Chris Harris reviews the W205 C63 (also Car & Driver, Motor Authority, etc.)

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I mentioned the Black Series variant in response to the notion of a M3 Competition Package, which will certainly be priced above the standard F8Xs.

are you serious?

Black series 125k
Zcp package ~ 2500 dollars on top of a 63k car

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

are you serious?

Black series 125k
Zcp package ~ 2500 dollars on top of a 63k car

Did I say they'd be priced the same?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Did I say they'd be priced the same?

Please man. That comparison has no validity and makes no sense

And yeah, you sort of did in your post I quoted.

I mean, frick it, let's compare a brz to a 991 gt3. They're both cars and both cost money, am I right?

[evanescent03]

there are things about the AMG interior that I really like but also things that are a little "meh" (mouse thing mostly) but the M interior has nothing that I really dislike. sitting "too high" for someone as small as Chris is also concerns me.. I'm 6'3" and sitting in the car with a helmet on would be a necessity ... would need to test-fit.

exterior looks okay, more of a "bankers" car than something aggressive. rear end is growing on me but still not a real fan of it. I think this color makes it look even more muted, but the color itself is sharp. the center-lock (style...?) wheels are nice looking. front end is attractive but not nearly as eye catching as the f80. some people may be looking for a sleeper and the C63 def nails that angle.

I don't think many people have ever chosen an m3 due to its sound ... ever ... people have their favorites from the M3 generations but compared to RS4 or c63 I don't think that's ever been the BMW strong suit. i enjoy a nice sound but wouldn't buy a car based solely on that. it seems like the engine also performs very well while being efficient, which is great!

I really want to test drive one. I think the exterior would keep me from buying one for now.. maybe an LCI will be better but I won't hold my breath... the interior seems like something I COULD ultimately prefer over the BMW, but the driving experience itself is what would be the tipping point for sure.

seems like a great car... just if it were a little more exciting looking. I think if I wanted a fancier/more grown up car, I would go e63 ...

[Alex07M3]

Looks better in white!

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Please man. That comparison has no validity and makes no sense

And yeah, you sort of did in your post I quoted.

I mean, frick it, let's compare a brz to a 991 gt3. They're both cars and both cost money, am I right?

Then why are we still talking about it? Someone said that the M3 Competition Package could be even better than the standard F8Xs and the W205.

I merely mentioned that the Black Series will be available for someone that wants an even more hardcore version of the W205. It's not my fault that the performance of the Black Series will be so beyond the performance of the standard cars that it doesn't warrant mentioning, in your eyes.

Chris Harris compared the last E9X M3 GTS against the C63 Black Series.

What an idiot (referring to Harris) for even bringing the more expensive Black Series into that discussion.

I'm sorry that it's not affordable for some but I don't set the pricing. If you want to continue trying to attack me personally, take it to PM.

In sum, I never said that the Competition Pack F8X is the equivalent to the BS or that pricing would be similar. But there will likely be special edition F8Xs that have pricing above the standard cars and above the ZCP.

[Vinsanity12]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I appreciate the support.

I've always been complimentary of the F8X. Both here and elsewhere. Same goes for the E9X. I have several friends here that drive F8Xs. Any discussion of the W205 I've kept in the proper forum.

I will never, ever apologize for liking more than one car or one brand. I'm a BMW M enthusiast and an AMG enthusiast but above all else, a car enthusiast.

It's tragic that a few people become so fanatical that they leave the realm of technical discussion and make ad hominem attacks. That won't be tolerated here. Not by me or any of the other moderators.

I am with you Ybbiz. You are a good poster and I agree 100%.

I have a 2013 F10 M5 and I love it. My lease is up in Aug and I strongly considered the M4. While I know the two cars are not in the same class I love the brutal power of the Twin Turbo V8. When I read about the C63s it seemed to fit my need for neck jerking speed and a beastly sound better than the M4 would.

I will never understand the Message board police that come around and tell us that we shouldn't be here discussing any cars but Bmw. Isn't this the Versus section? If you don't like hearing about other cars why would you visit this forum?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity12

I am with you Ybbiz. You are a good poster and I agree 100%.

I have a 2013 F10 M5 and I love it. My lease is up in Aug and I strongly considered the M4. While I know the two cars are not in the same class I love the brutal power of the Twin Turbo V8. When I read about the C63s it seemed to fit my need for neck jerking speed and a beastly sound better than the M4 would.

I will never understand the Message board police that come around and tell us that we shouldn't be here discussing any cars but Bmw. Isn't this the Versus section? If you don't like hearing about other cars why would you visit this forum?

Thanks man. I truly appreciate the kind words.

The comical thing is that I will likely own an F8X at some point (and a W205 as well). Both cars have attributes I like/dislike. I just don't feel the need to tear down other cars to prop up whatever purchase I made. I'd rather appreciate them both for their respective strengths and weaknesses.

On other boards (which I won't reference by name as my only concern here is this community), the F8X gets slammed for sounding like a "lawnmower" and for having "Active Sound." And I go to great lengths explaining that the car sounds very purposeful and aggressive in person and that there is no way that one could differentiate "real sound" from "Active Sound."

[Stevens21234]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

In sum, I never said that the Competition Pack F8X is the equivalent to the BS or that pricing would be similar. But there will likely be special edition F8Xs that have pricing above the standard cars and above the ZCP.

I dont get it because again the gts m3 is in the same price point ballpark as the mb black series. You mentioned the black series is mb's answer to the competition pack which is not the case.

[CanAutM3]

That's the engine I had wished for in the F8X

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Stevens21234

I dont get it because again the gts m3 is in the same price point ballpark as the mb black series. You mentioned the black series is mb's answer to the competition pack which is not the case.

The ZCP is not the equivalent to the BS.

I'll say this for the final time here, the point of mentioning the BS was to point out that, irrespective of price, there will be more dedicated performance versions of the W205.

That's it. You want to discuss it some more? Shoot me a PM.

[8600RPM]

Game over bmw. Timing didn't allow me to wait for this car so I'll stick iylt out for 2.5 years with my f80 but I'll be anxiously waiting to dump it for a new c63.

Honestly giys, when am wins in handling and steering, it's game over as they always have had more potent engines.

Bmw, needed to go turbo v8 to be competitive and they botched the sound.

Bmw really is as behind this new c63 as Lexus new rcf is behind the m3

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The ZCP is not the equivalent to the BS.

I'll say this for the final time here, the point of mentioning the BS was to point out that, irrespective of price, there will be more dedicated performance versions of the W205.

That's it. You want to discuss it some more? Shoot me a PM.

Listen, you make many good points here, and have a seemingly fairly balanced opinion. But bringing up the Black Series in response to the ZCP was a stupid argument. Let it go. You can't get them all right.

ZCP is equivalent to the S, not the Black.


Even so, I think even the M4 GTS will be down quite a bit on HP compared to the C63S. That engine is a monster, and it's engineered for a LOT more. What did they say, it's essentially two of the CLA45 engines stuck together? And that it could probably match the power of twice the CLA engine.....

[hellrotm]

Powerplant is far superior to whats in the M3.

Not a huge fan of the sedan styling. Hoping the coupe gets a more aggressive treatment.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Game over bmw. Timing didn't allow me to wait for this car so I'll stick iylt out for 2.5 years with my f80 but I'll be anxiously waiting to dump it for a new c63.

Honestly giys, when am wins in handling and steering, it's game over as they always have had more potent engines.

Bmw, needed to go turbo v8 to be competitive and they botched the sound.

Bmw really is as behind this new c63 as Lexus new rcf is behind the m3

lol the M3 weighs 500 lbs less and will likely have the better chassis, but yeah the m3 is far behind the c63. Where has it been said that it has better handling? Motor authority's preview even said the M3 is like a surgeon's scalpel in comparison. Have fun loathing your car

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Game over bmw. Timing didn't allow me to wait for this car so I'll stick iylt out for 2.5 years with my f80 but I'll be anxiously waiting to dump it for a new c63.

Honestly giys, when am wins in handling and steering, it's game over as they always have had more potent engines.

Bmw, needed to go turbo v8 to be competitive and they botched the sound.

Bmw really is as behind this new c63 as Lexus new rcf is behind the m3

Sorry, but I don't think so. I didn't get that from Harris about the suspension. Not at all. A very good one, yes. But hands down better? No way.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

In sum, I never said that the Competition Pack F8X is the equivalent to the BS or that pricing would be similar. But there will likely be special edition F8Xs that have pricing above the standard cars and above the ZCP.

Sigh. No one is "attacking" you. This is the internet man, it's not that serious.

You made a silly comparison, in my opinion. I shared my thoughts on the car because, well, idk, this is a forum in which people can share positive and negative opinions on any car.

Btw, that video shows a c63 black vs an m3 gts. Which is also over 100k and is a direct competitor to a c63 black

You cant take people disagreeing with you? Feel free to ignore my comments then

[8600RPM]

I'll agree the styling goes to m3 by far but heck I don't buy the car for styling (within reason) . I'm shocked st how far ahead amg killed the m3 this generation. Wow.

I notice Kenny is super defensive in every thread lately. Usually insecurity so continuing to feed it will only ignite further buyers remorse

[ybbiz34]

And on-topic, another review:

Motor Trend:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...adbpr=25383000

Transmission:

"This epic thrust is routed aft through AMG's Speedshift MCT seven-speed automatic, as the GT's twin-clutch transaxle could not be packaged in this sedan. There's no torque converter, and locking the launch clutch makes shifts feel as quick and crisp as those of the twin-clutch when driving in the sportier Dynamic Select modes. Conversely, slipping this clutch smooths shifts when in Comfort mode.

4MATIC all-wheel drive will not be offered, but a limited-slip differential helps make the most of the available grip, and S models get electronic control to further enhance handling and differentiate the Dynamic Select modes. Between the added power, suspension mods, and E-Diff, AMG says to expect lap times about a second faster on a 1-minute-plus track such as Hockenheim."




Brakes/Ride/Steering:

"Soon it became clear that these steel stoppers never disappoint and that (miraculously) this electrified steering rack was communicating all I needed to know about how hard the front end was biting into the turns via the thick-rimmed, flat-bottom steering wheel. The sport seat held me firmly enough to feel at one with the car, and the sharp new color graphics on the AMG-designed head-up display informed me of speed and redline proximity without taking my eyes off the braking-zone cones.

The old C63 had softer springs and taller bump-stops that provided a progressive spring rate change in hard cornering. This one features stiffer springs and shorter bump stops, resulting in slightly more linear and predictable behavior in the tightest corners."

Conclusion:

"I left the track in a base C63 and was struck by how civilized the ride quality remains, even with the stiffer springs. [T]he exhaust seems just right -- quiet enough in Comfort mode (drowned out as it is by the Michelin Pilots), super engaging in Sport+ mode.

Smart money says the S will outsell the base, and indeed if I were faced with the choice, the (as yet unknown but presumed to be $10,000) upcharge would probably seem worth it for the E-Diff, better brakes, 180-mph speed-limiter (155 is standard), Race mode programming, and minor interior and exterior styling spiffs (especially the Dynamica suede accented sport steering wheel)."

[Needsdecaf]

Harris's review has left me no more or less attracted to the C63 than before. About the only thing that it moved me on is that the gearbox isn't the piece of crap it was before. Good.

Personally, I really am disappointed in the lack of aggression in the styling. Especially given the lairy looks of the cars in the past. It's going to be tough to tell it apart from a C450 AMG or even a C400 Sport, honestly. The interior is overall a bit more upscale than the F8X, but the gauges are lame and the screen certainly looks tacked on (driven the current C). It's also quite a bit tighter than the F80, about the same size in the back as the E90. Not a boon for those buying the sedan.

The engine is a peach, and this car should be stupid fast in a straight line. It'll likely be the better tourer as well.

Very compelling package, it'll sell well. And probably win some comparos too, just on the engine note alone. I suspect it'll acquit itself handing wise against the M3, but more of a GTR feel vs a 991 GT3 type feel for the BMW.

Exciting times to be in the market.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Powerplant is far superior to whats in the M3.

Not a huge fan of the sedan styling. Hoping the coupe gets a more aggressive treatment.

Agree here. Second gen in a row when Bmw is lagging behind mb on motors. I'd love to have that 4.0L in this car. Id take the old 6.2 over the s55 too most likely..., though I'm a big fan of all 3 engines.

Watch out for these on the street. Huge power to be unlocked no doubt. Plus mb doesn't seem to care as much about making their Ecu hard to break into. Better straight line platform no doubt

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Listen, you make many good points here, and have a seemingly fairly balanced opinion. But bringing up the Black Series in response to the ZCP was a stupid argument. Let it go. You can't get them all right.

ZCP is equivalent to the S, not the Black.


Even so, I think even the M4 GTS will be down quite a bit on HP compared to the C63S. That engine is a monster, and it's engineered for a LOT more. What did they say, it's essentially two of the CLA45 engines stuck together? And that it could probably match the power of twice the CLA engine.....

I agree. But again, I wasn't trying to bring it up to establish a direct correlation. It seems that's the way it was construed so refraining from that comment or wording it a vastly different way would've been better choices.

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Sigh. No one is "attacking" you. This is the internet man, it's not that serious.

You made a silly comparison, in my opinion. I shared my thoughts on the car because, well, idk, this is a forum in which people can share positive and negative opinions on any car.

Btw, that video shows a c63 black vs an m3 gts. Which is also over 100k and is a direct competitor to a c63 black

You cant take people disagreeing with you? Feel free to ignore my comments then

I can definitely take it. In my day job, I have people disagreeing with me on a daily basis, oftentimes in front of a judge. Which is a tiny bit more stressful. It's just done with a bit more tact in that setting. The disagreement goes to the point, not the person.

It just seemed to me that you were responding to me in a condescending manner (e.g., asking why not compare a BRZ to a 911). And twisting my words a bit. I really try to be as polite as possible here as I view everyone as customers/consumers first and foremost.