Introducing the First Ever BMW M4 CS!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Thanks for the info. That 'adjustment' info went sub radar for me.

Quite puzzling that the M-DCT M4 weight was 'adjusted' with +3 kg while the 6MT M4 was adjusted with a whopping +18kg. So BMW adjusted both with extra weight narrowing down the difference to 25 kg instead of 40 kg.

Any sensible explanation for the +18 kg 'adjustment' ? Is the gear stick made of lead ? Lead pillow under the seat ? When I used to fly gliders in my teenager years I was required to put pillows filled with lead under my flight seat to increase the weight of the nose part of the plane (limiting the risk of stalling). Reason: back in the day my body was still, say, CSL or LWT. Over time my body has evolved to CS or vanilla 6MT. No need for lead pillows anymore, haha...

I think the "adjustment" simply stems from mis-quoted original figures.

That originally advertised 40kg weight penalty of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was a big gripe of mine when it was initially launched. I could not understand why the weight penalty doubled from the E9X when it was ~20kg. I think a 5kg increase makes more sense, with the 6MT on the F8X losing the oil cooler.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think the "adjustment" simply stems from mis-quoted original figures.
That originally advertised 40kg weight penalty of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was a big gripe of mine when it was initially launched. I could not understand why the weight penalty doubled from the E9X when it was ~20kg. I think a 5kg increase makes more sense, with the 6MT on the F8X losing the oil cooler.

Makes sense.

From lower weight to heavier weight:

• 1M (6MT) = 1495 kg
• M2 6MT = 1495 kg
• M4 GTS = 1510 kg
• M4 6MT = 1515 kg (initial quote: 1497kg)
• M2 DCT = 1520 kg
• M3 6MT = 1535 kg (initial quote: 1520kg)
• M4 DCT = 1540 kg (initial quote: 1537kg)
• M3 DCT = 1560 kg (initial quote: same)
• M4 CS (DCT) = 1580 kg
• M4 Conv 6MT = 1750 kg
• M4 Conv DCT = 1790 kg

The M4 CS didn't stand a single chance to get the 'CSL' badge: except for the M4 Convertible, it's the heaviest ///M car of the 1M/M2/M3/M4 portfolio, despite...

"One of the key ingredients in the supreme dynamic ability of the new BMW M4 CS is the rigorous application of lightweight design. The bonnet, roof, front splitter, gurney, rear diffuser and even the single-piece drive shaft consist of carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP). The result is a low kerb weight of just 1,580 kilograms (EU).
The weight of the door trim has also been minimised, featuring compacted natural fibres and surfacing with a classy carbon-fibre look. The lightweight door pull loops also enhance the sporting character of the new BMW M4 CS.
[...]
The extensive use of carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) ensures that the new BMW M4 CS is extremely light; indeed, its kerb weight is just 1,580 kilograms (acc. to EU, excl. driver). As well as the rear diffuser, large sections of the body are also made from CFRP. The bonnet, for example, is around 25 per cent lighter than that of the BMW M4 as a result. BMW’s many years of experience in the production of carbon-fibre components and carbon fibre-reinforced plastics has paid dividends with the new BMW M4 CS. Indeed, the CFRP roof is more than six kilograms lighter than a conventional metal item. Another benefit of this extremely light and yet highly robust composite material is the corresponding lowering of the car’s centre of gravity, which endows the BMW M4 CS with even more agile handling."

Don't dare to imagine the M4 CS weight figure if all those low weight parts would have been normal parts.

For the record: E46 M3 CSL (SMGII): 1385 kg. 195 kg less than the M4 CS.

[Wills2]

Personally I think the phrasing around the EU weight quoted is incorrect, it should say "inc" not "excl" the driver. As the EU weight includes not excludes the nominal 75kg.

It makes sense that the weight quoted is "EU" at 1580kg giving a weight of 1505kg excluding the nominal 75kg driver which is 35k lighter than the M4 DCT which also chimes with the quoted weight loss.

A quick check of BMW.DE shows that they quote the M4CS at 1580kg vs. the M4 DCT at 1615KG so it appears my suspicions are correct.

I'll also add that I'm now in love with this CS, it looks stunning and I want one in that lime rock grey with ceramics please!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Personally I think the phrasing around the EU weight quoted is incorrect, it should say "inc" not "excl" the driver. As the EU weight includes not excludes the nominal 75kg.
It makes sense that the weight quoted is "EU" at 1580kg giving a weight of 1505kg excluding the nominal 75kg driver which is 35k lighter than the M4 DCT which also chimes with the quoted weight loss.
A quick check of BMW.DE shows that they quote the M4CS at 1580kg vs. the M4 DCT at 1615KG so it appears my suspicions are correct.

Look at the M4 CS spec sheet: it quotes 1580 kg excluding driver or 1655 kg including driver:

[m4282]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Look at the M4 CS spec sheet: it quotes 1580 kg excluding driver or 1655 kg including driver:

Attachment 1610886

A comparison of weights (and other stuff) across the M3 generations


https://www.redline360.com/garage/bm...ate-comparison

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Makes sense.

From lower weight to heavier weight:

• 1M (6MT) = 1495 kg
• M2 6MT = 1495 kg
• M4 GTS = 1510 kg
• M4 6MT = 1515 kg (initial quote: 1497kg)
• M2 DCT = 1520 kg
• M3 6MT = 1535 kg (initial quote: 1520kg)
• M4 DCT = 1540 kg (initial quote: 1537kg)
• M3 DCT = 1560 kg (initial quote: same)
• M4 CS (DCT) = 1580 kg

The M4 CS didn't stand a single chance to get the 'CSL' badge: it's the heaviest ///M car of the 1M/M2/M3/M4 portfolio, despite...

"One of the key ingredients in the supreme dynamic ability of the new BMW M4 CS is the rigorous application of lightweight design. The bonnet, roof, front splitter, gurney, rear diffuser and even the single-piece drive shaft consist of carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP). The result is a low kerb weight of just 1,580 kilograms (EU).
The weight of the door trim has also been minimised, featuring compacted natural fibres and surfacing with a classy carbon-fibre look. The lightweight door pull loops also enhance the sporting character of the new BMW M4 CS.
[...]
The extensive use of carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) ensures that the new BMW M4 CS is extremely light; indeed, its kerb weight is just 1,580 kilograms (acc. to EU, excl. driver). As well as the rear diffuser, large sections of the body are also made from CFRP. The bonnet, for example, is around 25 per cent lighter than that of the BMW M4 as a result. BMW’s many years of experience in the production of carbon-fibre components and carbon fibre-reinforced plastics has paid dividends with the new BMW M4 CS. Indeed, the CFRP roof is more than six kilograms lighter than a conventional metal item. Another benefit of this extremely light and yet highly robust composite material is the corresponding lowering of the car’s centre of gravity, which endows the BMW M4 CS with even more agile handling."

Don't dare to imagine the M4 CS weight figure if all those low weight parts would have been normal parts.

For the record: E46 M3 CSL (SMGII): 1385 kg. 195 kg less than the M4 CS.

Note that the DIN weight figures you quoted are for bare bone models without a single FACTORY option. I highlight factory option because in the vast majority of countries, the local BMW distributors include a different combination of those "factory" options in what they offer as the "base" car in that local market. It is likely impossible to order a complete stripper that would meet the above weights anywhere in the world. For the CS (and GTS for that matter), those additional features are included from "the factory" and hence are part of the DIN weight. I am quite confident that an M4CS will in fact be lighter than a "base" M4 in any local market.

BTW, when AMS supertested the E46 CSL, they weighed it at 1421kg. That's still a 159kg difference. It's important to note that many elements used to lower the weight of the E46 CSL are now included in the base M4, hence making it quite difficult to shave even more weight down.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Personally I think the phrasing around the EU weight quoted is incorrect, it should say "inc" not "excl" the driver. As the EU weight includes not excludes the nominal 75kg.

It makes sense that the weight quoted is "EU" at 1580kg giving a weight of 1505kg excluding the nominal 75kg driver which is 35k lighter than the M4 DCT which also chimes with the quoted weight loss.

A quick check of BMW.DE shows that they quote the M4CS at 1580kg vs. the M4 DCT at 1615KG so it appears my suspicions are correct.

I'll also add that I'm now in love with this CS, it looks stunning and I want one in that lime rock grey with ceramics please!

Read my post above regarding weights. I think that is the most plausible answer.

While the CS was not love at first sight and not quite what I had wished for it to be, I am starting to like it more and more. Now the long wait to get my hands on one (a year more than expected )

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Look at the M4 CS spec sheet: it quotes 1580 kg excluding driver or 1655 kg including driver:

Attachment 1610886

In the US, good luck finding 75kg drivers!
Sodas and Big Macs...

[m4282]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

In the US, good luck finding 75kg drivers!
Sodas and Big Macs...

I need to starve to be 75kg

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

In the US, good luck finding 75kg drivers!
Sodas and Big Macs...

Originally Posted by m4282

I need to starve to be 75kg

My wife is CSL. I'm rather CS.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Note that the DIN weight figures you quoted are for bare bone models without a single FACTORY option.

Nevertheless, those are the figures quoted by BMW. If the M4 CS gets a 1580 kg quote, then we may consider that weight figure as an absolute minimum for a stripper, without eventual local market extras.

The M4 CS options list ain't released yet, but BMW got goodies in store to induce customers to signing a bigger check than the €117K stripper base price. Already mentioned in the M4 CS press release:

• "The BMW M4 CS is optionally available with BMW M carbon ceramic brakes."
• "Higher-profile sports tyres can be ordered as an option."
• "The optional M Alcantara steering wheel is covered with ultra-grippy, anthracite-coloured Alcantara in the finest M tradition."
• "Adaptive LED Headlights including BMW Selective Beam (dazzle-free high beam assistant) can be ordered as an option."
• "The intelligent BMW ConnectedDrive Services are also available as an option, as is the BMW M Laptimer app"
• "Plus, almost all of the myriad other options available for the BMW M4 can also be specified for the M4 CS."

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Look at the M4 CS spec sheet: it quotes 1580 kg excluding driver or 1655 kg including driver:

Attachment 1610886

But that is at odds with the official German BMW website, they are quoting EU numbers and quote the CS at 1580kg, just like they quote my M3 DCT at 1635KG (that's the EU weight inc driver)

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Read my post above regarding weights. I think that is the most plausible answer.

While the CS was not love at first sight and not quite what I had wished for it to be, I am starting to like it more and more. Now the long wait to get my hands on one (a year more than expected )

I remain to be convinced, looking at the EU weights quoted on the German BMW website all to EU inc driver.

It doesn't add up, the M4 CS is 20KG heavier than my M3 DCT? M4 is lighter to start off with then add the carbon bonnet and light weight interior and that makes it 20kg heavier than the M3 and 40KG heavier than the M4 DCT.

As for the CS yes it's fantastic, I look at it like this:

I love my civic M3, the CP is better still and the CS will be better than CP, so it will be great.

I don't have 100k for it though but enjoy yours when it comes.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Nevertheless, those are the figures quoted by BMW. If the M4 CS gets a 1580 kg quote, then we may consider that weight figure as an absolute minimum for a stripper, without eventual local market extras.

The M4 CS options list ain't released yet, but BMW got goodies in store to induce customers to signing a bigger check than the €117K stripper base price. Already mentioned in the M4 CS press release:

• "The BMW M4 CS is optionally available with BMW M carbon ceramic brakes."
• "Higher-profile sports tyres can be ordered as an option."
• "The optional M Alcantara steering wheel is covered with ultra-grippy, anthracite-coloured Alcantara in the finest M tradition."
• "Adaptive LED Headlights including BMW Selective Beam (dazzle-free high beam assistant) can be ordered as an option."
• "The intelligent BMW ConnectedDrive Services are also available as an option, as is the BMW M Laptimer app"
• "Plus, almost all of the myriad other options available for the BMW M4 can also be specified for the M4 CS."

You are missing my point. The 1540kg DIN weight of the M4 you quote is a theoretical weight and is completely elusive. No "stripper" M4 in world weighs that.

1540kg for a barebones DCT M4 is with manual seats, no inflatable seat side bolster or lumbar support, the completely basic radio (the one below the HiFi version that sits below the Harman Kardon one), no Nav, no floor mats, the full manual HVAC (the one below the auto single zone in the CS), etc... Like I said, you will not find one anywhere in the world.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I remain to be convinced, looking at the EU weights quoted on the German BMW website all to EU inc driver.

It doesn't add up, the M4 CS is 20KG heavier than my M3 DCT? M4 is lighter to start off with then add the carbon bonnet and light weight interior and that makes it 20kg heavier than the M3 and 40KG heavier than the M4 DCT.

Your M3 DCT does not weigh 1560kg

[RobC2]

Originally Posted by adc

I look at it from a slightly different perspective - when you get into a car like this with a more barebones interior, or a half cage or fixed carbon seats, even though it is marginally less comfortable it puts you in a different frame of mind about driving even before you start the engine.

At least that's the effect on me.

I agree with this. I don't have a GT3 or anything like that, but I have an S2000 and it is pretty bare-bones. I know what I am getting into by deciding to take it somewhere instead of my M3 and enjoy it for what it has to offer.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by m3pilot

I said the same thing. 2014 991 TT...

I'd rather be in that though...Sure no car seats for kids, but F it, ultimate married man bit kids don't matter car. By the time I'll be in the market, it'll be a 2020 911 turbo (and I'll be 45, ie 2025 when I buy it).

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

IIRC, the development of the 991 GT3 started when Porsche was still an independent company. So maybe Porsche could not afford the effect of increased emmisions/fuel economy of a manual GT3 on its fleet average. Porsche now being part of VW since mid-2012, gives them much more leeway in terms of total fleet average. Maybe that is helping them with offering manuals again.

I don't think that was the reason...

If Aston Martin can do it, Porsche can...even back in 2012

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/2/2...ineup-7737884/

I believe after they saw the 997 GT3/RS used value soared 30-100% since the release of 991.1 GT3 (PDK only), they know there is a market niche for the 6MT and wants that share. The GT4 was a test bed thing (hence the competitive pricing) and the success of the GT4 cements that business case.

[CanAutM3]

Back on topic:

[te37]

Ooooh GTS people are gonna be mad.

But it looks like I will be buying a cs hood and set of wheels for my f80!

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Back on topic:

Does the CS have the same Sports exhaust that's on the Competition Package?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

Does the CS have the same Sports exhaust that's on the Competition Package?

That's what I gather from the press release. Only the tips (single wall of the CS) are different.