Storm Chasing Jonas in my M3 - Feast your eyes

rahrah · 01-24-2016, 08:14 AM

You my friend ... Is a bad ass

JTO24 · 01-24-2016, 08:24 AM

Awesome! I wanted to test out my snows yesterday but being right outside of Philly there was too much accumulation on the roads to get through. I'd be plowing the roads for people! We got close to 20" I'd say.

AlpineE92M3 · 01-24-2016, 08:34 AM

I'm sure you love those Nokian's because the Hakkapeliitta's are THE BEST SNOW TIRES OUT THERE! I love them on my '14 Legacy, its an animal with those tires on in the snow.

Blindside_137 · 01-24-2016, 08:41 AM

Ok so you are one of those idiots that goes out on the roads for no reason at all when you need to be staying off them.

And then on the other hand you are one of the few geniuses who realizes just how important snow tires are.

Good read! I don't know whether to smack you, or salute you.

Falafel Combo · 01-24-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Ok so you are one of those idiots that goes out on the roads for no reason at all when you need to be staying off them.

And then on the other hand you are one of the few geniuses who realizes just how important snow tires are.

Good read! I don't know whether to smack you, or salute you.

Well, we didn't have any travel bans in effect, so ... I was just playing by the rules.

New Haven didn't even have a parking ban until midnight last night.

If we all stay off the roads, who is supposed to be testing out snow tires in "real world" conditions? Sheesh ... can't you see that I'm doing all you bozo's sitting on your asses at home in the middle of a snow storm, a YUUUUGE favor?

Falafel Combo · 01-24-2016, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineE92M3

I'm sure you love those Nokian's because the Hakkapeliitta's are THE BEST SNOW TIRES OUT THERE! I love them on my '14 Legacy, its an animal with those tires on in the snow.

If a clown like me can make it through a snow storm, then pretty much everyone else should be good to go in Nokians. And they're perfectly fine in dry weather conditions. And practically no road noise. They are simply perfect for the purpose.

Falafel Combo · 01-24-2016, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTO24

Awesome! I wanted to test out my snows yesterday but being right outside of Philly there was too much accumulation on the roads to get through. I'd be plowing the roads for people! We got close to 20" I'd say.

Yeah, you guys got so much more snow than us, and much earlier in the day. We didn't get real accumulation until noon Saturday. And it just went on a steady clip throughout the day. Not nearly as intense as your neck of the woods.

Falafel Combo · 01-24-2016, 10:24 AM

So the bottom line from my experience, as far as driving a RWD on snow tires, in snowy conditions.

Would I recommend it? Yes, if you would like to enjoy your ///M car year round, and are able to control the urge to drive like you do on dry roads. It takes some discipline.

Is it superior to, or as good as an xDrive vehicle in all season tires, in comparable weather conditions? Hell. NO! Not even close.

So now that I got that out of the way, we can address RWD with snow tires as a compromise situation. Not ideal, but lets call it "adequate".

The Nokian tire performance was surely impressive, I must be honest. I had Michelin Alpins in the past on my e90, and they were far less capable. Kind of sucky, to be honest. But then again, it's hard to be so sure since we are talking about entirely different cars here, with 10 years (2006 330i vs 2015 M3) of drive train development, traction control systems, engineering and technology separating them.

But all that aside. I was impressed with the Nokian + f80 combination. Again, at no point did I feel threatened by the conditions, or get stuck and have to rock the car back and forth to get out. No shoveling either. Just really a smooth drive through otherwise brutal driving conditions.

Worthy of noting though is the vast difference in power delivery (and hence safety margin of error) with the car in Sport/+ (DSC off), vs comfort mode (DSC off).

I've tested this in many ways, as I've had all the time in the world to do so yesterday.

I was curious to compare: Accelerating from a stand still (say, at a traffic light). Accelerating from a roll (10-20 mph). Accelerating while changing lanes or maneuvering (fish tail). WOT from a roll.

Needless to say, you might kill yourself in such conditions DSC off and Sport/+, as there is very little time to react and counter the cars behavior. The torque surge is almost instantaneous, and ALL THERE.

In comfort mode , although still not a smooth build of power, seemed to be less abrupt, and at least allow time for driver input correction of course (counter steer, modulate throttle, ...). And I do realize that I am stating the obviously, but it was very rewarding to experience it and feel it for myself, with little-no interference from surface friction. Driving in such conditions is almost the same as having the car on a dyno. You give it just a tad bit too much power, and all of a sudden you have zero traction and can witness the change in revs at a much accelerated and instantaneous rate.

Having said all that, again, the f80 M3 on Nokians were both simply a blast in such harsh conditions. Braking distance, turn in grip, acceleration from a stand still, from a roll, acceleration form a full stop on an incline, braking distance, emergency braking, lane changes, all seemed to have been within acceptable or more than adequate levels.

The tire sizes I have on are 245/19/35 front, 255/19/40 rears. I am sure if I had smaller wheels (and maybe square setup), the performance would have likely been even much better.

Just some thoughts. If you have any question about these tires let me know, as I know they are not yet very popular.

Blksnowflake · 01-24-2016, 11:49 AM

Holy crap. Sure you weren't driving an STI with an M3 halloween costume on. That was a pretty impressive performance.
I will use this thread in the future, when someone asks about rear wheel drive in the snow.
Good post.

But eff that, so happy I don't have to deal with snow anymore, ever again(I'm a native NYer).

psuibmw · 01-24-2016, 12:07 PM

Nice pics

great to see u made it home safely, you took big risk but not sure how bad ur storm was

in my area it was bad, 32" so no matter what winter tires u have on, u can easily get stuck

: glad u made it

JTO24 · 01-24-2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Yeah, you guys got so much more snow than us, and much earlier in the day. We didn't get real accumulation until noon Saturday. And it just went on a steady clip throughout the day. Not nearly as intense as your neck of the woods.

Yup, too intense yesterday but I went out today and had some fun on the way to the gym

the roads were still pretty covered and traffic was still low volume so I did some snowkyo drifting. I'm very pleased with the behavior of the car in the snow.. I was concerned that all the low end torque and DCT would make it a handful but it was very mild mannered and controllable.

JSCO · 01-24-2016, 02:52 PM

amusing read.....pretty funny how you think someone running in that weather is nuts but you intentionally driving into a storm is perfectly fine....ha...that shot of the 95 is very eerie...thanks for sharing...

Falafel Combo · 01-24-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSCO

amusing read.....pretty funny how you think someone running in that weather is nuts but you intentionally driving into a storm is perfectly fine....ha...that shot of the 95 is very eerie...thanks for sharing...

Well I wouldn't be as upset if he had some kind of dedicated snow running shoes on. And maybe a locking knee differential. And a bit of traction control feedback mechanism.

But yeah, now that you point that out ... it's funny as hell!

turbologist · 01-24-2016, 07:16 PM

Haha. Good read man!

You have some balls to be out there. I was questioning whether I should've been out there in our full size Range Rover.

Good to see you and the car made it back in one piece. Be safe...

C-ARchitect · 01-24-2016, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

That's nuts! How many inches did you guys end up getting around there? Geez!!!!

Around 24-30 inches

trey100 · 01-24-2016, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

So the bottom line from my experience, as far as driving a RWD on snow tires, in snowy conditions.

Would I recommend it? Yes, if you would like to enjoy your ///M car year round, and are able to control the urge to drive like you do on dry roads. It takes some discipline.

Is it superior to, or as good as an xDrive vehicle in all season tires, in comparable weather conditions? Hell. NO! Not even close.

So now that I got that out of the way, we can address RWD with snow tires as a compromise situation. Not ideal, but lets call it "adequate".

The Nokian tire performance was surely impressive, I must be honest. I had Michelin Alpins in the past on my e90, and they were far less capable. Kind of sucky, to be honest. But then again, it's hard to be so sure since we are talking about entirely different cars here, with 10 years (2006 330i vs 2015 M3) of drive train development, traction control systems, engineering and technology separating them.

But all that aside. I was impressed with the Nokian + f80 combination. Again, at no point did I feel threatened by the conditions, or get stuck and have to rock the car back and forth to get out. No shoveling either. Just really a smooth drive through otherwise brutal driving conditions.

Worthy of noting though is the vast difference in power delivery (and hence safety margin of error) with the car in Sport/+ (DSC off), vs comfort mode (DSC off).

I've tested this in many ways, as I've had all the time in the world to do so yesterday.

I was curious to compare: Accelerating from a stand still (say, at a traffic light). Accelerating from a roll (10-20 mph). Accelerating while changing lanes or maneuvering (fish tail). WOT from a roll.

Needless to say, you might kill yourself in such conditions DSC off and Sport/+, as there is very little time to react and counter the cars behavior. The torque surge is almost instantaneous, and ALL THERE.

In comfort mode , although still not a smooth build of power, seemed to be less abrupt, and at least allow time for driver input correction of course (counter steer, modulate throttle, ...). And I do realize that I am stating the obviously, but it was very rewarding to experience it and feel it for myself, with little-no interference from surface friction. Driving in such conditions is almost the same as having the car on a dyno. You give it just a tad bit too much power, and all of a sudden you have zero traction and can witness the change in revs at a much accelerated and instantaneous rate.

Having said all that, again, the f80 M3 on Nokians were both simply a blast in such harsh conditions. Braking distance, turn in grip, acceleration from a stand still, from a roll, acceleration form a full stop on an incline, braking distance, emergency braking, lane changes, all seemed to have been within acceptable or more than adequate levels.

The tire sizes I have on are 245/19/35 front, 255/19/40 rears. I am sure if I had smaller wheels (and maybe square setup), the performance would have likely been even much better.

Just some thoughts. If you have any question about these tires let me know, as I know they are not yet very popular.

Thanks for the honest feedback on xdrive vs RWD. My xdrive with Conti DWS tires is fantastic. I went through some nasty stuff today plowing snow with my front end through tight streets. Car was unbelievable and inspired so much confidence. I of course drive carefully.

I'm in the same boat as you as I will attempt to go year round with an M (if I can hopefully get in one when my lease is up). I've always had a backup car when I've had RWD cars. This thread is exactly what I needed!

SYT_Shadow · 01-26-2016, 10:35 AM

Good for you for braving the winter conditions and going out in your M

I've been winter driving my E46M for years right by you with frequent trips to Canada and on PA4 Michelins which are high performance winters and less geared to deep snow.

As you say Mr Falafel, driving on a highway completely alone is eerie. During several blizzards on the way to/from Canada I am the only car in sight once it's late... not a very nice feeling

RWD cars drive surprisingly well with winter tires, after all that is the only thing connecting you to the road. The main issue you have are ramps, as in your car will not go up much of a ramp. Other than that, turnings and braking, no issues!

LSD equipped RWD cars are a blast in winter!

Sedan_Clan · 01-26-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-ARchitect

Jonas turned my M4 into a 5 series GT and my abarth into a literal snowball.

#ThanksJonas

That is nuts!!!

Bahn360Photo · 01-26-2016, 10:44 AM

thats a brave trip, i drove around town in pirelli sottozero series 2 and they were great, i got weird look from people that i didnt get stuck on every light

BlackCobra08 · 01-26-2016, 10:45 AM

Good story. Those roads are about the same as I've been driving my M3 around this winter here in MN. the f80 is pretty damn impressive in the snow for RWD, and I used to have a blue wrx just like the one you took a pic of. I'm rolling on pirelli sottozeros on 18"

64-bit · 01-26-2016, 10:46 AM

Got to ask... Have you done XPell or any other clear bra on your car?

What I hate the most about the winter is the salt and sand rocks flying on your bumper and hood. (Unless it is a lease, then who cares)

NOITALL · 01-26-2016, 10:47 AM

10/10. Light, enjoyable reading. You must be a cool guy.
Thanks for this!

By the way, I am running the same tires this year... Needless to say, I drive anytime anywhere. And, like you, I look for places where people dare not go. In my RWD. Never stuck.

I also have an F25. I like my RWD better. I've had snow up to the centre of the wheels, pushing it with the bumper...

Cheers!

01-24-2016, 08:14 AM	#45
rahrah /// csl 85 Rep 67 Posts Drives: e46 m3 csl Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	You my friend ... Is a bad ass
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01-24-2016, 08:24 AM	#46
JTO24 never could compete with Lloyd Braun 5275 Rep 5,378 Posts Drives: 2022 G80 M3 6MT Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Jersey iTrader: (7)	Awesome! I wanted to test out my snows yesterday but being right outside of Philly there was too much accumulation on the roads to get through. I'd be plowing the roads for people! We got close to 20" I'd say.
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01-24-2016, 08:34 AM	#47
AlpineE92M3 Currently Driving 269 Rep 1,426 Posts Drives: BPM tuned '13 AW ZCP E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Rochester, NY iTrader: (9) Garage List 2013 BMW E92 M3 [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	I'm sure you love those Nokian's because the Hakkapeliitta's are THE BEST SNOW TIRES OUT THERE! I love them on my '14 Legacy, its an animal with those tires on in the snow.
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01-24-2016, 08:41 AM	#48
Blindside_137 Lieutenant General 6708 Rep 10,598 Posts Drives: 2011.75 SSII E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC iTrader: (2)	Ok so you are one of those idiots that goes out on the roads for no reason at all when you need to be staying off them. And then on the other hand you are one of the few geniuses who realizes just how important snow tires are. Good read! I don't know whether to smack you, or salute you.
	Appreciate 1 Quote

01-24-2016, 10:24 AM	#52
Falafel Combo Banned 3773 Rep 6,673 Posts Drives: X5 xDrive50i Join Date: May 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (3)	So the bottom line from my experience, as far as driving a RWD on snow tires, in snowy conditions. Would I recommend it? Yes, if you would like to enjoy your ///M car year round, and are able to control the urge to drive like you do on dry roads. It takes some discipline. Is it superior to, or as good as an xDrive vehicle in all season tires, in comparable weather conditions? Hell. NO! Not even close. So now that I got that out of the way, we can address RWD with snow tires as a compromise situation. Not ideal, but lets call it "adequate". The Nokian tire performance was surely impressive, I must be honest. I had Michelin Alpins in the past on my e90, and they were far less capable. Kind of sucky, to be honest. But then again, it's hard to be so sure since we are talking about entirely different cars here, with 10 years (2006 330i vs 2015 M3) of drive train development, traction control systems, engineering and technology separating them. But all that aside. I was impressed with the Nokian + f80 combination. Again, at no point did I feel threatened by the conditions, or get stuck and have to rock the car back and forth to get out. No shoveling either. Just really a smooth drive through otherwise brutal driving conditions. Worthy of noting though is the vast difference in power delivery (and hence safety margin of error) with the car in Sport/+ (DSC off), vs comfort mode (DSC off). I've tested this in many ways, as I've had all the time in the world to do so yesterday. I was curious to compare: Accelerating from a stand still (say, at a traffic light). Accelerating from a roll (10-20 mph). Accelerating while changing lanes or maneuvering (fish tail). WOT from a roll. Needless to say, you might kill yourself in such conditions DSC off and Sport/+, as there is very little time to react and counter the cars behavior. The torque surge is almost instantaneous, and ALL THERE. In comfort mode , although still not a smooth build of power, seemed to be less abrupt, and at least allow time for driver input correction of course (counter steer, modulate throttle, ...). And I do realize that I am stating the obviously, but it was very rewarding to experience it and feel it for myself, with little-no interference from surface friction. Driving in such conditions is almost the same as having the car on a dyno. You give it just a tad bit too much power, and all of a sudden you have zero traction and can witness the change in revs at a much accelerated and instantaneous rate. Having said all that, again, the f80 M3 on Nokians were both simply a blast in such harsh conditions. Braking distance, turn in grip, acceleration from a stand still, from a roll, acceleration form a full stop on an incline, braking distance, emergency braking, lane changes, all seemed to have been within acceptable or more than adequate levels. The tire sizes I have on are 245/19/35 front, 255/19/40 rears. I am sure if I had smaller wheels (and maybe square setup), the performance would have likely been even much better. Just some thoughts. If you have any question about these tires let me know, as I know they are not yet very popular.
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01-24-2016, 11:49 AM	#53
Blksnowflake Mlightened 1852 Rep 2,242 Posts Drives: Yaz M3 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: TX iTrader: (1)	Holy crap. Sure you weren't driving an STI with an M3 halloween costume on. That was a pretty impressive performance. I will use this thread in the future, when someone asks about rear wheel drive in the snow. Good post. But eff that, so happy I don't have to deal with snow anymore, ever again(I'm a native NYer).
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01-24-2016, 12:07 PM	#54
psuibmw Brigadier General 3483 Rep 3,074 Posts Drives: G06/G20/F30/F15/F10/E90 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW 320xi [10.00] 2023 BMW M340 [9.75] 2022 BMW [10.00]	Nice pics great to see u made it home safely, you took big risk but not sure how bad ur storm was in my area it was bad, 32" so no matter what winter tires u have on, u can easily get stuck : glad u made it
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01-24-2016, 02:52 PM	#56
JSCO Brigadier General 533 Rep 3,717 Posts Drives: AMG GT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tampa iTrader: (4)	amusing read.....pretty funny how you think someone running in that weather is nuts but you intentionally driving into a storm is perfectly fine....ha...that shot of the 95 is very eerie...thanks for sharing...
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01-24-2016, 07:16 PM	#58
turbologist Emperor 30 Rep 427 Posts Drives: tricycle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NoVA iTrader: (0)	Haha. Good read man! You have some balls to be out there. I was questioning whether I should've been out there in our full size Range Rover. Good to see you and the car made it back in one piece. Be safe...
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01-26-2016, 10:35 AM	#61
SYT_Shadow ///M Powered for Life 11480 Rep 10,328 Posts Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (2)	Good for you for braving the winter conditions and going out in your M I've been winter driving my E46M for years right by you with frequent trips to Canada and on PA4 Michelins which are high performance winters and less geared to deep snow. As you say Mr Falafel, driving on a highway completely alone is eerie. During several blizzards on the way to/from Canada I am the only car in sight once it's late... not a very nice feeling RWD cars drive surprisingly well with winter tires, after all that is the only thing connecting you to the road. The main issue you have are ramps, as in your car will not go up much of a ramp. Other than that, turnings and braking, no issues! LSD equipped RWD cars are a blast in winter!
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01-26-2016, 10:44 AM	#63
Bahn360Photo Fitness Gene 1113 Rep 2,413 Posts Drives: 2018 M4 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: SoFlo iTrader: (2) Garage List 2006 bmw m5 [10.00] 2016 bmw z4 35is [8.33] 2000 bmw m5 [10.00] 2018 BMW M4 [10.00] 1987 BMW 325 Conver ... [10.00]	thats a brave trip, i drove around town in pirelli sottozero series 2 and they were great, i got weird look from people that i didnt get stuck on every light __________________ Effective 11 Min Home Workouts????? No equipment????? 20 years of experience Spartan Race winner PROtrainer! Click the link?? https://www.youtube.com/c/FitnessGene
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01-26-2016, 10:45 AM	#64
BlackCobra08 King Cobra 108 Rep 450 Posts Drives: incoming GTS 4.0 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: MN iTrader: (0)	Good story. Those roads are about the same as I've been driving my M3 around this winter here in MN. the f80 is pretty damn impressive in the snow for RWD, and I used to have a blue wrx just like the one you took a pic of. I'm rolling on pirelli sottozeros on 18"
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01-26-2016, 10:46 AM	#65
64-bit Major 309 Rep 1,086 Posts Drives: 19 Ford Raptor - On Order Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (1)	Got to ask... Have you done XPell or any other clear bra on your car? What I hate the most about the winter is the salt and sand rocks flying on your bumper and hood. (Unless it is a lease, then who cares) __________________ 2016 M3, Mineral White, SO Leather, MANUAL - ED 11/26/2015 2013 335i, Blue, M-Sport, Auto w/Sport Trans - ED 06/10/2013
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01-26-2016, 10:47 AM	#66
NOITALL Banned 158 Rep 687 Posts Drives: 4 wheels Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Interwebs iTrader: (0)	10/10. Light, enjoyable reading. You must be a cool guy. Thanks for this! By the way, I am running the same tires this year... Needless to say, I drive anytime anywhere. And, like you, I look for places where people dare not go. In my RWD. Never stuck. I also have an F25. I like my RWD better. I've had snow up to the centre of the wheels, pushing it with the bumper... Cheers!
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