions in order to achieve the desired results.

In this case we started with a 3D model of the OEM unit as a benchmark. From there we look to optimize the size of the core to maximize cooling capabilities, and then we use CFD analysis to identify areas with potential turbulence and make changes to the design accordingly.

All of the 3D scanning, Solidworks (Flowsim) modeling, 3D printing of the prototypes, and real world testing of the physical product was completed in house at VF Engineering. Flowsim was convenient and effective as it's native to Solidworks and more than sufficient for our needs.

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

Flowsim was convenient and effective as it's native to Solidworks and more than sufficient for our needs.

Much appreciated. Coming from the aerospace world where flowsim was used sometimes for internal parts, and harder-core tools (fun3d and overflow from NASA) were used for OML and airfoils etc., I'm always curious where the line is drawn.

The looks of the part alone make it somewhat obvious that someone was paying attention to keeping flow laminar. 😍

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

Much appreciated. Coming from the aerospace world where flowsim was used sometimes for internal parts, and harder-core tools (fun3d and overflow from NASA) were used for OML and airfoils etc., I'm always curious where the line is drawn.

The looks of the part alone make it somewhat obvious that someone was paying attention to keeping flow laminar. 😍

Thanks!

There's also some interesting/functional design elements that you can't
see in any of the above images that make it unique compared to other
previously existing options.

It's likely that we'll discuss those elements at a later point in time as it's
equally a marketing opportunity as it is a competitive advantage.

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

Thanks!

There's also some interesting/functional design elements that you can't
see in any of the above images that make it unique compared to other
previously existing options.

It's likely that we'll discuss those elements at a later point in time as it's
equally a marketing opportunity as it is a competitive advantage.

I like hearing about those things because I've only seen one instance where a manufacturer gives me what I'd call an "engirection" with highly technical insights into what's going on behind the scenes from an engineering perspective.

Sometimes splashing some secret sauce is worth more marketing points than trade secret infractions. Hoping to see more of that.

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

I like hearing about those things because I've only seen one instance where a manufacturer gives me what I'd call an "engirection" with highly technical insights into what's going on behind the scenes from an engineering perspective.

Sometimes splashing some secret sauce is worth more marketing points than trade secret infractions. Hoping to see more of that.

To go along with the picture of the pressure air-side fin that I shared late last week - here is a close-up of the staggered turbulated fin on the water side. Opening is 2mm tall, and is a square fin rather than a serpentine fin (pointed) for maximum surface area contact and heat transfer from the pressure air into the water before entering the engine.

[ninekrpm]

interested to see some data here...looking forward to user feedback as well.

[schnell1982]

Received my CSF intercooler
Cant wait to get it installed soon. Already have the CSF "race" front heat exchange installed.

[MPOOR]

Originally Posted by schnell1982

Received my CSF intercooler
Cant wait to get it installed soon. Already have the CSF "race" front heat exchange installed.

Any after thoughts?

Any noticeble change after the installation?

[shahano]

Can someone explain to me a little more about the difference between the top mounted and the front mounted? Trying to see which one is the right option for me

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Frank M3 NJ

i like game changers

#rivercard

[AllMyBMsAreDoubleYous]

Originally Posted by shahano

Can someone explain to me a little more about the difference between the top mounted and the front mounted? Trying to see which one is the right option for me

The front-mounted heat exchanger cools the water that flows to the top-mounted intercooler, which uses the water cooled by the FMHE to cool the charge air.

The two are components of the same system, aimed at bringing/keeping charge air temps down. FMHE cools water with air, TMIC cools air with water.

Make sense?

As far as which option is "right" for you, have you been monitoring IAT? Right for what sort of application?

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by shahano

Can someone explain to me a little more about the difference between the top mounted and the front mounted? Trying to see which one is the right option for me

The top mount is the Charge Cooler.
The charge cooler uses water to draw the heat out of the charged air prior
to entering the engine, effectively lowering your Intake Air Temperatures.
Lower IAT's yield more more power; or during already ideal operating
conditions, more consistent power as it maintains the lowest possible
temperatures.

The front mount is the Heat Exchanger.
The heat exchanger cools down the water that circulates trough the charge
cooler. It's essentially the radiator for the air-to-water charge cooling
system. Upgrading the heat exchanger creates a quicker recovery time in
cooling the warming water.

Most people will start with the heat exchanger as it's the less expensive of
the two. For customers in warmer environments, or those who will be
pulling heavy track duty, you will want to upgrade both.

[MasterP]

Top mount is so ugly though with those logos. I realize it's under the hood but jeez it's tacky. It conjures the "VTEC inside" stickers from back in the day.

Are they or do they plan to make a cover?

[Mikecom32]

Originally Posted by MasterP

Top mount is so ugly though with those logos. I realize it's under the hood but jeez it's tacky. It conjures the "VTEC inside" stickers from back in the day.

Are they or do they plan to make a cover?

Agreed, not big on the huge logo.

[Bashar368]

any dyno results?

[shahano]

I live in a warm environment in the Summer and drift my car alot (not on the streets of course), we have a local track which is at 9000 ft.
Should I start with the top or the front mounted?