Official Thread: Report Here if you Spun your Crank Timing Gear Hub.

[sA x sKy]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Not stirring up shit, uncovering the truth. I never made any claims about them at all. Just quoting others.

Why, because I think JB4 is at the heart of most of these issues. Where ever an issue is, you seem to find a removed JB4. Just noticing.

Look at my join date and then take a good look at your join date. Who would know more about the JB4 and its effects on the population; the one who has it had on his N55 for 5 years and M4 for 6 months? Or the one who has joined this forum less than two months ago thinking he's an expert and gain rep as a whistleblower?

The JB4 has had its fair share of problems, I am not saying it's perfect but then again, no tune is. Here's a good point Mike@N54Tuning pointed out, you hear more problems with the JB4 why? Because more people happen to actually use it.

The people who have problems with the JB4, are the people who try to go above and beyond with power. Just like the guy who was running map 7 and detonated. It's an absolute targeting map, if you don't have the proper octane to run it, of course bad shit is going to happen. The DME can only pull timing so much.

If you did the same shit on a flash tune designed for race gas and put 91, the exact same shit will happen.

Like I said before, go back to your corner where you came from and come post when you think you have something knowledgable to say instead of starting shit.

[Mandi90TT]

Join dates don't mean...well, they only mean when you joined the forum. Not a reliable indicator of anything else. That said, I've learned to ignore some folks, like M4 CSL, for good reasons.

Also, the reason you hear about more issues with JB4 is because the type of person who would use a JB4 is also the type of person more likely to post on car forums. Me, I'm very happy with my flash tune, but the JB4 seems to be a great piece of equipment, as well.

Either way, in my non-expert opinion, I think neither one has anything to do with spinning a crank hub.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

For instance , why does a clutch slip at higher tq numbers ? The force put on the gear is greater than than the torque applied from the bolt.

I don't know that I follow what you are saying either. Obviously the clamp load is being overcome by some force if the gear slips. I think the main question is "why is this happening?"

It is definitely possible for the original design work with enough interference and or clamp load without a key way, even though the keyway is a good solution.

Since this appears to be happening on stock, tuned, manual and DCT cars and given the mechanics of the forces applied to it I don't think we can attribute it to tuned cars making more power and over coming it, like a clutch. They may be more prevalent because their owners likely drive them harder but, who knows at this point.

I'd say it's likely the torque to yield bolt either gives up or there is not sufficient stack up to get enough clamp load. I wonder if a solution might be as simple as an ARP fastener for the crank snout.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

I wouldn't say no cost at all, to accurately index and add a keyway to the sprocket and crank require additional machining and qc processes. This of course adds cost, probably only a few dollars per car if that. For something as important as controlling the timing of the rotating assembly in an extremely expensive engine I would think it's worth it.

I'm guessing they thought it was a good way to simplify the parts/assembly and save a few bucks in an area no one would even care about... until they started jumping time.

I will agree to disagree with you.

Again, IF this is a true issue, them knowing of the potential and not doing something would be quite nefarious, given the potential outcome.

They did not understand that this could happen, or engineers would have taken care of this, for the pennies it woud have cost to enginner, amortized through production.

[9SECDD]

Originally Posted by JasonTPG

No one said you needed to buy this part? It's always been totally in your hands. The fact you feel obligated is your issue not ours. As stated , a million times , we had this issue. We had this issue happen to us, many times. We decided to fix the issue and offer it as an OPTION to the public. If you choose not to use it, no problem. This isn't a million dollar idea, in fact if you do the research on the parts used and machine work cost to make. Our profit is next to nothing. So before you go all high and mighty calling BS , maybe you should simply say, thank you. Thank you for providing us with an option if we so choose.

Good day

I will say it, since I thought the same thing all along: Thank you.

[SSIMPS]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Not stirring up shit, uncovering the truth. I never made any claims about them at all. Just quoting others.

Why, because I think JB4 is at the heart of most of these issues. Where ever an issue is, you seem to find a removed JB4. Just noticing.

You are adding absolutely nothing to this conversation. I don't believe you even understand the mechanical forces on this part or what it even does. I am here, like most others, trying to find out what is actually going on with this issue and you are only clogging up the thread.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by larryn

I will agree to disagree with you.

Again, IF this is a true issue, them knowing of the potential and not doing something would be quite nefarious, given the potential outcome.

They did not understand that this could happen, or engineers would have taken care of this, for the pennies it woud have cost to enginner, amortized through production.

I think we are mostly saying the same thing just in different ways.

I believe the engineers completely understood the potential outcome of what would happen if this part allowed the timing of the rotating assembly to slip, if they didn't they shouldn't be engineers. I think they felt confident they had a good design that made production cheaper and easier while still being very reliable. Unfortunately for whatever reason there seem to be several cars both tuned and stock, manual and DCT experiencing this issue. Possible reasons range from poor design, manufacturing, QC to modifications or abuse by the owners.

There are pictures in this thread of the aftermath so, I would say the "is it an issue" part is pretty well put to bed. How much of an issue and what cars does it effect is yet to be determined.

[mark5092]

So after 5 pages of discussion now, how many have had this problem?

[Warranty P]

Originally Posted by mark5092

So after 5 pages of discussion now, how many have had this problem?

Only one and reported by (suprise, suprise) the company that sells the fix. lolzies

This is too funny.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Warranty P

Only one and reported by (suprise, suprise) the company that sells the fix. lolzies

This is too funny.

Well fellas, I'd hold off a little longer before we pass judgment. I know somebody that may have had this happen just a few days ago.


Preliminary results are pointing to my initial suspicion that they spun the timing gear on the crank hub.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by 135iSB

You are adding absolutely nothing to this conversation. I don't believe you even understand the mechanical forces on this part or what it even does. I am here, like most others, trying to find out what is actually going on with this issue and you are only clogging up the thread.

I will draw the dots for you.......Ever wonder why there are none posting?

1. The piggy creed, If something goes wrong -Take it off and pretend you are STOCK. (Fact)

2. The cars that have said they spun cranks had JB4 (Fact)

3. We have had zero post here about STOCK cars, please refer to Number 1.

In my opinion, this thread will not get anyone posting on it about a spun crank, as they won't want it pointed out that on previous occasions they had JB4.

My contribution to this thread is, I think this is an issue CAUSED by screwing up the boost, and STOCK cars have nothing to Fear. (Unless 6MT and Money Shift)

Why, because if you truly were always STOCK, you are covered by warranty. Any Stock owner that had this happen and was being refused warranty would scream their head off and cry LEMON law.

I don't think anyone who is stock should worry about this. Just my opinion.

[sA x sKy]

One of my close friend's is a tech at a BMW dealer. He has personally fixed TWO cars that have had this problem. Both 6MT.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Well fellas, I'd hold off a little longer before we pass judgment. I know somebody that may have had this happen just a few days ago.


Preliminary results are pointing to my initial suspicion that they spun the timing gear on the crank hub.

Was it a money shift, and did they happen to have a JB4?

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by sA x sKy

One of my close friend's is a tech at a BMW dealer. He has personally fixed TWO cars that have had this problem. Both 6MT.

There only seems to be two contributing causes at the moment, Either a Money shift or a JB4. I'll ask again, Were they money shifts? BMW can read to see if it was over revved. By any chance did they ever have JB4? I don't believe we will ever get the full truth on this, as people take the Piggy off and claim it was stock. (That was my point.)

I'm not against JB4. I wont put it on my car. But I would like to know the cause of the spun crank, so Stock owners or ones without JB4 can at least breath easy.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by sA x sKy

One of my close friend's is a tech at a BMW dealer. He has personally fixed TWO cars that have had this problem. Both 6MT.

Interesting I would think it would be more of a problem w/ DCT the way it shifts so fast, holds boost during shifts, and has more torque multiplication.

[sA x sKy]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I will draw the dots for you.......Ever wonder why there are none posting?

1. The piggy creed, If something goes wrong -Take it off and pretend you are STOCK. (Fact)

2. The cars that have said they spun cranks had JB4 (Fact)

3. We have had zero post here about STOCK cars, please refer to Number 1.

In my opinion, this thread will not get anyone posting on it about a spun crank, as they won't want it pointed out that on previous occasions they had JB4.

My contribution to this thread is, I think this is an issue CAUSED by screwing up the boost, and STOCK cars have nothing to Fear.

Why, because if you truly were always STOCK, you are covered by warranty. Any Stock owner that had this happen and was being refused warranty would scream there head off and cry LEMON law.

I don't think anyone who is stock should worry about this. Just my opinion.

OMFG?!?!! REALLY?!?! I don't get it, does the ESS piggyback, AA piggyback, and the 10 different flashes that are out.. not increase boost? Am I living in a mythical universe where the JB4 is sole problem of EVERYTHING? That is INSANE!

And fucking BULLSHIT.

1. TRUE. But that is for ANY of the piggybacks. (fact)

2. FALSE! Two 6MT cars had this problem and they were guess what.. STOCK!

3. We have a post on STOCK cars. Please refer to number 2

In my honest opinion, this thread will not get anyone posting about a spun crank because you happen to be blaming a JB4 which does the same thing as every other piggyback out there but w/more features, and just like any flash out there which INCREASES boost.

[sA x sKy]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

There only seems to be two contributing causes at the moment, Either a Money shift or a JB4. I'll ask again, Were they money shifts? BMW can read to see if it was over revved. By any chance did they ever have JB4? I don't believe we will ever get the full truth on this, as people take the Piggy off and claim it was stock. (That was my point.)

I'm not against JB4. I wont put it on my car. But I would like to know the cause of the spun crank, so Stock owners or ones without JB4 can at least breath easy.

One 6Mt was a money shift, the other one just cranked and boom.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by sA x sKy

OMFG?!?!! REALLY?!?! I don't get it, does the ESS piggyback, AA piggyback, and the 10 different flashes that are out.. not increase boost? Am I living in a mythical universe where the JB4 is sole problem of EVERYTHING? That is INSANE!

And fucking BULLSHIT.

1. TRUE. But that is for ANY of the piggybacks. (fact)

2. FALSE! Two 6MT cars had this problem and they were guess what.. STOCK!

3. We have a post on STOCK cars. Please refer to number 2

In my honest opinion, this thread will not get anyone posting about a spun crank because you happen to be blaming a JB4 which does the same thing as every other piggyback out there but w/more features, and just like any flash out there which INCREASES boost.

I agree with 1. (I never said JB4 creed, I said Piggy Creed.) I did clarify and said Screwing up the Boost. (This includes all ways, not just JB4) It just seems JB4 is better at screwing it up than others. There just haven't been any other piggies report as yet.

And Yes 2 = Money Shift is the exception., I did put that in their to clarify. '

3. We only have Money Shifts....so far.

[sA x sKy]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I did clarify and said Screwing up the Boost. It just seems JB4 is better at screwing it up than others. There just haven't been any other piggies report as yet.

And Yes Money Shift is the exception., I did put that in their to clarify.

If you made a poll right now on this forum and listed all the piggybacks and how many people use which one.. You will find your answer.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by sA x sKy

If you made a poll right now on this forum and listed all the piggybacks and how many people use which one.. You will find your answer.

So what you are saying is, its only because far more people have JB4, thats why other issues haven't come to light. I have no problem with that. It makes sense. If you have 500 people with JB4, and only 10 with others, it makes sense the vast majority of problems would arise with JB4 as there are way more of them.

I'm not anti- JB4.....If I were to get a piggy, which I won't, it would probably be JB4. I prefer flash. Just my preference. I want to know the limits of the car like anyone else, and I want to know its weaknesses.

If this truly is a weakness, then I would like to get this Mod. I don't want to Flash and Go BOOM either. Were are all on the same team. I love to mod, I just choose different ones, and I sure as hell want to know if we need this crank mod or not. If its a must I will do it.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

So what you are saying is, its only because far more people have JB4, thats why other issues haven't come to light. I have no problem with that. It makes sense. If you have 500 people with JB4, and only 10 with others, it makes sense the vast majority of problems would arise with JB4 as there are way more of them.

I'm not anti- JB4.....If I were to get a piggy, which I won't, it would probably be JB4. I prefer flash. Just my preference. I want to know the limits of the car like anyone else, and I want to know its weaknesses.

If this truly is a weakness, then I would like to get this Mod. I don't want to Flash and Go BOOM either. Were are all on the same team. I love to mod, I just choose different ones, and I sure as hell want to know if we need this crank mod or not. If its a must I will do it.

You should go read up on the flash tune issues Terry has discovered on N54tech. Hardly bulletproof.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by dmk08

You should go read up on the flash tune issues Terry has discovered on N54tech. Hardly bulletproof.

Exactly, its 100% why I want to know if this is a Boost problem. Screwing up the boost via flash is no different to the crank timing gear hub, than screwing it up via JB4 or any other piggy. So if it is more power creating the problem, I want this mod, before I flash.