Does anyone run Dinan Coilover Kit with Ground Control camber plates?

[TTGator]

EDIT: Changed thread title for new direction of help needed

I need to find the Dinan spring dimensions for the springs that come with their Coilover conversion kits. I called them and the guy I talked to didn't know if they could provide them (or even knew them), but would get back to me. Anyone here know?

The reason for needing to know is that with the Ground Control camber plates installed, the Dinan spring (being shorter than stock) rests on the spring perch when the car is raised and still has an inch or more of slack on the top (where it normally contacts the GC plate when not being lifted). This causes my bearings to separate every time I lift the car and it does not seat nicely (usually) when I put it back on the ground.

To elevate this, the only suggest that GC offers is to buy a "helper spring" that goes between the spring perch and the Dinan spring to help hold enough tension to not allow the base plate to separate from the top plate when lifted. In order to order the helper springs, they need to know the dimension of the Dinan spring because there is a piece that attaches the helper spring to the Dinan spring. Whew. I learned a lot about suspension components over the last few weeks because of issues I had with these GC camber plates!

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by TTGator

I need to find the Dinan spring dimensions for the springs that come with their Coilover conversion kits. I called them and the guy I talked to didn't know if they could provide them (or even knew them), but would get back to me. Anyone here know?

The reason for needing to know is that with the Ground Control camber plates installed, the Dinan spring (being shorter than stock) rests on the spring perch when the car is raised and still has an inch or more of slack on the top (where it normally contacts the GC plate when not being lifted). This causes my bearings to separate every time I lift the car and it does not seat nicely (usually) when I put it back on the ground.

To elevate this, the only suggest that GC offers is to buy a "helper spring" that goes between the spring perch and the Dinan spring to help hold enough tension to not allow the base plate to separate from the top plate when lifted. In order to order the helper springs, they need to know the dimension of the Dinan spring because there is a piece that attaches the helper spring to the Dinan spring. Whew. I learned a lot about suspension components over the last few weeks because of issues I had with these GC camber plates!

Dinan springs mate with OEM Strut plates (tapered design), you won't find helper springs for these as they're more suited for 60-70mm springs.

[TTGator]

So why have I never seen anywhere that the Dinan coilover kit simply isn't compatible with Ground Control's camber plate? I consider when the plate will separate when not under load (either lifting the vehicle or large bumps while driving) to be a non-starter.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by TTGator

So why have I never seen anywhere that the Dinan coilover kit simply isn't compatible with Ground Control's camber plate? I consider when the plate will separate when not under load (either lifting the vehicle or large bumps while driving) to be a non-starter.

You'll need to talk to Ground Control directly, this isn't a Dinan issue. The camber plates should remain intact when the wheel is off the ground, or are not assembled correctly - missing parts. A helper spring will simply keep a small amount of preload available - nothing more.

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

You'll need to talk to Ground Control directly, this isn't a Dinan issue. The camber plates should remain intact when the wheel is off the ground, or are not assembled correctly - missing parts. A helper spring will simply keep a small amount of preload available - nothing more.

I did talk to Ground Control.

First, here is what Dinan said about the spring dimensions for anyone actually finding them useful:

Spring is D100-0800. There are a few diameters:
· The top diameter (where it meets the guide support) is 3.80” I.D.
· The body diameter is 6.10” O.D.
· The bottom diameter (where it meets the adjustable perch) is 2.56” I.D.

Second, GC (after sending them an email with the above dimensions as well as your first response to this post) said:

"Unfortunately, that what I was thinking too. Your best be now would be to convert over to smaller coilover springs."

I replied back: "So Ground Control camber plates are just not compatible with the Dinan coilover kit? I’ve heard of people using this combo before, have they just not noticed what I have?"

GC response: "Our plates are compatible with the springs. We cannot control how the Dinan springs perform with our plates though, since we cannot control the springs quality and shape. The Dinan springs are the same diameter as the OEM spring and the OEM springs are what we model our plate to fit."

My reply: "But when at the proper/recommended height, the Dinan springs are not tall enough to keep the GC pieces together when not under load. I consider this not being compatible since there seems to be no way to correct this. Am I missing a way to make them work together? You suggested a different set of springs as my solution, seeming to indicate the incompatibility?"

So... I'm still trying to figure out if there is a way to make my current components work together or not. I bought the car with Dinan and GC parts already installed, as an aside.

[tom @ eas]

Non-traditional solution would be to install a helper on the bottom of the spring (usually installed on top), making adjustments for the stack height (compressed height) of the helper spring.

We've installed GC plates on sleeve kits before (both Dinan and KW) and never encountered the problems you're describing. Or simply make the switch to true coilovers.

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Non-traditional solution would be to install a helper on the bottom of the spring (usually installed on top), making adjustments for the stack height (compressed height) of the helper spring.

We've installed GC plates on sleeve kits before (both Dinan and KW) and never encountered the problems you're describing. Or simply make the switch to true coilovers.

Yeah, the idea was a helper spring on the bottom of the stack. But GC said they only have 2.5 and 2.75(? or something like that) pieces that attach the helper spring to the main spring, and it wouldn't fit the Dinan spring.

On the ones you have installed, how does the bottom red plate stay attached to the top red plate if the spring is not tall enough to keep pressure on the bottom plate when not under load? For me, the yellow bearing between the two plates separates and the bottom red plate comes down and rests on the top of the spring/boot cover. I made a video the first time I noticed something was wrong. In this video, the bearing turned out to be completely broken because the previous owner installed it incorrectly. (He used bolts that were too long and they pierced the top of the bearing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMCdHB8HVTc

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by TTGator

Yeah, the idea was a helper spring on the bottom of the stack. But GC said they only have 2.5 and 2.75(? or something like that) pieces that attach the helper spring to the main spring, and it wouldn't fit the Dinan spring.

On the ones you have installed, how does the bottom red plate stay attached to the top red plate if the spring is not tall enough to keep pressure on the bottom plate when not under load? For me, the yellow bearing between the two plates separates and the bottom red plate comes down and rests on the top of the spring/boot cover. I made a video the first time I noticed something was wrong. In this video, the bearing turned out to be completely broken because the previous owner installed it incorrectly. (He used bolts that were too long and they pierced the top of the bearing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMCdHB8HVTc

You're seeing this since the Dinan springs are shorter than OEM.

Its not an issue since the vehicle never sees that type of travel while driving, unless you're lifting it off the ground like in your video.

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

You're seeing this since the Dinan springs are shorter than OEM.

Its not an issue since the vehicle never sees that type of travel while driving, unless you're lifting it off the ground like in your video.

Yes I understand it’s happening because the Dinan spring is shorter than OEM. Are you telling me this is normal? It’s normal for the bearing to come apart and be exposed and the spring to be loose every time I put my car on a lift, and for it to not seat fully until I drive at the right angle/speed/bump etc until it violently snaps back together?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by TTGator

Yes I understand it’s happening because the Dinan spring is shorter than OEM. Are you telling me this is normal? It’s normal for the bearing to come apart and be exposed and the spring to be loose every time I put my car on a lift, and for it to not seat fully until I drive at the right angle/speed/bump etc until it violently snaps back together?

No, you said yourself the bearing was damaged from the previous owner. Take it to a local shop where they can diagnose and replace what's needed.

Without the car present, there's not much more to help with.

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

No, you said yourself the bearing was damaged from the previous owner. Take it to a local shop where they can diagnose and replace what's needed.

Without the car present, there's not much more to help with.

The bearing has already been replaced at a local shop and their “solution” was to raise the perch until the spring held the plate in place. But this of course raises my ride height much higher than I prefer. Hence why I was looking for a helper spring. Which there isn’t one. Which leads me in a circle back to Dinan springs don’t work with this unless it’s SUPPOSED to separate when lifted.

As for the video, even though the bearing is broken in it, after fixing the bearing and reassembling, it does the exact same thing when lifter now.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by TTGator

The bearing has already been replaced at a local shop and their “solution” was to raise the purch until the spring held the plate in place. But this of course raises my ride height much higher than I prefer. Hence why I was looking for a helper spring. Which there isn’t one. Which leads me in a circle back to Dinan springs don’t work with this unless it’s SUPPOSED to separate when lifted.

As for the video, even though the bearing is broken in it, after fixing the bearing and reassembling, it does the exact same thing when lifter now.

Camber plates & helper springs will typically raise height (adding stack height), true coilovers typically have enough range in which this isn't an issue and can be adjusted out. Again, the car doesn't see this extreme amount of travel unless the wheel is lifted off the ground (jacked up or on a lift).

Either raise the perch, find a helper spring that's long enough or look into true coilovers.

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Camber plates & helper springs will typically raise height (adding stack height), true coilovers typically have enough range in which this isn't an issue and can be adjusted out. Again, the car doesn't see this extreme amount of travel unless the wheel is lifted off the ground (jacked up or on a lift).

Either raise the perch, find a helper spring that's long enough or look into true coilovers.

So I can’t help but hear the following from you: Dinan kit is not compatible with GC camber plates.

[SD ///M4]

I've had Ground Control camber plates and the Dinan "High Performance Coilover Springs" (really just HAS) on my 2016 M4 for almost 2.5 years.

I regularly jack up the car from each side to change tires and/or brake pads for autocross/track events. It's also been on a chassis lift many times. The camber plates and springs were installed by a local independent that specializes in BMWs with lots of experience doing suspension work. I have the car at the Dinan-recommended 0.5" drop.

I've never had the problem you described.

P.S. Did you remove the link to the video that tom@eas referred to?

[TTGator]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I've had Ground Control camber plates and the Dinan "High Performance Coilover Springs" (really just HAS) on my 2016 M4 for almost 2.5 years.

I regularly jack up the car from each side to change tires and/or brake pads for autocross/track events. It's also been on a chassis lift many times. The camber plates and springs were installed by a local independent that specializes in BMWs with lots of experience doing suspension work. I have the car at the Dinan-recommended 0.5" drop.

I've never had the problem you described.

P.S. Did you remove the link to the video that tom@eas referred to?

No, the video is still there

[silverstar335]

I have the BMW M HAS springs and just ordered a set of Ground Control camber plates, am I going to experience a similar problem?

[TTGator]

Probably not since your HAS probably has helper springs

[Cycle Pilot]

So, I have an M2C (same Dinan kit as the F80) and I'm running into the same issue. I adjusted the perches to take the slack out of the springs but now my ride height isn't lowered that much. If I lower the car, the springs have too much slack and the bearing falls out of the camber plate. I live in Sacramento, so I'm going to make a trip to Ground Control and see if they have any solutions. I'll report back.