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View Poll Results: S65 option or S55 standart ? | |||
YES ... I would choose the S65 if an option at this price would be availiable | 93 | 45.81% | |
NO ... I would choose the standart S55 engine | 110 | 54.19% | |
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll |
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12-18-2013, 05:09 PM | #89 |
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Op, and others in this tread made several assumptions. Here are some of them, as well as my personal opinion on them
1. The S65 is a "weak" engine- This engine in my opinion shines at the track. Other than that, I'm not sure what folks are getting at by comparing it to the N54, or the yet to be released S55. Neither of these can hang with an S65 for hours on a track without extensive use of methanol for cooling IMHO. 2. The S55 is "stronger" than the N54- I actually think the opposite is true, based on the terminology that BMW used to describe the two engines. The N54 internals are re-enforced, according to BMW, whereas BMW notes that the main difference between the N55, and S55 is that the crank, and pistons are re-enforced to specifically withstand the higher rpm output of the S55. Nothing else was techincally re-enforced other than these two specific parts. 3. The S55 will make more or as much power as a highly modified N54 (+700whp)- What folks are forgetting is that BMW learned a lot from the N54 crowd, especially state side. All service protocols have been updated to specifically check for modifications and flag the vehicle for warranty if any modifications are found. Also BMW will have a ton of tuner detecting shadow codes. Unlike before, when they now scan your vehicle, the ecu spits out all codes ever thrown, so deleted codes will come back. Aside from this, no one has yet developed a flash tune for the F series in general, as BMW made this extra hard to do. Piggybacks should of course work on the S55, but as for a proper flash tune it may never come. Finally, the oem turbos on this car will prove quite difficult to make an upgrade kit for, based on the electronic design.
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12-18-2013, 08:24 PM | #90 |
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Wow..... famous 335i vs M3 has leaked over!!!
Can't say the OP is right or wrong. A bit brash, yes. I will say that the M-DCT was the first dual clutch trans in the world rated to 9k....beat the 458 by I think 6-months, and only those two, new R8 and new GT3 have them. Pretty cool, great job by ///M division. So for me, I don't care about power, torque. I focus on the uniqueness of the way it's accomplished and thrill of the drive. Always felt that the S65 was the culmination of the S54, S85, S65 line of REALLY high revving engines and exciting transmissions and power delivery to the rear wheels. Maybe not the most reliable, or fastest, but cars with engines and trans that have you a special experience. Sorry for the long opinion. Cheers, e46e92
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12-18-2013, 09:09 PM | #91 | |
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its like a really rich and greedy person. its hard for them to see that there is more to life than money. |
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12-18-2013, 09:18 PM | #92 | |
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Is your 2013 your first ///M car? You seem to romanticize things a bit. |
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12-18-2013, 09:24 PM | #93 | ||
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I own my e92, and drive it daily, but it is soon to be retired from daily use by a 3 year old 740Li. When the comp pkg comes our I will lease (first time I have ever leased) an F80 ///M3 for my company, and hand the 7 to the wife and her '07 X3 will be regulated to minor driving. I view mine as too special to ever give up, while the new one as a great car that I won't care about giving up after a few years. Cheers, e46e92
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12-18-2013, 09:27 PM | #94 | |
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It seems like you might benefit from not painting the brush with such broad a stroke either. Many people have 'been there, done that'. |
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12-18-2013, 09:29 PM | #95 | ||
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Cheers, e46e92
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12-19-2013, 12:25 PM | #96 | |
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The next gen California (MY 2015) will have the Maserati/Ferrari 3,8l turbo engine that has been in production for a few years now.
http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/12/19/n...bos-at-geneva/ So, Ferrari will be using a existing turbo engine, probably with their own specific set up for the California. Will be interesting to see if they retain the cross plane crank from the Maserati version or use a flat plane crank... From an interview with Ferrari CEO Amadeo Felisa: Quote:
Last edited by Boss330; 12-19-2013 at 12:34 PM.. |
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12-19-2013, 01:10 PM | #97 | |
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Have you forgot that the S55 has a brand new block with a closed deck design and no cylinder liners? Should be significantly stronger than the N54/55 Block! |
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12-19-2013, 01:15 PM | #98 | |
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But, I agree on your view on the S85 and S65 as being the culmination of a long line of BMW M naturally aspirated engines. The "special" qualities of a NA engine will be lost with the S55, but that engine will have other "special" qualities! |
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12-19-2013, 01:33 PM | #99 | |
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What astounds me most is how many people on this forum have written off the new M3's engine without even driving it or seeing any impartial reviews, and in spite of great data and some fantastic new parts. Amazingly 'head buried in sand' approach. Or as sedan_clan also said: a bit of romanticization |
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12-19-2013, 01:48 PM | #100 | |
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The M3 was actually my favorite car, but that's only due to it's smaller size and has nothing to do with the engine or lackluster interior. It felt more tossable around the track, even if my actual times didn't back that up. If the F80 has kept the same overall feel of the E90 or improved along with an engine with similar characteristics of the M5, I think we have a winner. I left my first day after driving the M5 then the M3 back to back saying, "boy if they could put the M5 engine in the M3, THAT would be the car I'd want". |
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12-19-2013, 03:40 PM | #101 | |
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12-19-2013, 03:46 PM | #102 | |
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12-19-2013, 07:10 PM | #103 | |
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Significantly stronger than the N55? YES. Than the N54? Not a chance! Like OP stated, our stock block is currently holding daily driven 770whp. Call me when we see this with the S55. Oh, and how bout them S55 rods? Don't think those are as re-enforced as the N54
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12-19-2013, 08:31 PM | #104 | |
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12-19-2013, 08:31 PM | #105 | ||
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Best source I could find: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test Cheers, e46e92
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12-19-2013, 08:46 PM | #106 | ||
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My first 8 "performance cars" were all turbocharged, but I've since switched to n/a as I enjoy the throttle response and more linear power delivery. The 435 is the first FI car I've had in quite some time and I love it. Can't wait to try the S55 as I'm sure it's better than the N55 in every way. The broad powerband on the S55 should be quite beneficial when translated into real world performance figures. I love the E9xM but IMHO the s65 just didn't have enough torque for being a v8 and the overall driving experience wasn't visceral enough for me to justify trading in the Z4M for. If I didn't love the Z4M so much I'd be in a 6mt E92 M3 for the past few years. That said I drive my friend's 6mt and dct e92 Ms every chance I get (about once every few weeks), and I smile like a little kid in a candy store every time I drive them. These cars are all awesome. |
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12-19-2013, 08:51 PM | #107 | |
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If you can find a source to refute those, then by all means. |
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12-19-2013, 08:55 PM | #108 |
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The S65 sounded great and was a great engine to rev and it felt exotic to me. I do miss my old E92 M3, however, even though the throttle response was great, it just felt weak below 5000 rpm. If only the S65 had another 50 pounds of low end torque it would be great.
I know it is not an equal comparison price wise, etc., but when I got out of an R8 V10 plus (another NA engine), it made my M3 feel a lot less special. That NA engine, pushed me in the back of my seat from idle to redline. I really want more grunt with the new FI engine and I do feel that it will deliver. I don't want to spend 180K for this R8, but I am fine with 90K for my M4. This is why I sold my M3 to make room for my Silverstone M4 and I can't wait. |
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12-20-2013, 02:27 AM | #109 | |
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Now although I would give the vast majority of the design/engineering/manufacturing credit to Getrag for the M-DCT in the E9X M3, BMW and Getrag almost for sure cooperated on the unit. After all software for the transmission must cooperate with the engine software (further cooperation/integration has been discussed for the DCT in the M4). This tight knitting clearly requires some co-development and this is very typical as the supplier engineering team becomes a bit intermingled with the OEMs team during the development phase. If I were to speculate on the customizations for BMW software is one obvious one as is the overall external packaging. The M-DCT unit advertised on Getrags website (right around and prior to the launch time of the E9X M3) looked ENTIRELY different than the actual unit. I'm sure those pics can easily be dug up. However, the internals both in their advertised unit and those for the other BMW models offering a nearly identical spec, are likely very close to identical. They probably offer very slight internal revisions and updates here and there but are going to be largely identical. There is plenty of documentation both external and I believe straight from the horses mouth (from BMW) stating this as the case.
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12-20-2013, 02:43 AM | #110 | |
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Is it the chassis or engine which wasn't visceral enough? I've never heard the S65 being described as anything but frenetic and visceral. We've also beat the "not enough torque" think to death in about 100 threads. The car has more torque at the wheels than a 400 ft lb Z06 Vette at most rpms in most gears. Torque at the crank is largely a meaningless. It is torque with the gear/FD multiplication which gives wheel torque which is then something directly related to instantaneous acceleration.
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