Track forum general chit chat

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Nick -- how do you factor trailbraking into this (or perhaps you implicitly are)? Are you assuming the driver is trailbraking at the point of brake release? I ask because generally trailbraking would delay full release of the brake, instead of advancing it sooner as you suggest -- but appropriately performed trailbraking would help to rotate the car and mitigate understeer to some extent, all other things equal (right?)

Hi J, point of the feedback I was getting was that I shouldn’t be thinking of the trailing brake as the way to rotate the car and sent the minimum speed at the corner entry.

I should release the trailing brake sooner so there’s more entry speed, initiate a 4 wheel slide (and use catching that small slide to rotate the car) and let the tires sliding dictate the min speed.

In the data logs, coach was still decelerating while already on maintenance throttle because he was entering in a 4 wheel slide, whereas I was decelerating using the trailing brake and getting to gas later. This cost me exit speed loss of 1-2 mph and that compounded into the next section of track and was a big time loss for me. Looking forward to practicing more at next sonoma open test on 2/20

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi J, point of the feedback I was getting was that I shouldn’t be thinking of the trailing brake as the way to rotate the car and sent the minimum speed at the corner entry.

I should release the trailing brake sooner so there’s more entry speed, initiate a 4 wheel slide (and use catching that small slide to rotate the car) and let the tires sliding dictate the min speed.

In the data logs, coach was still decelerating while already on maintenance throttle because he was entering in a 4 wheel slide, whereas I was decelerating using the trailing brake and getting to gas later. This cost me exit speed loss of 1-2 mph and that compounded into the next section of track and was a big time loss for me. Looking forward to practicing more at next sonoma open test on 2/20

Got it... obviously you're a way better driver than me!!! For my own curiosity, the mechanism by which you generate your said 4 wheel slide is some combination of the effect of trailbraking, just throwing the car into the corner, and maybe a little power oversteer? I'm probably overthinking this, but I find it an interesting exercise to break this stuff down into smaller pieces. Helps me learn. And thanks!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Got it... obviously you're a way better driver than me!!! For my own curiosity, the mechanism by which you generate your said 4 wheel slide is some combination of the effect of trailbraking, just throwing the car into the corner, and maybe a little power oversteer? I'm probably overthinking this, but I find it an interesting exercise to break this stuff down into smaller pieces. Helps me learn. And thanks!

J, i’m still getting up the curve myself. Using a cheapo miata that’s super durable, with full safety gear and a proven setup plus a good data setup has helped me a grow a lot last year versus using a street car like f80 or 911 turbo that was super powerful and too expensive for me to crash (so I didn’t want to max out the corner entry)

Please take a look at this video from a recent test at Sonoma. Note that the coach’s time earlier in the day was 1:59 so I am 8+s off the pace.

4:50 is an example of what you asked about when I entered t3. I pretty much am tossing the car in and then catching it. (I did release the throttle too early and coasted into the corner)

5:00 is an example of the technique gap I posted about when I’m entering t4. . I turned in with a trailing brake and set the min speed with the trail braking. My correction did not come until after I picked back the throttle at the apex. I am working to release the brake earlier and use a small slide to set the min speed and car angle.

At 5:15 I am doing a better job mid corner of t6 getting the car to the limit mid corner but I still used the brakes at entry of t6 to set the min speed, instead of sliding it through right from the entry.

Hope this helps, and if Maynard or other members want to critique coach the vid, please feel free. I would welcome the feedback.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

J, i’m still getting up the curve myself. Using a cheapo miata that’s super durable, with full safety gear and a proven setup plus a good data setup has helped me a grow a lot last year versus using a street car like f80 or 911 turbo that was super powerful and too expensive for me to crash (so I didn’t want to max out the corner entry)

Please take a look at this video from a recent test at Sonoma. Note that the coach’s time earlier in the day was 1:59 so I am 8+s off the pace.

4:50 is an example of what you asked about when I entered t3. I pretty much am tossing the car in and then catching it. (I did release the throttle too early and coasted into the corner)

5:00 is an example of the technique gap I posted about when I’m entering t4. . I turned in with a trailing brake and set the min speed with the trail braking. My correction did not come until after I picked back the throttle at the apex. I am working to release the brake earlier and use a small slide to set the min speed and car angle.

At 5:15 I am doing a better job mid corner of t6 getting the car to the limit mid corner but I still used the brakes at entry of t6 to set the min speed, instead of sliding it through right from the entry.

Hope this helps, and if Maynard or other members want to critique coach the vid, please feel free. I would welcome the feedback.

Cool, thanks much for the theory/video correlation. Admittedly a little hard for me to discern visually what you're referring to at first glance, but I plan to spend some more time looking at those turns and where your brake/throttle inputs are.

Before getting into this stuff more a couple years ago, I never appreciated the degree of nuanced physics and theory that go into trying to be fast through corners. It's been fun learning these fundamentals and then trying to implement them in practice.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

. It's been fun learning these fundamentals and then trying to implement them in practice.

I’ve been toying with the idea of not running my car this year and renting it to friends and just using iracing. You can buy a 911 cup for like $20. Haha

Even cheap w2w added up. Lol.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

J, i’m still getting up the curve myself. Using a cheapo miata that’s super durable, with full safety gear and a proven setup plus a good data setup has helped me a grow a lot last year versus using a street car like f80 or 911 turbo that was super powerful and too expensive for me to crash (so I didn’t want to max out the corner entry)

Please take a look at this video from a recent test at Sonoma. Note that the coach’s time earlier in the day was 1:59 so I am 8+s off the pace.

4:50 is an example of what you asked about when I entered t3. I pretty much am tossing the car in and then catching it. (I did release the throttle too early and coasted into the corner)

5:00 is an example of the technique gap I posted about when I’m entering t4. . I turned in with a trailing brake and set the min speed with the trail braking. My correction did not come until after I picked back the throttle at the apex. I am working to release the brake earlier and use a small slide to set the min speed and car angle.

At 5:15 I am doing a better job mid corner of t6 getting the car to the limit mid corner but I still used the brakes at entry of t6 to set the min speed, instead of sliding it through right from the entry.

Hope this helps, and if Maynard or other members want to critique coach the vid, please feel free. I would welcome the feedback.

Thanks for sharing the video! I like using Miata times as a benchmark for what I shoot for with my heavy (4200lbs) and low-hp (~190whp) wagon. The power to weight ratio is similar (although I think miatas still have a bit of a better ratio).

Do you think you can carry more speed in T10, or are you holding back because of the wall? I noticed that's one area where I thought you can carry more speed than me.

I went to Sonoma for my second time last Nov and my best was 2:04:51.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Thanks for sharing the video! I like using Miata times as a benchmark for what I shoot for with my heavy (4200lbs) and low-hp (~190whp) wagon. The power to weight ratio is similar (although I think miatas still have a bit of a better ratio).

Do you think you can carry more speed in T10, or are you holding back because of the wall? I noticed that's one area where I thought you can carry more speed than me.

I went to Sonoma for my second time last Nov and my best was 2:04:51.

Absolutely. My min speed in t10 should be more like 90mph instead of 80mph

I had a huge off at t10 a while ago and am chasing the seconds elsewhere before I tackle t10

[CRRobert]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Two sets of Apex flow formed wheels with no knurling, does come on their forged wheels though. Contrast with Bimmerworld, all of theirs, flow formed and forged, come with knurling.

Ok, looks like their website says they have upgraded them to have the knurling now when I just looked, so not sure when it shifted over. Will have to double check mine.

Thanks for the info.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

J
Please take a look at this video from a recent test at Sonoma. Note that the coach’s time earlier in the day was 1:59 so I am 8+s off the pace.

Just glue that gas pedal on the floor man. Who ever needs to lift it in a Miata?

I think you know all the answers, like matching your coach's line and speed at all corners and braving up more (like we all need to). Nice that you have a coach and other drivers to get data from. I didn't have any reference like that so my reference was a GT3 video. The track looks lovely, hills and all the bumps and all that little bit of everything. T10 definitely looks dangerous!

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I’ve been toying with the idea of not running my car this year and renting it to friends and just using iracing. You can buy a 911 cup for like $20. Haha

Even cheap w2w added up. Lol.

Negative ghost rider. Lol! No way you’ll do that.

I told my wife at the end of 2019, I’d be taking 2020 off until May. I’m getting ready to do my second race of 2020 next weekend.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Negative ghost rider. Lol! No way you’ll do that.

I told my wife at the end of 2019, I’d be taking 2020 off until May. I’m getting ready to do my second race of 2020 next weekend.

Yea, I have egg on my face from posting that BS.

Did testing in Jan, another test coming up next week, signed up for NASA norcal season opening in March, and a drift school that’s also in March.

At least I am using IRacing, like I posted

[MyFragileHalogen]

Great one.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by M2MGM

Anyone install a lightweight battery in their f8x for HPDE’s ? Couldn’t find one, but if there is already a thread discussing this...got a link ?

My F82 GTS has a lithium battery that is already pretty light. I'm pretty certain the regular F80/F82 also come with a lithium battery. I'm guessing the F87 comes with a regular lead-acid battery?

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by M2MGM

Yes....M2 has a VRLA AGM battery..same as f80/82 as far as I know....looking for a LW alternative.

Huh, maybe the F8x ZCP has the same lithium battery, the trickle charger I picked up had a lot of reviews from M3/M4 users.

[ment4t]

All F8x have lithium batteries!
(although I am willing to be proven wrong)

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by M2MGM

Yes....M2 has a VRLA AGM battery..same as f80/82 as far as I know....looking for a LW alternative.

https://braillebattery.com/products/i48cx

I was looking into that for my p-car. Not super interesting in paying $5k for the oem motorsport version

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

https://braillebattery.com/products/i48cx

I was looking into that for my p-car. Not super interesting in paying $5k for the oem motorsport version

https://earthxbatteries.com/ could be another option. Local manufacturer for me in Colorado.

[aswy6]

Hey guys, figured that instead of making a whole new thread, i will just ask here. Getting ready to do my second track day at Ridge Motorsports park on April 11th here in Pacific Northwest and wondering if my PSS tires will last 6 sessions (20 minutes each). Please let me know if i should just get new tires with camber plates or run my second ever track day like this and then get camber plates and new tires after!
Picture where you see a piece of while car is rear tire.
Thank you

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Hey guys, figured that instead of making a whole new thread, i will just ask here. Getting ready to do my second track day at Ridge Motorsports park on April 11th here in Pacific Northwest and wondering if my PSS tires will last 6 sessions (20 minutes each). Please let me know if i should just get new tires with camber plates or run my second ever track day like this and then get camber plates and new tires after!
Picture where you see a piece of while car is rear tire.
Thank you

I've never been to ridge but these tires look good. I can't see any premature outer wear looking at them on my iPhone. Rears will last longer than the fronts. My MPSS lasted 3 auto-X's and 2 track days (ACS and Big Willow) before the shoulders were toast.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Hey guys, figured that instead of making a whole new thread, i will just ask here. Getting ready to do my second track day at Ridge Motorsports park on April 11th here in Pacific Northwest and wondering if my PSS tires will last 6 sessions (20 minutes each). Please let me know if i should just get new tires with camber plates or run my second ever track day like this and then get camber plates and new tires after!
Picture where you see a piece of while car is rear tire.
Thank you

That's still fine

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That's still fine

Thank you for reply! What about wet conditions?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Thank you for reply! What about wet conditions?

They look good.