24 Month Lease - Porsche 991 or M4?

[richardg]

Car looks amazing Jason. But are people seriously getting 100k carreras for $9xx. That just seems impossible. Granted I have never leased a car so I have no idea lol. I would assume a no money down 100k car like this would easily be 1500 a month. I would guess a 85k M with no incentives and no down payment would ballpark around 1300 a month. Which begs another question for those who lease, wouldn't it be better to not put a downpayment as you never get that money back if it wrecked? Sorry but all of this is new to me. I have always paid cash or short term financed cars, which I hate doing but I am not that liquid.

[jasonn]

Originally Posted by richardg

Car looks amazing Jason. But are people seriously getting 100k carreras for $9xx. That just seems impossible. Granted I have never leased a car so I have no idea lol. I would assume a no money down 100k car like this would easily be 1500 a month. I would guess a 85k M with no incentives and no down payment would ballpark around 1300 a month. Which begs another question for those who lease, wouldn't it be better to not put a downpayment as you never get that money back if it wrecked? Sorry but all of this is new to me. I have always paid cash or short term financed cars, which I hate doing but I am not that liquid.

hey richardg,

I've gotten a few PMs about this already, shoot me a PM and I'll give you my exact monthly payment w/ all taxes included and the options I have on the car. In fact 2 members thanked me for my post and got 911s also

My deal is $0 cap reduction aka no down payment/trade-in value/etc. MSRP of my car was over $100k. Remember the base price of the car is $84,300.00, so if you get a manual and maybe one or two options only, it'll be $92kish and then after negotiation, I can see how some people reach the $9xx price point before tax.

I heard this deal will continue through September so best of luck!!

Already got some mods lined up:

• oem clear tail lights
• oem clear reflectors
• tint for rear reflectors
• debating on debadging and replacing with black 911 emblem
• debating on spacers
• debating on springs
  

debating...cause after all, it's just a lease

ps at $1550 w/ $0 cap reduction you are looking at a C2S. I've walked away from 2-3 deals between the $1450 - $1550 mark. MSRP for the C2S's I looked at ranged from $115k to $119k.

Originally Posted by FrankiE90

Congrats on the new Porsche!
Dat look nice.

Thanks so much Frankie!

[Kief]

Carrera white...nice!

Anyone have experience with PFS and lease turn in? Are they brutal regarding minor blemishes or commensurate with BMWFS and certain allowances?

[termigni]

wow nice choice. i would've done the same. M4 and 991 are in different class.

[jasonn]

Hey Guys,

To help everyone out even more, I'm attaching the Lease Calculator I made myself. I googled how to calculate the lease payment and made myself knowledgeable enough to negotiate coherently. Brought my iPad with my Lease Calculator to most of my negotiations.


Base 991 ONLY
Change residual to 78% if Manual Car
Change residual to 77% if PDK
For percentage off MSRP, 5% off custom order or new 2014 is not bad. If you apply pressure you should be able get more than 7% off 2013s.

This does not factor in the MRM (Maximum Residual MSRP)



IMHO, residual means so much more than the Money Factor. Everyone emphasizes the Money Factor and I get it--that's how these places make money, but the numbers speak for themselves. Play around with my calculator. Try changing the residual to 73%, which I think is the rate for a C2S. You can see the monthly change dramatically.

So...if you change to the BMW 63% rate as referenced i my OP...

Basically, Porsche is betting that the car will retain its value.

Personally, I forced every dealership to give me the "buy rate" of 0.00200 MF simply because I knew it was out there.

Originally Posted by Kief

Carrera white...nice!

Anyone have experience with PFS and lease turn in? Are they brutal regarding minor blemishes or commensurate with BMWFS and certain allowances?

Thanks! don't think they will be too bad as long as you hop back into a Porsche

Originally Posted by termigni

wow nice choice. i would've done the same. M4 and 991 are in different class.

Thanks!








.

[onefastdoc]

Originally Posted by i001947

I would only go with the Porsche as a second car (weekend toy). As great as they are on the track and weekend pizza runs etc., DD is just not something I would attempt to do with a 991. Not at those $$$$ maintenance prices.

991 not a daily driver? What are you talking about. It is as good as a daily driver as any car. At my office there are about 30-40 997 and 991 cars that are DD. half of the drivers are women too. Several of my friends have them so I am in one at least 2-3 times a week. It is every bit as good as a DD as my M3 was. My current DD is a 2012 GT-R with 700hp. If you think the 991 is not a good DD, you should probably be looking at getting a minivan.

[dencoop]

If I may add .2c.....

I have been loyal with bmw since I entered the brand in 2006 with an e90 325i then moving to (may have missed a few BMWs and did not include other brands owned same period)

07 X5 30
09 E93 N54
11 E89 Z4
11 E70 diesel
12 F01 750
12 E70 diesel
13 F12 650i
13 E70 diesel

13 Lime Rock Park ///M3

And just 2 weeks ago picked up a Brand New 991 C4S cabrio manual.

Let me tell you, this car is more comfortable to drive as a daily driver them the ///M3 was...

They are very similar in many respects but to me the Porsche takes all of the best characteristics of the ///M3 and intensifies them... Everything is even more sharper, crisper, cleaner....

It's unfortunate THE ///M4 was not out yet - otherwise I may have never known that there is something sweeter then my beloved BMW.

I have an F15 on order but now thinking if the cayenne is anything like this 911 - I may change my mind in the F15 order...

My new toy

[jasonn]

Your Carrera Classic Wheels are sick!! Also, Carrara White FTW!!!!!

My Clear Tai Lights arrived today...installed them...love it!

Originally Posted by dencoop

If I may add .2c.....

I have been loyal with bmw since I entered the brand in 2006 with an e90 325i then moving to (may have missed a few BMWs and did not include other brands owned same period)

07 X5 30
09 E93 N54
11 E89 Z4
11 E70 diesel
12 F01 750
12 E70 diesel
13 F12 650i
13 E70 diesel

13 Lime Rock Park ///M3

And just 2 weeks ago picked up a Brand New 991 C4S cabrio manual.

Let me tell you, this car is more comfortable to drive as a daily driver them the ///M3 was...

They are very similar in many respects but to me the Porsche takes all of the best characteristics of the ///M3 and intensifies them... Everything is even more sharper, crisper, cleaner....

It's unfortunate THE ///M4 was not out yet - otherwise I may have never known that there is something sweeter then my beloved BMW.

I have an F15 on order but now thinking if the cayenne is anything like this 911 - I may change my mind in the F15 order...

My new toy

[PSTM3]

Car looks sweet.
My buddy just added a Shark Werks exhaust to his 3.4l 991 and the difference is amazing.

[dencoop]

Thanks for the kind words, the clear tail lights came out sick with the white

Originally Posted by jasonn

Your Carrera Classic Wheels are sick!! Also, Carrara White FTW!!!!!

My Clear Tai Lights arrived today...installed them...love it!

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield

I seriously doubt a 991s with some goodies are going to be in the 70 range anytime next year. I would love it, but don't see it happening.

Agree. Its wishful thinking. There are plenty of used 997s in the 70s still

[BMWCali]

Congrats Jason and dencoop! I just picked up a 2014 Boxster myself. Love it! I was a BMW loyalist until now. If the new M3 had already been out, I might of snagged one of those but I think I might be Porsche for life now. We'll see. Until I need 4 seats, I'll probably stick with Porsche. But once I have a family and need the back seats, I might go back to BMW as I'm not a big fan of Porsche's Panamera. The interior of the Panamera is absolutely stunning, but it just doesn't handle like a Porsche in my opinion. I'd probably rather have a 550i GT than a Panamera if I needed backseats.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Congrats Jason and dencoop! I just picked up a 2014 Boxster myself. Love it! I was a BMW loyalist until now. If the new M3 had already been out, I might of snagged one of those but I think I might be Porsche for life now. We'll see. Until I need 4 seats, I'll probably stick with Porsche. But once I have a family and need the back seats, I might go back to BMW as I'm not a big fan of Porsche's Panamera. The interior of the Panamera is absolutely stunning, but it just doesn't handle like a Porsche in my opinion. I'd probably rather have a 550i GT than a Panamera if I needed backseats.

The Panamera is the best sedan on the market and handles better than anything BMW, Merc, Audi etc have. While the looks are polarizing, its still Porsche through and through.

[Dave2011M3]

Originally Posted by jasonn

Well, looks like I'm getting my joke Carrera on Monday! Super pumped

Three things.

Firstly, Porsche Dealerships, at least in Los Angeles, really piss me off. At the four dealerships I frequented, I heard the some variation of these lines: "this isn't BMW or Mercedes...we aren't a volume dealership" or "this isn't BMW or Mercedes, this is Porsche, we don't sell our cars to just anyone". I considered adding my GF to my lease since she currently has an X1 for the Porsche Conquest Program. Rep scoffed at us and said "that's what...only $500 bucks a month?" My GF got up and walked out of the dealership. She loves her X1. Best LA dealership is Beverly Hills Porsche. Glen Fagin is great to deal with, but he just didn't have the color combo or specs I wanted. Bastard kept trying to talk me out of Sport Chrono.

Secondly PFS is tough! Man I have never encountered any credit issues ever until now. Not even for my house. I was initially declined!! Said insufficient credit history. Mortgage history only 7 months, they wanted 2 years. I had to forward my personal bank statements and my company's bank statements then I got approved.

Lastly, back to the LA Porsche Dealerships. I could only get 4-5% off MSRP and I had to fight and battle for the 0.00200 MF for a base 991. If you guys are considering a lease, don't forget Porsche dealerships out of state. They are much more accommodating. And a few of them are volume Porsche dealerships so they can move cars quickly and give you close to the pricing right off the bat. From there, apply a tad bit of pressure and you'll get to the price you want, or in the very least a much better deal.

Very true...even when I leased my 2007 997S the best a dealer would give me off of MSRP here in Los Angeles was 1-2% off at the time. I got a lead from a chap over on 6speedonline.com and I bought my car from North Olmsted Porsche in Ohio. Got almost 8% off of MSRP on my ordered car. Will never buy a car from a Porsche dealership in Los Angeles.

Dave

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by jasonn

Well, looks like I'm getting my joke Carrera on Monday! Super pumped

Three things.

Don't listen to that guy. I drove both 991 S and non-S same day. Honestly think the extra $15k for the S, is a complete waste of money.

Enjoy your new ride, it is one nice bit of kit.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by jasonn

Hey Guys,

To help everyone out even more, I'm attaching the Lease Calculator I made myself. I googled how to calculate the lease payment and made myself knowledgeable enough to negotiate coherently. Brought my iPad with my Lease Calculator to most of my negotiations.


Base 991 ONLY
Change residual to 78% if Manual Car
Change residual to 77% if PDK
For percentage off MSRP, 5% off custom order or new 2014 is not bad. If you apply pressure you should be able get more than 7% off 2013s.

This does not factor in the MRM (Maximum Residual MSRP)



IMHO, residual means so much more than the Money Factor. Everyone emphasizes the Money Factor and I get it--that's how these places make money, but the numbers speak for themselves. Play around with my calculator. Try changing the residual to 73%, which I think is the rate for a C2S. You can see the monthly change dramatically.

So...if you change to the BMW 63% rate as referenced i my OP...

Basically, Porsche is betting that the car will retain its value.

Personally, I forced every dealership to give me the "buy rate" of 0.00200 MF simply because I knew it was out there.

How miles a year on these 24 month leases?

[jasonn]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Congrats Jason and dencoop! I just picked up a 2014 Boxster myself. Love it! I was a BMW loyalist until now. If the new M3 had already been out, I might of snagged one of those but I think I might be Porsche for life now. We'll see. Until I need 4 seats, I'll probably stick with Porsche. But once I have a family and need the back seats, I might go back to BMW as I'm not a big fan of Porsche's Panamera. The interior of the Panamera is absolutely stunning, but it just doesn't handle like a Porsche in my opinion. I'd probably rather have a 550i GT than a Panamera if I needed backseats.

Congrats to you on your 981!!

Originally Posted by Dave2011M3

Very true...even when I leased my 2007 997S the best a dealer would give me off of MSRP here in Los Angeles was 1-2% off at the time. I got a lead from a chap over on 6speedonline.com and I bought my car from North Olmsted Porsche in Ohio. Got almost 8% off of MSRP on my ordered car. Will never buy a car from a Porsche dealership in Los Angeles.

Dave

Right on!

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Don't listen to that guy. I drove both 991 S and non-S same day. Honestly think the extra $15k for the S, is a complete waste of money.

Enjoy your new ride, it is one nice bit of kit.

Thanks man! Yeah I drove the C2S and C2 back to back. No difference to me until after the 7k-ish RPM mark. Others have noticed no real difference until after 150mph. On the track is a different story, however.

C2 w/ PDK & Sport Chrono is 4.1 to 60mph
C2S w/ PDK & Sport Chrono is 3.9 to 60mph

If anyone is thinking of a base 991, this is a good thread to read to see if you'd like the 3.4 991 or even a 991 at all. These are not stop-light racer cars.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...rformance.html

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

How miles a year on these 24 month leases?

For mine, it is 10,000 miles EDIT: 10,000 miles/year, so 20,000 for 24 months

Took some quick cell pics this weekend:

[ridin135]

Damn nice looking car. Was about to buy a boxster but this has me thinking again about my M. By the way does anyone know the residuals for the 2013 991 c2 and c2s with 10 or 12k a year?

[jasonn]

Originally Posted by ridin135

Damn nice looking car. Was about to buy a boxster but this has me thinking again about my M. By the way does anyone know the residuals for the 2013 991 c2 and c2s with 10 or 12k a year?

Thanks!

all the info I posted is for 10k miles a year

for 7500 miles its 78% residual I think

C2S is um 73% or 75% I forget.

Personally, I don't think I would lease a 2013/14 C2S, I'd just finance and buy a 2012 C2S.

The C2 lease is a great deal because of the residual, you get to drive a 100K+ car for a similar monthly as the current M3. Plus, if you have a company and you are writing it off, it makes even more sense.