Is it me or am I right?

[///SAL]

Originally Posted by gblansten

LOL I think I am getting an X5 50i next. No joke.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by 1FASTX5

Just saw what you drive.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3

Which one of those cars that you listed does not go neck to neck, beat, or come close to its competitors??? Go ahead, tell me AMG cars or any other competitor in the same category or price range beats these M cars soooo bad that M is just "marketing".

Which one of the cars that you named is being so badly beat in its category that you think does not deserve to be in the M division, which is known for taking street made BMWs and bringing them to a higher level of performance.

On the flip side, what makes you guys think you are the one who decided a what can and can not come from the M division? As if someone pinky swore to you that only sedans and coupes can carry an M badge or come from the M division to compete with the best of their rivals.

Would you like BMW to come up with a separate segment which does not mention the M brand but is entirely new with no history and use none of the leverage and legacy that the brand has developed over the years so YOU can feel special with the little M? Why would you want this to happen?

For a company which is more true to its roots and delivers so well on so many levels, often better than its rivals, you guys sure know how to shit on a brand because your racecar M3 shares the same badge as the balls to the wall X6M.

If you understand the context, this has nothing to do with beating its competitors but rather staying true to its motorsports heritage.

There is NO place for an suv to be classified as "motorsport". Id rather have a freaking raptor which will tear these suvs apart on the road and in extreme environments.

Thats what he means. And yes we can blame other companies by doing this first. Bmw has to compete and show and be in this segment to do so.

But then again you dont see any panamera / cayenne / hell even cayman GT3 versions.

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

If you understand the context, this has nothing to do with beating its competitors but rather staying true to its motorsports heritage.

There is NO place for an suv to be classified as "motorsport". Id rather have a freaking raptor which will tear these suvs apart on the road and in extreme environments.

Thats what he means. And yes we can blame other companies by doing this first. Bmw has to compete and show and be in this segment to do so.

But then again you dont see any panamera / cayenne / hell even cayman GT3 versions.

Classified as "Motorsport"? Are you serious? What makes the M3 worthy to be classified as motorsport? Is it a race ready car? What class of racing is it spec'd out for lol.

It's a car made by the M division and so is the very fast X6M, M5, etc.

Blame other companies? For what, making really cool and fast SUVs? Why would we blame them? You don't think its cool that we have these awesome SUVs? Or is it just uncool to put an M badge on it?


You guys take M waaaaay too seriously. Your car is NOT a Motorsport car haha. Sorry to break it to you, man. None of the M cars are "Motorsport" cars. They are great cars, they perform well, but if you even remotely think that your M3 is so holy that its a Motorsport car and the X6M is just NOT, you need a realty check. They are Motorsport inspired just like the bigger, heavier cars, are motorsport inspired. Don't try to take that away and make M3/1M more special than it is and the X6M/M6 less special.

BMW M is BMW's performance car division. They take production cars and make them race inspired for people like me and you.

Please don't try to tell me I don't "UNDERSTAND" the context. The context is you guys think you have a "Motorsport" car or its more special than the other and want the exclusivity. You need to get off your high horse, it aint that serious and your car is not a racecar.

BMW M is solid as hell and calling it Marketing suggests it's hype and the cars don't do what they are designed to do.

[pkimM3r]

Youre crazy

This has got to be the best rant post ive ever seen on these boards.

Why so much hate?

Ive never said that m3 are worthy and a track car - it takes a few extra mods to make it worthy. That being said it is the car that was built just so they could enter the dtm series isnt it? Sadly they are becoming bigger and fatter and losing its glory of just being a pure performance car. Nonetheless it has its heritage. Its the car that they build the csl, the crt and the gts for. So yes, it is the m car the company focuses on.

Im not saying the other m cars are crap. I would love an m5 or an m6 but for an suv ill take a range rover. X5/6M are just useless. And they dont even come with a dct?! Shows how much they think about it. And yes i do "blame" other companies for offering an ml55 now ml63 and gl63. Otherwise these suvs wouldnt exist.

Ill always take an m3 or smaller 1m coupe (and hopefully an m2) over the big m cars for performance.

I was just giving you the posters perspective and if you didnt understand where i was coming from.....well.....

Cheers

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

If you understand the context, this has nothing to do with beating its competitors but rather staying true to its motorsports heritage.

There is NO place for an suv to be classified as "motorsport". Id rather have a freaking raptor which will tear these suvs apart on the road and in extreme environments.

Thats what he means. And yes we can blame other companies by doing this first. Bmw has to compete and show and be in this segment to do so.

But then again you dont see any panamera / cayenne / hell even cayman GT3 versions.

To many in the Porsche community, all the cars you mentioned (possibly except Cayman) are a herecy to the brand. Just the fact that Porsche builds a SUV... After all it's a sports car company, unlike BMW...

Of course a SUV can be classified as MOTORSPORT. Haven't you seen Paris-Dakar and plenty of other off road racing/rally series?

I believe we have two camps of M enthusiasts here:

1. Those that feel it's only the original M models (M3/M5) that are worthy
2. Those that feel that all/most models coming from M GmbH are worthy

The first group talks about motorsport heritage, DTM, pure driving experiences and no dillution of the brand.

The second group talks about the ethos of the M brand. Creating faster cars from the BMW line of production cars.

Then there is a third group that thinks the M cars should be compared with dedicated sports cars like the 911, 458 etc, designed with only that purppse in mind unlike a basic 3 series BMW...

And finally the fourth group that just looks at HP and compares it with any car that has more power (but possibly weighs twice as much)... The F8X M3 will be the most powerful M3 so far, but still the OP feels that a M car should have "over 500hp"... So, even with lighter weight and more power than the previous gen M3, it's going the wrong way???

[TheWeb]

Originally Posted by Brosef

M = motorsport, not power. I think most are happy to see power being traded for weight savings (even though some wanted more weight cut), as it helps handling, braking, acceleration and even fuel efficiency. Also, the M3 doesn't have to be the fastest in its class - it just has to achieve the perfect balance of performance (and balanced performance that's forgiving and controllable at the limit) with everyday practicality. anyone who wants a faster car for less can go pick up a Vette or Z28 Camaro.

well said

the reason I keep buying ///M is because of the whole package you get. There will always be something faster. But very few "all Around" cars are better.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

That being said it is the car that was built just so they could enter the dtm series isnt it?

No - a DTM car is a silhouette race car that shares nothing with the production M3 other than some basic styling elements. The tie-in is just a product of marketing. Other manufacturers, like Audi for example, just name the DTM entry after the normal pedestrian car you can get with a four cylinder diesel or whatever. So your question actually fits right in with the point he was trying to make - M cars are tuner cars (albeit from the factory), not race cars. This isn't a bad thing, it's just important to keep things in perspective.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No - a DTM car is a silhouette race car that shares nothing with the production M3 other than some basic styling elements. The tie-in is just a product of marketing. Other manufacturers, like Audi for example, just name the DTM entry after the normal pedestrian car you can get with a four cylinder diesel or whatever. So your question actually fits right in with the point he was trying to make - M cars are tuner cars (albeit from the factory), not race cars. This isn't a bad thing, it's just important to keep things in perspective.

I think he might have been thinking about the E30 M3, which actually was made to be used in the DTM. That was when DTM cars was based on production cars.

The last two years the Audi has been named RS5 in the DTM.

Apart from that, agree with everything you wrote.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I think he might have been thinking about the E30 M3, which actually was made to be used in the DTM. That was when DTM cars was based on production cars.

The last two years the Audi has been named RS5 in the DTM.

Apart from that, agree with everything you wrote.

Thanks - you're right, I forgot Audi changed the name. Probably a wise business move given BMWs strategy. It may have been Mercedes I was thinking about although they may have brought the AMG brand into it now as well.

And good point about The original M3 and DTM. It did not occur to me that he may have been talking about the past.

[pkimM3r]

Yes was referring to the e30 - and hence my reasoning of the continued heritage, and the now bigger and fatter car based on that

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Boss330

To many in the Porsche community, all the cars you mentioned (possibly except Cayman) are a herecy to the brand. Just the fact that Porsche builds a SUV... After all it's a sports car company, unlike BMW...

Of course a SUV can be classified as MOTORSPORT. Haven't you seen Paris-Dakar and plenty of other off road racing/rally series?

I believe we have two camps of M enthusiasts here:

1. Those that feel it's only the original M models (M3/M5) that are worthy
2. Those that feel that all/most models coming from M GmbH are worthy

The first group talks about motorsport heritage, DTM, pure driving experiences and no dillution of the brand.

The second group talks about the ethos of the M brand. Creating faster cars from the BMW line of production cars.

Then there is a third group that thinks the M cars should be compared with dedicated sports cars like the 911, 458 etc, designed with only that purppse in mind unlike a basic 3 series BMW...

And finally the fourth group that just looks at HP and compares it with any car that has more power (but possibly weighs twice as much)... The F8X M3 will be the most powerful M3 so far, but still the OP feels that a M car should have "over 500hp"... So, even with lighter weight and more power than the previous gen M3, it's going the wrong way???

I remember ivan "ironman" stewart arcade game. Those trucks are badass too. Maybe where the m3 pickup was derived from

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Yes was referring to the e30 - and hence my reasoning of the continued heritage, and the now bigger and fatter car based on that

Fair enough but that was then. The M4 is for today and appears set to carry on the modern M brand values. It's not a factory race car nor does it need 500hp to make a case for itself over a 550i.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Fair enough but that was then. The M4 is for today and appears set to carry on the modern M brand values. It's not a factory race car nor does it need 500hp to make a case for itself over a 550i.

Sadly it is. But we can hold on to heritage and mock others cant we?



Ppl have to realize im on here for fun and games (and on a serious note the great technical info on here - everything else is just troll).

[///SAL]

Wow look what i have done....

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Youre crazy

This has got to be the best rant post ive ever seen on these boards.

Why so much hate?

Ive never said that m3 are worthy and a track car - it takes a few extra mods to make it worthy. That being said it is the car that was built just so they could enter the dtm series isnt it? Sadly they are becoming bigger and fatter and losing its glory of just being a pure performance car. Nonetheless it has its heritage. Its the car that they build the csl, the crt and the gts for. So yes, it is the m car the company focuses on.

Im not saying the other m cars are crap. I would love an m5 or an m6 but for an suv ill take a range rover. X5/6M are just useless. And they dont even come with a dct?! Shows how much they think about it. And yes i do "blame" other companies for offering an ml55 now ml63 and gl63. Otherwise these suvs wouldnt exist.

Ill always take an m3 or smaller 1m coupe (and hopefully an m2) over the big m cars for performance.

I was just giving you the posters perspective and if you didnt understand where i was coming from.....well.....

Cheers

I'm crazy yet you're the one going on about how fast SUVs shouldnt exist and that because YOU would drive a Range Rover, everyone else should and the ML63, GL63, X5M, X6M are "useless" and shouldnt exist.

If you can point out an M car that does not do what it is advertised or "hyped up" to do, than you can call M just "Marketing". Until then, don't just repeat something stupid that sounds catchy. M= marketing bro haha hehe.

I've owned every M3 except the E30. I personally like the lighter, sportier cars as well over heavy M6, X6Ms, etc. BUT... I also know there are people of all types in the world and theres ENOUGH people out there to justify these awesome cars. BMW should cater to these people if they can, and there is plenty of proof they can deliver. Now even though I like the smaller, lighter, sportier M cars, I'm not going to be a complete prick and say the ones I dont like shouldnt exist. It's down right selfish.


As for M=marketing, when someone can point out a car that is not close to what it's advertised to do from BMW M, we can agree it's just "Marketing". Til then stop with this high horse shit.

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Sadly it is. But we can hold on to heritage and mock others cant we?



Ppl have to realize im on here for fun and games (and on a serious note the great technical info on here - everything else is just troll).

So you're saying you're just a troll. Now that's something we can agree on

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ACE_M3

I am one. Because this is the list of cars with M in their name

Marketing:
X5M
X6M
X4M
M6 GC
M235i
M135i

Marketing & Motorsport (latest generation is too heavy to be pure Motorsport IMHO)
M6
M5

Motorsport
M3
M4
1M

Have you seen how many badges there are on M Sport vehicles nowadays. Most of the M badges I see are for Marketing rather than Motorsport.

Well, there are just as many S-Line cars or AMG cars that aren't really......well, AMG's or S's. There have been little ///M badges on non-///M cars as far back as I can remember. Heck, my first BMW - a 2002 33ci - had some little ///M badges too. I do agree with your overall point though. They're sticking ///M's on everything.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3

So you're saying you're just a troll. Now that's something we can agree on

if you've read my posts around here OR have met me in person you would know im just fucking around....yes a self proclaimed troll because i like to see ppl get their panties in a bunch on an ONLINE FORUM.....its one of the funniest things in life....emotional attachment to the interwebs LOL....

but i still say the X5/6M are useless in the M lineup (great vehicles nonetheless dont get me wrong)....

audi puts up S-line badges....maybe instead of using the M badge everywhere, BMW can start using M-performance badges to differentiate.

But what the hell does M advertise the X5/6M as doing? I love M cars, they are in my opinion the best overall cars in whatever segment they are in, but that doesn't make me just believe all the hype and automatically say oh the M cars are the BEST AT EVERYTHING (which seems like the marketing worked on you).

in the end we have our opinions and you arguing my case isn't going to change my view..you realize that right?? there's no point in it. so you can respond and WIN!!!

[speeddeacon]

I don't care what they call them as long they keep making models with greater power, better brakes, upgraded suspensions and maybe a bit of exclusivity. Tasteful aero enhancements are always welcome as well.

My first ///M was an M Roadster with the S54 engine. It had the same engine as the e36 M3 but was lighter, thus was a bit quicker than the M3. It was great fun and would run circles around the 3.0 Z3 at the time. I kept that car longer than any other BMW I've ever owned. Was it as good a track car as the M3? No. Not even close. The suspension was way outdated. But I had no problem pushing M3s around The Dragon, which is as aggressive a street drive as I encounter, glowing rotors and hot rubber a plenty. The M Coupe handled much better even. Was it worthy of the M badge? Who knows.

If I were in the market for an SUV, and could afford the X5M, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. Not because of the M badge, but because it is the highest performance version they offer, plain and simple. There are a lot of us like that and that, IMHO, is why BMW makes and markets the M versions. ///M= more. More performance, more exclusivity and more money.

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

if you've read my posts around here OR have met me in person you would know im just fucking around....yes a self proclaimed troll because i like to see ppl get their panties in a bunch on an ONLINE FORUM.....its one of the funniest things in life....emotional attachment to the interwebs LOL....

but i still say the X5/6M are useless in the M lineup (great vehicles nonetheless dont get me wrong)....

audi puts up S-line badges....maybe instead of using the M badge everywhere, BMW can start using M-performance badges to differentiate.

I don't follow you around, don't know who you are in real life, and regret trying to have a decent discussion with you. If all this forum is to you is a place where you can try to get peoples panties in a bunch, so be it. Obviously you need that in your life. I, like MANY of the members here, have been a member on these forums for years, have learned a lot, have had some amazing conversations, and good times without trying to troll or have a good time at someone else's expense, which to me seems like a prick thing to do. In fact, masking your intentions behind expressions like "Emotional attachments to the internet" to insult people who don't play your little "its just the interwebs herpa derpa derp" is childish and easy to see through.

Hope you enjoyed playing with my panties.

[pkimM3r]

i may not do it intentionally to get people riled up - nonetheless its amusing when people get butt hurt about something i say as a joke. i've also met plenty of ppl from here and we all get along just fine.