CCBs on Track - Feedback Collection

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

This is subjective, but my impressions were that CCB offers decreased unsprung weight and better heat resistance/dissipation. Braking force and the resultant distance, at optimum operating temps, are equivalent.

Personally, as a privateer track rat with a limited budget, I would opt for steel brakes on this F8x platform. It's been well matched for the weight of the car. I can replace components atba cheaper cost than the CCB system. Which in the final calculation, leads me with the opinion that the Carbon ceramics are NOT superior to the steel brakes.

Price is subjective.. real word experience shows CCB's operating fine even at 900 degrees....

Stock pads will be melting at 900 degrees

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

Price is subjective.. real word experience shows CCB's operating fine even at 900 degrees....

Stock pads will be melting at 900 degrees

So in a world where track pads do not exist, the CCBs are superior.

You agree then, that for street use there is zero difference? Because you are not getting to 900F on the street

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

So in a world where track pads do not exist, the CCBs are superior.

You agree then, that for street use there is zero difference? Because you are not getting to 900F on the street

youre not comparing apples to apples when comparing stock CCB and upgraded track pads/whatever

apples to apples would be take a CCB car off the showroom to the track and a nonCCB car off the showroom to track

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

youre not comparing apples to apples when comparing stock CCB and upgraded track pads/whatever

apples to apples would be take a CCB car off the showroom to the track and a nonCCB car off the showroom to track

And if you compare apples to apples without changing pads, there is zero difference on the street

So your entire argument has boiled down to 'at the track CCB is better if you cannot change pads'

No problem, I agree with you

[evanevery]

I wonder how many of the heavily opinionated folks in this thread have serious seat time running BOTH steel brakes (with comp pads) and CCB's on an actual race track...

Anyway, the OP asked for opinions - not an argument. Perhaps this is too subjective a question for folks to handle without getting agitated...

"Better" means different things to different people.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I wonder how many of the heavily opinionated folks in this thread have serious seat time running BOTH steel brakes (with comp pads) and CCB's on an actual race track...

Anyway, the OP asked for opinions - not an argument. Perhaps this is too subjective a question for folks to handle without getting agitated...

"Better" means different things to different people.

It is subjective and false statements like the one below that gets the debates going:

Originally Posted by evanevery

...I can tell you that no steel brake setup is going to perform as well...

Let's look at the lap time thread and see how many members with CCB vs irons are getting the fastest laps at the various tracks. If the CCBs are that much better, we should see a trend.

I agree though, we should keep the thread on the topic of CCB feedback from track use.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Let's look at the lap time thread and see how many members with CCB vs irons are getting the fastest laps at the various tracks.

Having CCB's at the the track isn't going to magically get you the fastest lap times. If all it took was slapping on a set of CCB's everyone would have them. There is much more to turning the very best lap times at a track than just the choice of brakes. ...and some of the better drivers may not have deep enough pockets to afford them. ...and that's OK.

However, CCB's on track can IMPROVE an individual driver and car's lap times. They simply might not have the fastest car on the track, or the very best technique, but I expect they could help improve their lap times.

Just out of curiosity... How many days do you have in an F8X on a race track with CCB's? Which tracks? By comparison, how many hours do you have on track with an F8X with steel brakes?

Its rather pointless to argue the track performance of each type of brake if you haven't actually run BOTH on the track. You might very well be happy with your steel brakes, and that's OK. But to say that CCB's don't offer any track benefits without actually spending a couple of days with them on the track would be rather unqualified...

I have substantial seat time with both...at speed on real race tracks (VIR, RA, ACC, and the Ring) and I much prefer CCB's for their initial bite and linear, fadeless, braking profile. Take it for what its worth, that's just my experience and my opinion and I think that was what the OP was asking for.

I still can't say whether the price justifies the performance though as I have not yet had to replace my front rotors. When that happens, it will be easier to make that assessment...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Having CCB's at the the track isn't going to magically get you the fastest lap times. If all it took was slapping on a set of CCB's everyone would have them. There is much more to turning the very best lap times at a track than just the choice of brakes. ...and some of the better drivers may not have deep enough pockets to afford them. ...and that's OK.

However, CCB's on track can IMPROVE an individual driver and car's lap times. They simply might not have the fastest car on the track, or the very best technique, but I expect they could help improve their lap times.

Just out of curiosity... How many days do you have in an F8X on a race track with CCB's? Which tracks? By comparison, how many hours do you have on track with an F8X with steel brakes?

Its rather pointless to argue the track performance of each type of brake if you haven't actually run BOTH on the track. You might very well be happy with your steel brakes, and that's OK. But to say that CCB's don't offer any track benefits without actually spending a couple of days with them on the track would be rather unqualified...

I have substantial seat time with both...at speed on real race tracks (VIR, RA, ACC, and the Ring) and I much prefer CCB's for their initial bite and linear, fadeless, braking profile. Take it for what its worth, that's just my experience and my opinion and I think that was what the OP was asking for.

I still can't say whether the price justifies the performance though as I have not yet had to replace my front rotors. When that happens, it will be easier to make that assessment...

This is a much more sensible post, as it clearly expresses subjective opinions.

I probably have over 80 hours of track time on my iron brake M4. But to your point, I have never driven a CCB M3/4 on track. I only have limited CCB track experience with a 911TT, an F458 and a Huracan.

I am not saying that CCB do not offer "any" track benefits, I just dont believe they will make a substantial difference in performance (performance here is all about lap times). I do agree that CCB can improve lap times for some drivers because they feel very robust and can certainly improve confidence. I however don't believe they will make a fast driver any faster. Based on the multiple posts I read, it seems that the majority of avid trackers on this forum agree with this, so it is not only my single opinion.

It is not only a question of "affordability", it is also a question of spending wisely. I know quite a few track buddies that can certainly afford to track CCBs (some are rich enough to afford their own private jets), they however still elect to run iron rotors because it makes better economical sense.

[AY4EVR]

Wanted to share some insight/opinion on this, even though I’m getting in late.

I bought my M3 used, and it came with the CCB setup. I agree, it’s really nice. Reading all these posts made me nervous about tracking these rotors, though. So I grabbed a set of the Racing Brake iron conversion rotors, the only company I have been able to find that makes this size and in exact-fit. I ran them at Mid-Ohio with Carbotech track pads and everything worked great. I did not feel like I needed to change the brake booster either. I plan to only do a couple track days per year, so when using the car as DD, the CCB’s go back on to preserve the track pads. That way, the CCBs will last the life of the car (relatively), and I feel that for the slight disadvantage of increased unsprung mass at each corner, extra rotor $$ investment, and a little extra time spent swapping rotors along with the pads, I have the best of all worlds.

Open to opinions.

[ki_daniel]

I tracked my CCB ZCP at MSR Cresson in Ft Worth, Tx last month and they felt awesome first two sessions!

Compared to my old track E46, the brakes bite down very nicely.

However, by the time I got on the third session, I noticed significant brake fade so I pulled off and cooled it down with a couple laps on the skid pad.

I guess they don’t put racing brake fluid in the reservoir or the brake lines need to be upgraded.

I checked my brake pads later that week and to my surprise....still have well over 60% pad life!! (26k miles)
Rotors look perfectly fine.

I’ll be replacing the pads soon with a fluid flush.

Also looking for steel options as an alternative for track days, but I love them for daily as there’s zero brake dust!