06-24-2012, 01:12 AM | #25 | |||
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Reasonable power and displacement with the ratio comparable to current Porsche Turbo. Hopefully the folks recognizing that less weight is better than more power will be pleased. I'm one of them. I'd be willing to be the next M3 dominates its class, track and perhaps even straight line, by a somewhat narrow margin with less power than many.
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The car will not need anything close to 470 hp to hit 186. The car already comes awfully close to that. Either way I think a performance package on the M3 would be lame. Simple in my opinion, but all M3's should have the same engine and output. Of course BMW is most likely to approach this differently to maximize profit. Offer the market an immensely simple and overpriced, zero cost option (zero production cost, some minimal development for sure) for some different software parameters and charge thousands of dollars for it. Unfortunately suckers will line up. Part of the FI game I guess...
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06-24-2012, 11:58 AM | #26 | |
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06-24-2012, 01:11 PM | #27 |
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I wonder how the longer wheelbase will affect the F80 in terms of handling. It is well known that relatively longer wheelbases decrease the agility of a car. When you read about how the current Porsche 991 does not seem to handle as well as the previous 997 the press says things like "lost its precision", "not as tossable", etc. which seems more indicative of the longer wheelbase they went to. Maybe BMW feels like the lighter weight will make up for this (just like Porsche says of the 991).
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06-24-2012, 02:37 PM | #28 |
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I am sure they will get the car right. I just hope the 4 series and M4 don't grow in size much if any at all. I think this is a good chance for them to just a make a smaller car. If they don't I will wait and see what the 2 series looks like.
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06-25-2012, 08:21 PM | #29 | |
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I respectfully disagree with the 911 analogy. The new 991 handles better than the 997; it's a much more capable car. But, the complaints are that some of the steering feel has been lost going the electric steering route. It's more precise and does everything better with less drama. The 991 Carrera S posts similar numbers as the 997 Gt3 on the Nurbergring. Imagine what the 991 Gt3 will do !! I agree that the 997 is a more "engaging" car than the 991- shorter wheelbase makes it feel more alive in your hands ! However , the 911 had quite a short wheelbase compared to a 3 series. The slightly longer wheelbase won't be a negative for the M3 especially if the track width is increased slightly ! Last edited by lbahoshy; 06-25-2012 at 08:31 PM.. |
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06-25-2012, 09:47 PM | #30 |
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I finally had a chance to drive my buddies 1M. I attribute a great deal of the overall difference in feeling (other than raw power/acceleration/straight line aspects) to the significantly shorter wheelbase. The car felt more lively but not necessarily in a good way. One thing I like about any great car is how slow any given very fast speed feels. Quite simply a good chassis is confidence inspiring. In the little 1M at 100 mph it felt every bit of 100 mph and felt way faster than my M3 at 100. That difference has both positive and negative aspects.
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06-26-2012, 08:37 AM | #31 | |
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But seriously, the statement sounds pretty obtuse doesn't it? In fact, the "S55" (working name until we know the real one) will obviously be turbocharged, definitely use HPI (BMW's GDI trade name), and nearly certainly employ Valvetronic (BMW's VVL trade name), making it actually quite dissimilar from an S65 which uses none of those technologies. Not to mention it will not have a short stroke, undersquare bore profile like an S65 does, and will quite likely not rev above 7500 RPM or so. In many ways these engines will be polar opposites of one another. The only thing I can think of as far as S65 influence that would be significant enough to be called out as such would be a flat torque curve. If BMW has found a way to make the turbocharged engine deliver the same amount of torque throughout the entire operating range and thereby feel like a naturally aspirated motor, then that would be an achievement. |
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06-26-2012, 02:43 PM | #32 | |
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06-26-2012, 03:17 PM | #33 | |
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both are awesome cars and i would drive either. shit now i need to go buy both. |
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06-26-2012, 11:33 PM | #34 | |
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However, the gap has certainly narrowed so a question becomes by how much does BMW want to best its competitors with the M3. We would all undoubtedly like to see that margin increased as that simply means more car and more fun.
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06-26-2012, 11:59 PM | #35 | |
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06-27-2012, 11:10 AM | #36 | ||
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Edit: And I suppose the third "half" of the battle would be to get the exhaust to sound unbridled, and the fourth would be to allow the engine to rev as high as possible.
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06-27-2012, 11:35 AM | #37 | ||
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Anecdotally, I owned a 335i with the N54 and while there was a bit of lag, it was not really distracting and didn't detract much from the seat-of-pants feel of the car. What was a little distracting was the fall-off in torque at around 5500 RPM, though it didn't stop the car from being fun to drive. Quote:
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06-27-2012, 03:17 PM | #38 | |
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With an I6 engine I don´t beleave, that it would be possible to create an responsiveness like an N/A engine ... also with the rumored N57-S TriTurbosystem, if the M-GmbH could make it working on an petrol engine with its higher temperatures ... an constantly blown turbosystem is impossible for an long I engine - so the only way to make an I6 with an power output of ~450hp an not more than 3.2ltr. throttle responisive nearly like an N/A M-engine is to use the electric turbo drive for all the responsiveness (not only to eliminate the last bit of lag like by an V6 with the S63Tü turbosystem!), this meen the turbo system would be big enough to produce the top power of ~450hp ... and this turbosystem would made driveable (and responsive) by an electric turbo drive until the exhaust gases are strong enough to drive the big turbos ... this meen M worthiness by an electric engine an an clever electronic. |
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06-27-2012, 04:54 PM | #40 |
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If not there is the next generation IS-F coming. NA 5.0 V8, topping 480 PS and making more than 500 Nm. Also weight reduction is on the program together with dual-clutch transmision. Lexus is at the point of surpassing BMW in the handling department, in fact they already have with the LFA, GS and GT86. So the IS-F is the greatest threat to the M3, and maybe also the next C55 AMG if it get the NA 5.5l V8. The choice will be easy: NA V8 or TT I6 (not as good as Toyota Supra) ?
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06-27-2012, 08:59 PM | #41 |
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DISAGREE. Blipping the throttle on a 335i is sheer torture. You can literally count: "Blip - one onethousand - rev". All depends on how the car is driven. For 75% of drivers, the lag is either not noticeable or not annoying. these are not, however, M drivers.
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06-27-2012, 09:04 PM | #42 | |
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Heck, if they knocked it out of the park AND made a manual available, I might even buy one!
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06-28-2012, 01:15 AM | #43 |
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3.5L I-6 NA 400hp. all i would want and hope for in an M3. lose some weight and its good to go.
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06-28-2012, 01:19 AM | #44 | |
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