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      02-02-2017, 12:47 PM   #89
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Do you have a picture? What do you consider excessive?
Should be something like this.

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      02-02-2017, 01:14 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
Should be something like this.

Time for a new pair that is for sure!
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      02-14-2018, 09:07 PM   #91
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I just put PFC08s on for the first time yesterday for my track day on Friday but they are scraping on the rotors even when I'm not braking. I'm assuming it's because I haven't bedded them properly yet but it's almost worrying. I can hear the scrape and in fact can almost slightly feel it on the steering wheel too. It's coming from all four corners. Never had this type of issue with RS29s so just want to know if this is normal or not.

Here's the video:

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      02-15-2018, 01:12 PM   #92
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Anyone experiencing the dust seals cracking from track use ?
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      02-15-2018, 02:43 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLOSS M View Post
Anyone experiencing the dust seals cracking from track use ?
Pretty normal.
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      03-04-2018, 06:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I just put PFC08s on for the first time yesterday for my track day on Friday but they are scraping on the rotors even when I'm not braking. I'm assuming it's because I haven't bedded them properly yet but it's almost worrying. I can hear the scrape and in fact can almost slightly feel it on the steering wheel too. It's coming from all four corners. Never had this type of issue with RS29s so just want to know if this is normal or not.

Here's the video:

Did you resolve the problem?
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      03-04-2018, 07:47 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4journey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I just put PFC08s on for the first time yesterday for my track day on Friday but they are scraping on the rotors even when I'm not braking. I'm assuming it's because I haven't bedded them properly yet but it's almost worrying. I can hear the scrape and in fact can almost slightly feel it on the steering wheel too. It's coming from all four corners. Never had this type of issue with RS29s so just want to know if this is normal or not.

Here's the video:

Did you resolve the problem?
I think it was because the pads were brand new and needed to be bedded. After the first session on the track, they were fine.
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      03-30-2018, 04:38 PM   #96
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Guys, I've just installed pfc08 on my m4. Just been out for bedding and it's awesome. The only thing annoying is the clunk in reverse/stop and forward/stop... it's only once and continuous stops are fine. Seems like the pads are shifting each forward and reverse. Do you guys fit the backing plates/shims? I couldn't get them off my stock pads.

I've read somewhere the pagid rs29's are the same.(not sure if they come with backing plates/shims)

Would the clunks reduce the life of the piston seals?
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      03-31-2018, 07:43 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4journey View Post
Guys, I've just installed pfc08 on my m4. Just been out for bedding and it's awesome. The only thing annoying is the clunk in reverse/stop and forward/stop... it's only once and continuous stops are fine. Seems like the pads are shifting each forward and reverse. Do you guys fit the backing plates/shims? I couldn't get them off my stock pads.

I've read somewhere the pagid rs29's are the same.(not sure if they come with backing plates/shims)

Would the clunks reduce the life of the piston seals?
Clunking is normal for most racing pads.
And no, it does not reduce life of seals, heat does.
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      01-02-2019, 10:54 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4journey View Post
Guys, I've just installed pfc08 on my m4. Just been out for bedding and it's awesome. The only thing annoying is the clunk in reverse/stop and forward/stop... it's only once and continuous stops are fine. Seems like the pads are shifting each forward and reverse. Do you guys fit the backing plates/shims? I couldn't get them off my stock pads.

I've read somewhere the pagid rs29's are the same.(not sure if they come with backing plates/shims)

Would the clunks reduce the life of the piston seals?
You are getting clunking because you did not pry the backing plate off your stock pads. without the backing plate you will have "play" in the caliper... Order new backing plates and your clunk should go away.

For anyone reading this thread and thinking about buying RS29, save your money. These are literally street pads that aren't even as good as stock pads. Per Pagid (http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Pub...ights_2018.pdf), these pads have a friction coefficient rating of .4-.45 Mu. That makes them an FF rated pad. My stock pads were rated GF which means they have MORE cold bit than these Pagids and they give nothing away at 600f which is where most cars will be at during HPDE. BMW's factory pads are a performance pad and most of the moderate aftermarket pads out there are a downgrade! I highly doubt anyone in this thread is actually "racing" either to require 3000f "race" pads. 99% of cars I see with race pads are screeching around the track eating rotors because the pads are too cold.

Since the comparison is to PFC-08, I will add that they are without a doubt a higher friction true "endurance race pad" compared to the Pagid RSL29's. The PFC-08 will screech a bit when cold (<50f) but they actually have decent cold bite for street use. The flat torque curve of the PFC-08 is a characteristic of an endurance branded pad vs a "peaky" "race/sprint/rally" pad. Also, all pads drag on the rotor at all times. There is no true "retractive" force to pull the pads away from the rotor. PFC-08 make more noise especially when new with "tall" pads. After a good rain they make a ton of noise as the pads actually rust really easily.

If you want to go with a comparable Pagid pad to PFC-08 you should be looking at something like the RSL1 and not the street pads like RSL29's. RSL29 would be more on par with being called a OE replacement pad. Genuine BMW pads will cost you about the same but OEM branded pads will be significantly cheaper replacements.
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      01-16-2019, 10:56 PM   #99
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Stock M3 CS Pads

The stock pads and fluid impress me after 4 track days. For an 80/20 street/track experience what are recommended pads?
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      01-18-2019, 06:30 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
You are getting clunking because you did not pry the backing plate off your stock pads. without the backing plate you will have "play" in the caliper... Order new backing plates and your clunk should go away.

For anyone reading this thread and thinking about buying RS29, save your money. These are literally street pads that aren't even as good as stock pads. Per Pagid (http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Pub...ights_2018.pdf), these pads have a friction coefficient rating of .4-.45 Mu. That makes them an FF rated pad. My stock pads were rated GF which means they have MORE cold bit than these Pagids and they give nothing away at 600f which is where most cars will be at during HPDE. BMW's factory pads are a performance pad and most of the moderate aftermarket pads out there are a downgrade! I highly doubt anyone in this thread is actually "racing" either to require 3000f "race" pads. 99% of cars I see with race pads are screeching around the track eating rotors because the pads are too cold.

Since the comparison is to PFC-08, I will add that they are without a doubt a higher friction true "endurance race pad" compared to the Pagid RSL29's. The PFC-08 will screech a bit when cold (<50f) but they actually have decent cold bite for street use. The flat torque curve of the PFC-08 is a characteristic of an endurance branded pad vs a "peaky" "race/sprint/rally" pad. Also, all pads drag on the rotor at all times. There is no true "retractive" force to pull the pads away from the rotor. PFC-08 make more noise especially when new with "tall" pads. After a good rain they make a ton of noise as the pads actually rust really easily.

If you want to go with a comparable Pagid pad to PFC-08 you should be looking at something like the RSL1 and not the street pads like RSL29's. RSL29 would be more on par with being called a OE replacement pad. Genuine BMW pads will cost you about the same but OEM branded pads will be significantly cheaper replacements.
A lot of misinformation in this post.

Clunking is normal with track pads as they are designed to fit loosly inside the caliper when cold to ensure they remain free to move in extreme hot operating conditions. There's nothing that needs to be "pried off".

I will completely wear down a front stock set of pads in less than one track day while the Pagid RSL-29 will last me 4-5 days. Further, the stock pad needs a fair bit more management than the RSL-29 to avoid uneven pad deposit. That's from experience. So I am not sure on what your above statement is based on.

The stock pads are inadequate for track use, it's even specified in the M3/4 owner's manual. Further, I remember reading that BMW's own upgrade M-Performance brake pad recommended by BMW for track use is made by Pagid and is very similar to the RSL-29.

The RSL-1 are not that different than the RSL-1, I usually run a combination of RSL-29 in front with RSL-1 in the rear which improves stability under braking with slightly more rear bias. The RSL-1 will offer better initial bite at the expense of faster wear with the PF08 fitting somewhere in between. The RSL-29 offer sufficient hot friction to maximize braking with street and r-compound tires. They however might not with race slicks.
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      01-18-2019, 01:43 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
A lot of misinformation in this post.

Clunking is normal with track pads as they are designed to fit loosely inside the caliper when cold to ensure they remain free to move in extreme hot operating conditions. There's nothing that needs to be "pried off".

of RS-29 in front with RSL-1 in the rear which improves stability under braking with slightly more rear bias. The RSL-1 will offer better initial bite at the expense of faster wear with the PF08 fitting somewhere in between. The RS-29 offer sufficient hot friction to maximize braking with street and r-compound tires. They however might not with race slicks.
I base my comments on actual braking coefficient numbers published for both pads. You're basing your comments off pure personal experience and conjecture.

You just said it yourself. RS-29 are basically M performance pads which come stock on some cars. There is nothing special about them. That was my point. You just said yourself they pair well to street tires too.

PFC-08 are on another level from RS-29. PFC-08/PFC-01 are used on cars competing in PWC with slicks. They are an endurance pad though and the actual brake torque they generate isn't much higher than a stock pad. Big difference between them is effective operating range. If you need more aggressive pads than a full blown race cars use to do some HPDE then you're doing it wrong. Stock pads with brake ducts to keep them cool will net you the same performance as aggressive track pads that usually run too cold at HPDE and eat rotors (all teat screeching you hear). That's just my 2c.

And yes, 100%, clunking usually comes from not carrying the backing plate over from the stock pads. Go check for yourself... aftermarket "race" pads almost always having an asterisk next to them to that they do not include backing plates:



See the silver plate that comes with the back of these OE replacement pads? That's a backing plate that RS-29 pads do not come with:



I only said "pry" because the stock backing plates are usually glued to the pad or even seized from rust/heat. Takes a bit of work to remove them from the stock pads. Which is why people usually fail to transfer them to their new pads...
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      01-18-2019, 03:54 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
I base my comments on actual braking coefficient numbers published for both pads. You're basing your comments off pure personal experience and conjecture.

You just said it yourself. RS-29 are basically M performance pads which come stock on some cars. There is nothing special about them. That was my point. You just said yourself they pair well to street tires too.

PFC-08 are on another level from RS-29. PFC-08/PFC-01 are used on cars competing in PWC with slicks. They are an endurance pad though and the actual brake torque they generate isn't much higher than a stock pad. Big difference between them is effective operating range. If you need more aggressive pads than a full blown race cars use to do some HPDE then you're doing it wrong. Stock pads with brake ducts to keep them cool will net you the same performance as aggressive track pads that usually run too cold at HPDE and eat rotors (all teat screeching you hear). That's just my 2c.

And yes, 100%, clunking usually comes from not carrying the backing plate over from the stock pads. Go check for yourself... aftermarket "race" pads almost always having an asterisk next to them to that they do not include backing plates:



See the silver plate that comes with the back of these OE replacement pads? That's a backing plate that RS-29 pads do not come with:



I only said "pry" because the stock backing plates are usually glued to the pad or even seized from rust/heat. Takes a bit of work to remove them from the stock pads. Which is why people usually fail to transfer them to their new pads...
First, the M3/4 M-Performnce pars do not come stock. They’re not even available in North America.

Second, coefficient of friction is only one parameter amongst many to consider when assessing pad performance.

And if RS29 are not enough for you for HPDE, maybe you are doing it wrong by over-braking .

I am not sure I follow you when you talk “baking plate”. By definition, all pads have a backing plate on which the pad material is fixed to. What the stock pads have is an adhesive layer fixed on the back of the backing plate to prevent squealing. The reason they don’t slap is mostly due to their snug fit. The adhesive by itself would not be enough to prevent slap with loosely fit pad.
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      01-18-2019, 03:56 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I am not sure I follow you when you talk “baking plate”. By definition, all pads have a backing plate on which the pad material is fixed to. What the stock pads have is an adhesive layer fixed on the back of the backing plate to prevent squealing. The reason they don’t slap is mostly due to their snug fit. The adhesive by itself would not be enough to prevent slap with loosely fit pad.
I just showed you pictures of M3 OE replacement pads and M3 RS29 pads .

That is a metal plate on the OE pads in the picture. Not adhesive. Are you saying that metal plate (whatever you want to call it) doesn't exist? You see how it wraps around the edge of the pad? That is what takes up the slack that will result in pad knock if you don't reuse or replace the plate. It's not needed JUST for noise reduction. I am sure it helps keeps your pistons cooler too albeit not as well as a ti shim some people stack in there.
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      01-18-2019, 05:31 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
I just showed you pictures of M3 OE replacement pads and M3 RS29 pads .

That is a metal plate on the OE pads in the picture. Not adhesive. Are you saying that metal plate (whatever you want to call it) doesn't exist? You see how it wraps around the edge of the pad? That is what takes up the slack that will result in pad knock if you don't reuse or replace the plate. It's not needed JUST for noise reduction. I am sure it helps keeps your pistons cooler too albeit not as well as a ti shim some people stack in there.
OK, now I better understand what you mean. Those are however not OE pads you are showing. On the OE pads, the additional plate you talk about is black. And yes, you are correct, it likely contributes to make the pad fit more snuggly in the caliper to prevent slap, but it also has an adhesive applied on it to prevent squeal. These plates are an integral part of the pad though, and are not meant to be transferred to replacement pads. The OE pads also have the counter weight to minimize vibrations and ensuing noise. All things that are not really needed on a track pad.
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      01-30-2019, 11:50 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
You are getting clunking because you did not pry the backing plate off your stock pads. without the backing plate you will have "play" in the caliper... Order new backing plates and your clunk should go away.

For anyone reading this thread and thinking about buying RS29, save your money. These are literally street pads that aren't even as good as stock pads. Per Pagid (http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Pub...ights_2018.pdf), these pads have a friction coefficient rating of .4-.45 Mu. That makes them an FF rated pad. My stock pads were rated GF which means they have MORE cold bit than these Pagids and they give nothing away at 600f which is where most cars will be at during HPDE. BMW's factory pads are a performance pad and most of the moderate aftermarket pads out there are a downgrade! I highly doubt anyone in this thread is actually "racing" either to require 3000f "race" pads. 99% of cars I see with race pads are screeching around the track eating rotors because the pads are too cold.

Since the comparison is to PFC-08, I will add that they are without a doubt a higher friction true "endurance race pad" compared to the Pagid RSL29's. The PFC-08 will screech a bit when cold (<50f) but they actually have decent cold bite for street use. The flat torque curve of the PFC-08 is a characteristic of an endurance branded pad vs a "peaky" "race/sprint/rally" pad. Also, all pads drag on the rotor at all times. There is no true "retractive" force to pull the pads away from the rotor. PFC-08 make more noise especially when new with "tall" pads. After a good rain they make a ton of noise as the pads actually rust really easily.

If you want to go with a comparable Pagid pad to PFC-08 you should be looking at something like the RSL1 and not the street pads like RSL29's. RSL29 would be more on par with being called a OE replacement pad. Genuine BMW pads will cost you about the same but OEM branded pads will be significantly cheaper replacements.
The OEM Pad will become soft and will smear itself on the rotor at a track like Laguna Seca if you drive in under 1:50. RS29 will not do that and will provide consistent braking. The clunking noise on the RS29 is due to the fact that it doesn't have the "stoppers" that the OEM pad has. Hence, it will move back and forth inside the caliper. It does get stopped by the pin, but there is still a decent amount of slop that results in the clunks.
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      01-31-2019, 08:33 AM   #106
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Quote:
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The OEM Pad will become soft and will smear itself on the rotor at a track like Laguna Seca if you drive in under 1:50. RS29 will not do that and will provide consistent braking. The clunking noise on the RS29 is due to the fact that it doesn't have the "stoppers" that the OEM pad has. Hence, it will move back and forth inside the caliper. It does get stopped by the pin, but there is still a decent amount of slop that results in the clunks.
Those ears that protrude off the pads aren't "stoppers." Like CanAutM3 said, they are counter weights to minimize vibrations and noise. They do not keep the pad in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
OK, now I better understand what you mean. Those are however not OE pads you are showing. On the OE pads, the additional plate you talk about is black. And yes, you are correct, it likely contributes to make the pad fit more snuggly in the caliper to prevent slap, but it also has an adhesive applied on it to prevent squeal.
Transfer the plate and you won't have knock. You're right that it is an "integral" part of the pad which is why it needs to be transferred to the aftermarket pads... They remove pretty easily if you can get something thin between the plate and the pad. Just don't bend them. The rubber padding on the back of the metal plate is there for noise cancellation, correct. And, the plate is glued to the pad for the same reason. Shims are a part of every brake pad on the market. I always glue shims to the pad using something like "CRC disc brake quiet" to prevent squeal. I then "glue" my Ti shims right on top of the stock backing plate/shim/whatever you want to call it using the same stuff.
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      01-31-2019, 12:06 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Those ears that protrude off the pads aren't "stoppers." Like CanAutM3 said, they are counter weights to minimize vibrations and noise. They do not keep the pad in place.
They actually keep the pad sort of in place. If you have ever installed the pads without the "ears", you will find out that the pad is free to fully slide inside the caliper and can drop all the way towards the center of the rotor. If the pad has "ears", then it will more or less stay in the same place and will align with the retaining pin much easier.
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