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      01-20-2014, 05:34 PM   #1
myzmak
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The Bimmerpost review on the M235i has useful info on EPS

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=936660

The systems seems to have passed this test, anyway. I would assume whatever the M3/M4 have will be at least as good as this, so....well, here is some actual review/data to throw into the mix.

(also a bit of a plus for the sound too....which, obviously, is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER. )
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      01-20-2014, 06:06 PM   #2
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Very cool thanks for posting.
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      01-20-2014, 07:06 PM   #3
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Nice read!
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      01-21-2014, 09:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=936660

The systems seems to have passed this test, anyway. I would assume whatever the M3/M4 have will be at least as good as this, so....well, here is some actual review/data to throw into the mix.

(also a bit of a plus for the sound too....which, obviously, is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER. )
Top Gear slightly less joyous on the steering:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/b...rive-2014-1-18
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      01-21-2014, 10:12 AM   #5
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Steering is a tough thing to tune, and EPS only makes it more-so, especially since it is a technology that is still young and is changing quickly.

I remember when the first E92 M3 press reports came out, some reviewers panned the steering. In fact, I recall some that said it was worse than the E90 3 Series with sport package. Over time it became something of a non-issue, but the point is, we have to be careful reading too much into the M235i reports. As I recall it, M Division employees have said in interviews that they targeted a lot of development effort at the steering of the car. It is very important, after all. Let's hope they got it right. My bet is that they have.
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      01-21-2014, 10:14 AM   #6
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Anyone who leaves the throttle on Sport+ on the track, doesn't really know what theyr're talking about... IMO. It's WAY to twitchy and sensitive even on the NA S65. No way it's the right setting on a boosted car.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
Top Gear slightly less joyous on the steering:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/b...rive-2014-1-18
Where?

Quote:
But didn't you eventually find the odd crack in the M135i's aura of perfection?

Yup, when we gave it pasting on really corkscrewing roads, it started to heave about and the steering got a bit hazy. But the M235i cuts through that fog.
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      01-21-2014, 10:30 AM   #8
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Surprised at how heavy it is. 3500 lbs? Sheesh, I thought it would be substantially lighter than the 3 series, perhaps somewhere in M4 range given it's a smaller car (3300lbs).
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      01-21-2014, 10:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Steering is a tough thing to tune, and EPS only makes it more-so, especially since it is a technology that is still young and is changing quickly.

I remember when the first E92 M3 press reports came out, some reviewers panned the steering. In fact, I recall some that said it was worse than the E90 3 Series with sport package. Over time it became something of a non-issue, but the point is, we have to be careful reading too much into the M235i reports. As I recall it, M Division employees have said in interviews that they targeted a lot of development effort at the steering of the car. It is very important, after all. Let's hope they got it right. My bet is that they have.
Reading through BMW engineer's quotes they said that the EPS system gives them a common and consistent platform to tune. And that tuning a hydraulic system makes them account for more degrees of change like cold temperatures (which affects steering feel).
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      01-21-2014, 10:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Surprised at how heavy it is. 3500 lbs? Sheesh, I thought it would be substantially lighter than the 3 series, perhaps somewhere in M4 range given it's a smaller car (3300lbs).
I would treat this with a high degree of skepticism unless/until you know which standard is being used for the quoted weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister2d View Post
Reading through BMW engineer's quotes they said that the EPS system gives them a common and consistent platform to tune. And that tuning a hydraulic system makes them account for more degrees of change like cold temperatures (which affects steering feel).
No doubt this is a good thing. It's still a new area of technology though, so I'm sure it has presented its share of challenges to them (as it has to other BMW engineers, and those at other companies as well). Like I say, I think we will see that they got it right (991 level of steering performance or better).
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      01-21-2014, 11:04 AM   #11
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I will remain highly skeptic of the steering until I've driven the new M3, the M235i review didn't do much to lower my concerns. It's obvious the reviewer doesn't find it best in EPS class or overall better than the E9X HPS. It's important to me, it's pretty much the only potential deal breaker left with all the info we have now and I will not let anyone else's opinion decide. It's just to important for the overall enjoyment of the car in daily driving. On the track EPS filtered and effortless feel works fine but it also need to feel alive during my daily commute.

I accept and expect turbo lag, ricer sound and modest high rpm excitement and they are not deal breakers. I like the look enough inside and out. It's pretty much down to steering. Regarding options I'm looking forward to test the MT and the active M suspension before closing my order. Could be tight with a planned end of July delivery if cars don't show up until June for test drives.
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      01-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister2d View Post
Where?
Here:

Quote:
Blimey, is there anything this car can't do, short of bringing world peace?

OK, here's the laundry list: the brakes could do with more initial bite. The steering doesn't give much feel, so you're relying on the (generous) seat-of-pants end of things to understand what's going on down at the road. And, while it's a lot better-looking than the old 1-series Coupe it still isn't the prettiest car on the road. People who want to wear their car as much as drive it will still have to go for a 4-series. And yes, its diplomatic skills are at the very least unproven.
Agree with mkoesel that this is a different car not (as we are told) designed around the new steering like M3/M4.

Still, just thought it might provide some useful info to a forum that is quite full of people guessing (without knowing) that the F80 will either be the greatest car ever or the complete ruination of the M brand.
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      01-21-2014, 11:54 AM   #13
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I missed that part.
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      01-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I would treat this with a high degree of skepticism unless/until you know which standard is being used for the quoted weight.
True... But he did mention that you could tell the car was heavy. I forget the exact quote, but that's what I got from reading that section.

My whole thought about the M235 was that it would be much lighter and tossable than the 3 series. This really doesn't seem to be the case, but then again it's just one reviewer's subjective opinion.
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      01-21-2014, 12:07 PM   #15
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I'm going to be fine with the EPS on the M3. 100% sure it will be light years better than the car it's replacing that has EPS in it. So, I have no choice but to be bullish on it.
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      01-21-2014, 12:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister2d View Post
I'm going to be fine with the EPS on the M3. 100% sure it will be light years better than the car it's replacing that has EPS in it. So, I have no choice but to be bullish on it.
The car it replaces has HPS. I'm optimistic but concerned about it and once you have owned a BMW EPS car and found that it's not up to par for your preferences you would be a fool to not be cautious.
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      01-21-2014, 12:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The car it replaces has HPS. I'm optimistic but concerned about it and once you have owned a BMW EPS car and found that it's not up to par for your preferences you would be a fool to not be cautious.

It's really subjective. My EPS 335i replaced my most recent HPS E9X M3, and I don't find fault with the 335i's steering. It's accurate, weighted nicely for the intended mode, and doesn't make me miss HPS. In a blind test 9 out of 10 people wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway (..assuming the EPS car was in Sport, the tires on both cars were equal, etc.). I'd bet on that!

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 01-21-2014 at 12:27 PM..
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      01-21-2014, 12:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It's really subjective. My EPS 335i replaced my HPS E9X M3's, and I don't find fault with the 335i.
Of course it's subjective and it's a subject discussed ad nauseum. If you know you love current available BMW EPS steering as in the F30 you should be able to be highly confident you'll love the F80's steering but if you don't love current BMW EPS offerings caution seems prudent.
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      01-21-2014, 12:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The car it replaces has HPS. I'm optimistic but concerned about it and once you have owned a BMW EPS car and found that it's not up to par for your preferences you would be a fool to not be cautious.
Nope the car it's replacing is a Chevy Sonic (has EPS). I wasn't clear. Watch who you call a fool though.
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      01-21-2014, 12:24 PM   #20
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Nope the car it's replacing is a Chevy Sonic (has EPS). I wasn't clear. Watch who you call a fool though.
Multiple misunderstandings. I didn't mean you were a fool. I meant if you like me have owned a BMW EPS car and found the steering sub standard you(I) would be a fool to not be cautious. Sorry for the misunderstandings, no insult intended it was a way to explain why I'm cautious. I do not like current BMW EPS offerings.
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      01-21-2014, 12:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Multiple misunderstandings. I didn't mean you were a fool. I meant if you like me have owned a BMW EPS car and found the steering sub standard you(I) would be a fool to not be cautious. Sorry for the misunderstandings, no insult intended it was a way to explain why I'm cautious. I do not like current BMW EPS offerings.
Which EPS car did you own?
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      01-21-2014, 12:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Which EPS car did you own?
2011 F10 535i.

I've also tracked 2014 640GC, 650GC, 650i and 650i vert. I've taken a 2013 X3 for a road trip etc. All EPS cars.
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