Just Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[JS919]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

I would go by what CanAutM3 says he is usually right. Guy has knowledge beyond yours
and mine.

I'm not disputing CanAutM3's knowledge in the slightest. I would think that a German engineer would give a more accurate weight rather than a range. From what I know of engineers and particularly Germans, is they like to be very accurate and concise. I read the article he linked prior to my reply. I'm assuming that it is the source of his knowledge on this subject. Since I read the article as well, I would now venture to guess my knowledge is equal to his on this subject. You can vouch for your lack of knowledge all you like, but please don't vouch for mine. That I take offence to!

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by JS919

I'm not disputing CanAutM3's knowledge in the slightest. I would think that a German engineer would give a more accurate weight rather than a range. From what I know of engineers and particularly Germans, is they like to be very accurate and concise. I read the article he linked prior to my reply. I'm assuming that it is the source of his knowledge on this subject. Since I read the article as well, I would now venture to guess my knowledge is equal to his on this subject. You can vouch for your lack of knowledge all you like, but please don't vouch for mine. That I take offence to!

[JS919]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Rotors the size as found on ///M cars don't warp. Warped rotors is a myth. Brake shudder is more than likely caused by pad deposit on the rotors.

Iron rotor warp, that is not a myth. I won't argue about large iron rotors on light weight cars warping. I've never had it happen to me. I trust that you are correct in regards to ///M cars.
The point I was trying to make is I won't be replacing the rotors during the time period I own the car. Therefore the cost of replacing them is not a concern to me. Furthermore, I will go out on a limb and guess most of the people talking about how expensive these rotors are wouldn't need to replace them either.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JS919

Iron rotor warp, that is not a myth. I won't argue about large iron rotors on light weight cars warping. I've never had it happen to me. I trust that you are correct in regards to ///M cars.
The point I was trying to make is I won't be replacing the rotors during the time period I own the car. Therefore the cost of replacing them is not a concern to me. Furthermore, I will go out on a limb and guess most of the people talking about how expensive these rotors are wouldn't need to replace them either.

Two good reads:

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphi...ake_discs.html

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

[M GmbH]

That's a though one. I can get the E90 Brembo GT 380mm 6-pot Front kit for $3800 and the 4-pot Rear for $3200. That's not much under the CCB for the new F80. I'm sure the Brembo F80 kits will be close to the same price when they come out. The rotor replacement costs will be significantly lower than CCB. I think long term this is going to be a better choose & something you can upgrade over time.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M GmbH

That's a though one. I can get the E90 Brembo GT 380mm 6-pot Front kit for $3800 and the 4-pot Rear for $3200. That's not much under the CCB for the new F80. I'm sure the Brembo F80 kits will be close to the same price when they come out. The rotor replacement costs will be significantly lower than CCB. I think long term this is going to be a better choose & something you can upgrade over time.

The latest info tends to indicate that the stock iron rotors will be 380mm in front with 4 pot and 370mm with 2 pot rear. Is there really a need to upgrade with a BBK (not talking about CCB here)?

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by M GmbH

That's a though one. I can get the E90 Brembo GT 380mm 6-pot Front kit for $3800 and the 4-pot Rear for $3200. That's not much under the CCB for the new F80. I'm sure the Brembo F80 kits will be close to the same price when they come out. The rotor replacement costs will be significantly lower than CCB. I think long term this is going to be a better choose & something you can upgrade over time.

I don't get the logic 3800+3200=$7000 and Install. Plus CCB kit come with bigger brake reservoir. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't CCB on F80 390mm not 380mm?

[JS919]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Two good reads:

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphi...ake_discs.html

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

So I guess the next thing you're going to try to tell me is the F8X doesn't have a V6?

Of course, that was a joke.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JS919

So I guess the next thing you're going to try to tell me is the F8X doesn't have a V6?

If you insist it does, I will not argue with you

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

I don't get the logic 3800+3200=$7000 and Install. Plus CCB kit come with bigger brake reservoir. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't CCB on F80 390mm not 380mm?

Rumor from Autobild:

Originally Posted by Boss330

Can't vouch for the accuracy, but in Auto Bild Sportscars Magazine (February 2014 edition) they have the following brake sizes listed in the spec sheet:

Steel brakes:
380mm front / 370mm rear

CCB:
400mm front / 380mm rear

CCB requires 19" wheels according to the BMW configurators that are online at the moment.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Rumor from Autobild:

400mm

[JS919]

So not only do you get substantially more potential braking power, but it's also somewhere between 13.2 and 15.4 lbs lighter? How could you not get this on your new F8X? After all the discussion about the CCB package I'm more sold than ever. I would definitely consider a M4 with the only option being CCB (and the required 19" wheels).

Alpine white, anthracite cloth/leather seats, CCB, 19" black alloys, and manual tranny. Sounds good to me. You'd have something unique.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JS919

So not only do you get substantially more potential braking power, but it's also somewhere between 13.2 and 15.4 lbs lighter? How could you not get this on your new F8X? After all the discussion about the CCB package I'm more sold than ever. I would definitely consider a M4 with the only option being CCB (and the required 19" wheels).

Alpine white, anthracite cloth/leather seats, CCB, 19" black alloys, and manual tranny. Sounds good to me. You'd have something unique.

I guess it all depends what is the intended use for the car. In my case, my M4 will be a DD as well as a track car (18-20 days per season). The operating costs of CCBs at the track will more than likely be exorbitant and I don't believe they will offer a significant performance advantage (an advantage: yes; a significant one: no). So no business case for me.

I don't know if you had a chance to read the threads in the suspension/brake/chassis sub-forum. There are very good discussions and debates on this topic.

EDIT: I guess this thread was just moved in the said sub-forum.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by grant

As a Porsche track guy, I can confirm that. There is another thing worth considering that I have not read so far. Because the Carbon Brake package comes with bigger calipers (6-pot and 4-pot vs. 4-pot and 2-pot) and the rotor diameter and thickness is greater with the carbons, this will allow someone who options the carbon brakes to replace his rotors with much beefier iron/aluminum rotors. Replace rotors immediately and save the mint carbons for resale (with the car or separately) or wait til they're worn out - the more expensive route.

This is something that was commonly done on the 996 GT3 with PCCB's - nice advantage to have the larger hardware (and the difference here is much larger between stock and carbon setups than with the Porsche) when you replace with larger metal rotors. There will be larger aftermarket metal rotors (larger diameter and thicker) designed to replace the carbon rotors almost immediately upon release of the cars and having the larger rotors, brake pads and calipers will help shed a bunch more heat than stock ones.

I guess the big question here is figuring out if the stock iron setup will be sufficient. IMO, it will most likely be sufficient for street use. And my guess, based on my experience with the E92 and E46, is that it will also be sufficient for track use (with proper pads that is). Only time will tell if my guess is right.

The down side of what you are suggesting is the significant increase in unsprung and rotating weight of the bigger iron rotors coupled with the bigger calipers. If the stock iron setup is sufficient, I wouldn't want the detrimental effect of that added weight.

[consolidated]

CCB: huge rotors, look amazing, less dust, and look double F'ing amazing.

Or you get sad, tiny, go-kart, blue brakes and wife refuses to sleep w/you

It's that simple.

[KevN27]

You guys can argue all you want about performance, replacement cost, and what not. But i'm getting it for the Bling. You CAN'T argue the Blingness. The life time (at least mostly street driven) fact is an added bonus. Its well worth the 8k.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by KevN27

But i'm getting it for the Bling. You CAN'T argue the Blingness.

Originally Posted by consolidated

CCB: huge rotors, look amazing, less dust, and look double F'ing amazing.

Or you get sad, tiny, go-kart, blue brakes and wife refuses to sleep w/you

It's that simple.

Can't argue with those points

[jbraslins]

I get the bling. If I was baller enough and could spend 8k on brakes, I'd def get it.
But just like I never put BBKs on my E90, I don't think I want to invest that kind of cash (CCB or regular BBKs) into F80.

On top of that, my E90 with regular OEM brakes/rotors and some track pads + fluid did superbly at the track.

So for me, just not worth my $. I'd rather spend 8K on HPDEs/tires and wine n chees dinners Or steak and beer. Or even strippers for that matter Performance per $ is just not there for me, according to my personal scale.

Kick ass brakes though for sure.

[grant]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I guess the big question here is figuring out if the stock iron setup will be sufficient. IMO, it will most likely be sufficient for street use. And my guess, based on my experience with the E92 and E46, is that it will also be sufficient for track use (with proper pads that is). Only time will tell if my guess is right.

The down side of what you are suggesting is the significant increase in unsprung and rotating weight of the bigger iron rotors coupled with the bigger calipers. If the stock iron setup is sufficient, I wouldn't want the detrimental effect of that added weight.

You make good points, but my guess is that the stock brakes might be adequate with pads and fluid on the stock tires. Add R Comp tires and a tune and then you'll likely be limited to shorter sessions before fading (that drives me crazy). I have a tune on my Evo IX that gives a little more than stock hp and tq of the M4, I use track tires and I still vaporized the seals in my aftermarket Brembo 6-piston calipers with Pagid race pads and Brembo Type III rotors. I've never had a car with too much thermal reserve in the brakes, but too little is all too common.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Or you get sad, tiny, go-kart, blue brakes and wife refuses to sleep w/you

It's that simple.

Pfffft... I had a 4,100 lb Challenger SRT8 w/ stock 360F/350R mm Brembos and it was more than sufficient, even at the track.

And the gold calipers look like they should be on some hip hop Cutlass with donks...

[jackkk]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The latest info tends to indicate that the stock iron rotors will be 380mm in front with 4 pot and 370mm with 2 pot rear. Is there really a need to upgrade with a BBK (not talking about CCB here)?

If the size is that big, may be the way to go is to ger 6 pistons calipers on front and 4 pistons on rear on the stock rotors?
But this will add extra weight.
Do you know the thickness of the stock rotors? Mybe it is the same as for the M5 calipers or CCB Calipers.

I did SS break line, Ferodo DS2500 pads and break fluid (Motul DOT 5.1) on y stock breaks on my 1M (whitch weight is close to the weight of f8x) and could make only 1 fast lap on track (RS-3 tires). I tried to make 2 fast laps but on the second one I got the overheating of pads. So with more aggressive pads they will work better.

According to the rotor sizes, this stock breaks would work well with SS lines and better pads + race break fluid. But the CCB looks twise better than the stock and will try to install the M5 set up. - Could it be worse for the total car performance because of the weight? I'm planning to get Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires and forges wheels.
Tnx.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by jackkk

If the size is that big, may be the way to go is to ger 6 pistons calipers on front and 4 pistons on rear on the stock rotors?
But this will add extra weight.
Do you know the thickness of the stock rotors? Mybe it is the same as for the M5 calipers or CCB Calipers.

I did SS break line, Ferodo DS2500 pads and break fluid (Motul DOT 5.1) on y stock breaks on my 1M (whitch weight is close to the weight of f8x) and could make only 1 fast lap on track (RS-3 tires). I tried to make 2 fast laps but on the second one I got the overheating of pads. So with more aggressive pads they will work better.

According to the rotor sizes, this stock breaks would work well with SS lines and better pads + race break fluid. But the CCB looks twise better than the stock and will try to install the M5 set up. - Could it be worse for the total car performance because of the weight? I'm planning to get Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires and forges wheels.
Tnx.

1) ds2500 are not a race pad, but you seem to already know this
2) try Castrol SRF instead of motul, its possible your fade was due to fluid boiling
3) the OEM brakes on this car with the fixed caliper design should be much better
4) the OEM wheels are already forged
5) looks are personal, but I like the OEM brake kit. I think that with race pads and good fluid they will perform very very well.