Euro Delivery in the Dead of Winter

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by hinckley

At that time of year, snow tires are a legal requirement in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Originally Posted by afadeev

The first sentence is false - there is NO LEGAL requirement for snow tires in Germany for any particular time of the year.
There is a legal requirement for driving on weather appropriate tires (see my and others' posts from Nov'14 researching this matter). Thus, if there is now or ice on the ground you WANT to be on snow tires, and the if you skid off the road on summer rubber, you will get both a towing bill, and a ticket (for being an idiot).

My words were wrong. afadeev's words and interpretation are correct. It is not "snow tires" that are mandatory, it is "weather appropriate tires".

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by hinckley

My words were wrong. afadeev's words and interpretation are correct. It is not "snow tires" that are mandatory, it is "weather appropriate tires".

M+S rated.

[CosmosMpower]

I'm prob going to rent a car from BMW Welt (with AWD) rather than driving my M2C. Can someone recommend a weekend itinerary? I'm taking delivery of my car in Jan 18th (Fri) and will rent a car Fri, Sat and return to Munich on Sunday (20th) to fly out Monday 21st.

Looking for a short drive somewhere in Europe that has something interesting to see/do for Fri, Sat, Sun.

[hinckley]

Are you more interested in sightseeing or driving?

You may consider a loop something like . . .
Munich > Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castle) > Garmisch-Partenkirchen (’36 Olympics) > Innsbruck > Kitzbuhel (think Aspen) > Berchtesgarden (Hitler’s retreat) > Salzburg > Munich.

Going the fastest route, that loop is only about 375 miles, so it gives you plenty of time to get off the beaten track over two or three days. From Munich to Fussen, there's a nice German country road, but from there to Salzberg, you can find great small Alpine roads pretty much the whole way. You can just take the motorway from Salzberg back to Munich. It’s only about 1.5 hours, so depending on your departure schedule, you may even be able to do that last leg on Monday morning.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Are you more interested in sightseeing or driving?

You may consider a loop something like . . .
Munich > Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castle) > Garmisch-Partenkirchen (’36 Olympics) > Innsbruck > Kitzbuhel (think Aspen) > Berchtesgarden (Hitler’s retreat) > Salzburg > Munich.

Going the fastest route, that loop is only about 375 miles, so it gives you plenty of time to get off the beaten track over two or three days. From Munich to Fussen, there's a nice German country road, but from there to Salzberg, you can find great small Alpine roads pretty much the whole way. You can just take the motorway from Salzberg back to Munich. It’s only about 1.5 hours, so depending on your departure schedule, you may even be able to do that last leg on Monday morning.

I'd guess sightseeing/eating since the driving prob won't be good at that time of year due to snow?

I'd like to hit a few cool spots in basically a weekend worth of driving but I don't know what will be good to see/accessible in the winter.

I appreciate the info on the loop. How are the road conditions in Jan? Are they passable with M+S tires and or AWD? If you have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

In October 2015 (no snow) we did Munich, Berchtesgaden (didn't go into Austria due to refugee lines at border), Stuttgart, Nurburgring, Belgium (Spa Francorchamps), Frankfurt and back to Munich but that was a week long trip.

This time I'm thinking:

Thur- Munich, BMW Museum/Welt
Fri- Take delivery of car, rent a car and go to Salzburg Austria (is it worth it or skip this?)
Sat- ?
Sun- Head back to Munich

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Are you more interested in sightseeing or driving?

You may consider a loop something like . . .
Munich > Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castle) > Garmisch-Partenkirchen (’36 Olympics) > Innsbruck > Kitzbuhel (think Aspen) > Berchtesgarden (Hitler’s retreat) > Salzburg > Munich.

"Hitler's retreat" (the Eagles Nest) is closed when there is snow on the access road, because there is a shuttle bus from the parking lot at road level up to the top. Our first Euro Delivery was on May 12, 2011 and we were unable to go to the Eagles Nest the following week as it was still closed due to snow. The route you suggested is pretty much the first part of that Euro Delivery trip, only we went to Salzburg after Fussen and then went backwards through your list, ending with Garmisch-Partenkirchen and then on to Switzerland.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I'd guess sightseeing/eating since the driving prob won't be good at that time of year due to snow?

I'd like to hit a few cool spots in basically a weekend worth of driving but I don't know what will be good to see/accessible in the winter.

I appreciate the info on the loop. How are the road conditions in Jan? Are they passable with M+S tires and or AWD? If you have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

This time I'm thinking:
Thur- Munich, BMW Museum/Welt
Fri- Take delivery of car, rent a car and go to Salzburg Austria (is it worth it or skip this?)
Sat- ?
Sun- Head back to Munich

I don't think foodies think too much about that part of the world. Salzburg is OK. Good for a destination and an overnight stay, but not all that interesting imo. There were four guys on my first ED. Two got off the plane and went straight into Munich for sightseeing. Another friend and me went straight to pick up my car. We drove to Salzburg for lunch and then drove back to Munich to meet up with our other friends. We then did a whole day trip the next day through the mountains, ending up back in Salzburg for the night. It was the route that mattered that day.

I wouldn't worry about snow at all with AWD and the right tires. And we're talking Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Trust me, they take care of their roads! Since you didn't spend too much time in the mountains on your last trip, I'd consider heading south, up into the Alps. The scenery is spectacular there, especially with snow on the ground.

My ED trips usually have only a basic plan. But I stop a lot along the way and talk to locals who often give me ideas that I wouldn't have known about. It's part of the fun and adventure for me. On one of my spring EDs, I was trying to stay off the motorways and found that all the smaller mountain passes were still closed on my way to Zermatt in Switzerland. But some locals told me about a drive-on drive-off train over a small mountain pass that was one of the highlights of the trip. So since you don't have a lot of time, maybe you want to meander a bit. Kitzbuhel is a real favorite of mine (I'm a skier and into that scene). It may be a good destination for one of your nights.

I've not done it yet, but another alternative may be to head west towards Baden-Baden in the Black Forest. I know there are some great roads around there that may be fun in any vehicle and it's doable in the short time that you have.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I don't think foodies think too much about that part of the world. Salzburg is OK. Good for a destination and an overnight stay, but not all that interesting imo. There were four guys on my first ED. Two got off the plane and went straight into Munich for sightseeing. Another friend and me went straight to pick up my car. We drove to Salzburg for lunch and then drove back to Munich to meet up with our other friends. We then did a whole day trip the next day through the mountains, ending up back in Salzburg for the night. It was the route that mattered that day.

I wouldn't worry about snow at all with AWD and the right tires. And we're talking Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Trust me, they take care of their roads! Since you didn't spend too much time in the mountains on your last trip, I'd consider heading south, up into the Alps. The scenery is spectacular there, especially with snow on the ground.

My ED trips usually have only a basic plan. But I stop a lot along the way and talk to locals who often give me ideas that I wouldn't have known about. It's part of the fun and adventure for me. On one of my spring EDs, I was trying to stay off the motorways and found that all the smaller mountain passes were still closed on my way to Zermatt in Switzerland. But some locals told me about a drive-on drive-off train over a small mountain pass that was one of the highlights of the trip. So since you don't have a lot of time, maybe you want to meander a bit. Kitzbuhel is a real favorite of mine (I'm a skier and into that scene). It may be a good destination for one of your nights.

I've not done it yet, but another alternative may be to head west towards Baden-Baden in the Black Forest. I know there are some great roads around there that may be fun in any vehicle and it's doable in the short time that you have.

I'm not into high end food or a foodie just like to try different things that I can't get at home in the states. Do you speak German or were there locals even in the smaller towns that speak English?

If my buddy wants to go to the Porsche/MB museum we may go to Stuttgart again. My last ED was basically all centered around car stuff (BMW Welt, MB, Porsche Museums, Ring, Spa) so I didn't do much of the mountain pass driving which would be cool to do this time.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

My last ED was basically all centered around car stuff (BMW Welt, MB, Porsche Museums, Ring, Spa) so I didn't do much of the mountain pass driving which would be cool to do this time.

Once the snow starts falling you're not going to be able to do any mountain pass driving. On two different Euro Deliveries during May (2011, 2016) most passes that we planned on driving were closed due to late snow.

The passes get "locked" and are impassable. This ADAC report from yesterday reports that most passes are already locked. The link is in German, but open the link in Chrome and it will auto-translate: https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/t...ymF05,EGELwA__.

There are numerous sites that report the status of European alpine passes and some have webcams. Here's a couple:

https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/v...alpenstrassen/

https://alpenpaesse.de/

If you want to ensure that passes are open, July or August would be the best months. However, during our last Euro Delivery in July this year, 3 of the 5 passes we drove in Switzerland were socked in with rain and fog. Fun days.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Do you speak German or were there locals even in the smaller towns that speak English?

Yes and yes. I speak enough German to get by pretty well especially ordering beer or wine. But you can almost always find someone who speaks English. If you can't, you'll be able to communicate with wild gestations that your buddy will video and save for a well-timed event in the future.

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Once the snow starts falling you're not going to be able to do any mountain pass driving. On two different Euro Deliveries during May (2011, 2016) most passes that we planned on driving were closed due to late snow.

I think you're right about the highest passes, but I think the lower German passes are all open and all but one of the Austrian passes is open.

I have similar experiences as you late in the season. Once a pass closes, it's closed until well into the spring. But afaik, most passes usually don't close until late-January or early-February. Real snow usually doesn't even begin to fall until January. But you can always find an open pass somewhere. It's part of the adventure and (depending on the sort of person you are) the fun. Remember, a place like Kitzbuhel is a huge ski resort and it's accessible by secondary roads all season.

In terms of the weather, it's always a crap shoot. Common sense - the top of any mountain can be in the clouds. But if you hit a beautiful clear day up there, you'll never forget it. Half full. Half empty. Depends on the person.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Yes and yes. I speak enough German to get by pretty well especially ordering beer or wine. But you can almost always find someone who speaks English. If you can't, you'll be able to communicate with wild gestations that your buddy will video and save for a well-timed event in the future.



I think you're right about the highest passes, but I think the lower German passes are all open and all but one of the Austrian passes is open.

I have similar experiences as you late in the season. Once a pass closes, it's closed until well into the spring. But afaik, most passes usually don't close until late-January or early-February. Real snow usually doesn't even begin to fall until January. But you can always find an open pass somewhere. It's part of the adventure and (depending on the sort of person you are) the fun. Remember, a place like Kitzbuhel is a huge ski resort and it's accessible by secondary roads all season.

In terms of the weather, it's always a crap shoot. Common sense - the top of any mountain can be in the clouds. But if you hit a beautiful clear day up there, you'll never forget it. Half full. Half empty. Depends on the person.

Great info. If the passes start to close does that South loop you mentioned earlier still make sense in general?

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Great info. If the passes start to close does that South loop you mentioned earlier still make sense in general?

I really believe so. I think most of the mountain passes will be open, but if I'm wrong, you will absolutely find an open route. After all, the local villages aren't snowed in for six months each year. So the worst case scenario is that instead of driving a small mountain road, you'll be driving a secondary road or a motorway. And on a route like that, you'll never be more than two hours from Munich via motorway. So you'll always have an escape route back if needed.

It's easy to obsess about these things (trust me, I know!), but for me, these trips are just adventures. You can't get in any real trouble and sometimes the uncertainty is half the fun.

Happy to share any other insights I may have . . .

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I really believe so. I think most of the mountain passes will be open, but if I'm wrong, you will absolutely find an open route. After all, the local villages aren't snowed in for six months each year. So the worst case scenario is that instead of driving a small mountain road, you'll be driving a secondary road or a motorway. And on a route like that, you'll never be more than two hours from Munich via motorway. So you'll always have an escape route back if needed.

It's easy to obsess about these things (trust me, I know!), but for me, these trips are just adventures. You can't get in any real trouble and sometimes the uncertainty is half the fun.

Happy to share any other insights I may have . . .

If you're ever in DFW I owe you a beer! It sounds like the right trip for me given I basically only have a weekend. Being within 2 hours of being back to Munich at any time is definitely a plus.

Any advice on how to book hotels etc if the route is uncertain? Prefer to stay in something more modern and private (i.e. no hostels) but still reasonably priced (under 200 a night USD)

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

If you're ever in DFW I owe you a beer! It sounds like the right trip for me given I basically only have a weekend. Being within 2 hours of being back to Munich at any time is definitely a plus.

Any advice on how to book hotels etc if the route is uncertain? Prefer to stay in something more modern and private (i.e. no hostels) but still reasonably priced (under 200 a night USD)

Hold off on that beer until you get back without getting stuck in a snowbank along some small Bavarian mountain pass!

I tend to use hotels.com for my bookings. There's a lot of ways to sort for exactly what you're looking for. Also, if you're not too much into planning, the Hotel Tonight app can have some incredible values for same day bookings.

What time do you think you'll be able to get out of Munich on Friday, and when do you need to drop the car off on Monday?

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Hold off on that beer until you get back without getting stuck in a snowbank along some small Bavarian mountain pass!

I tend to use hotels.com for my bookings. There's a lot of ways to sort for exactly what you're looking for. Also, if you're not too much into planning, the Hotel Tonight app can have some incredible values for same day bookings.

What time do you think you'll be able to get out of Munich on Friday, and when do you need to drop the car off on Monday?

I think the weekend rental rate for BMW on Demand is pickup 5 PM Friday, return by 5 PM Sunday. I may try and leave town a bit early since my delivery is around 10 AM so I'm thinking maybe after lunch on Fri and back by 5 PM Sunday to return the car, get some dinner in Munich.

I'll probably stay at a hotel near the airport Sun night so it's easy to get up and check in for my flight Mon AM. If i recall it's a good 30-40 min drive from the Munich airport to BMW Welt area.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I think the weekend rental rate for BMW on Demand is pickup 5 PM Friday, return by 5 PM Sunday. I may try and leave town a bit early since my delivery is around 10 AM so I'm thinking maybe after lunch on Fri and back by 5 PM Sunday to return the car, get some dinner in Munich.

I'll probably stay at a hotel near the airport Sun night so it's easy to get up and check in for my flight Mon AM. If i recall it's a good 30-40 min drive from the Munich airport to BMW Welt area.

If you get out of Munich earlier on Friday and do a loop like I had mentioned, you could spend your first night in Garmisch-Partenkirchen. It's about 120 miles, but that could take 4+ hours if you're meandering and stopping along the way. I think there's some nice ski chalet type of hotels there. Maybe get up early on Saturday, have breakfast in Innsbruck, lunch in Kitzbuhel and end up in Salzburg for the night. That's another 160 miles driving direct, but you'll find small mountains roads that'll be fun and can easily take the full day. And there's plenty of hotel and restaurant choices in Salzburg. Stay near the river if you can. It's then an easy drive to Munich on Sunday to get back there by 5.

Good luck. It'll be a great weekend adventure.

[hinckley]

One more thing . . . remember you need a "vignette" to drive legally on Austrian motorways. You can get them at any gas station near the border. €9 for a ten day sticker. They also have digital vignettes now that you can buy online once you have the license plate number for your rental. More info here.

Also, Austria is one of the few countries that requires an International Drivers License. Sometimes I've done it. Sometimes not. But it's a cheap thing to get at any AAA.

[CosmosMpower]

Has anyone booked a reservation to rent a car from BMW Welt via BMW on Demand? I just went through the process and didn't get any kind of confirmation except a white screen with some kind of code and no other messaging. I emailed them to see if my reservation went through, just curious.

[CosmosMpower]

There was a glitch with their online system so I ended up having to call them and they got my a M2C competition rental.

Still trying to figure out what to do with my weekend with basically a Fri night, Sat, Sun of driving/ sight seeing. Open to any ideas. Need to be back in Munich by 5 PM Sunday.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I don't think BMW will build a car and let it sit there 4 months for you to take ED.

They did mine. Built in March, picked it up in July.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Graves

They did mine. Built in March, picked it up in July.

I bet that wait was difficult, probably around 6 months from order to driving your car.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I bet that wait was difficult, probably around 6 months from order to driving your car.

Ordered in August of 2017. Built March of 2018. Picked up July 2018. Worse than the wait to come home from Iraq, lol.